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View Full Version : going from Full Spectrum to a "Full chinese" software setup... what can I expect?



Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 2:12 PM
Upgrading our shop soon with a nice UV digital flatbed, and looking to compliment that with a faster and higher power laser that we wont wear out in a matter of months.* The prices of the chinese 24x36 machines are tempting, but looking at the plugins and hoops to jump through, it looks like a lot more work for the same output. I plan on setting up the FS in my biz partner's house for overflow projects, and the big one comes to the main shop, so just swapping the Retina Engrave card is not much of an option.

Although, for a 3K machine, I might just buy a 1K card from them and go with that. best of both worlds. Money isnt there right now for a Trotec, as much as I would love one.






*2nd X axis on the Gen 5 full spectrum is visibly worn, replacing it with a hardened linear bearing setup.

Matt McCoy
12-23-2015, 2:23 PM
Can you still purchase a Retina Engrave card? I was under the impression that you could not.

Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 2:33 PM
After i typed that, I thought the same, and checked. Nope. Seems people caught on to the full size machines bing chinese rebrands with a different card and were doing the same thing. There is a gen 3 locally for sale, but their price has me thinking they might have chemical recreation going on.

Bert Kemp
12-23-2015, 3:07 PM
I had a FSL
and changed to a Rabbit USA Chinese Laser. Its uses laser cut 5.3 and really I had very little trouble making the switch. You just save your Corel designs as a dxf import them to laser cut and your good to go. No Big deal. It was a main concern of mine making the switch , but so many said hey its not a big deal so I did it and its not a big deal, and theres another plus side is that you'll get a much better laser machine in the swap.:)

Jerome Stanek
12-23-2015, 3:12 PM
He already has a full spectrum he would just have to order a replacement for the one he has

Bert Kemp
12-23-2015, 3:19 PM
and why pay 1500 bucks for a card to put in a Chinese laser when its easy enough to use the software that comes with the machine also FSL will want the other card back I'm sure.



He already has a full spectrum he would just have to order a replacement for the one he has

Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 3:38 PM
Bert, any issues with things like power clips or gradients, or rotated raster sections for engraving and then having a vector outline for cutting?

(although RetinaEngrave has no idea what to do with a powerclip)

Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 3:39 PM
and why pay 1500 bucks for a card to put in a Chinese laser when its easy enough to use the software that comes with the machine also FSL will want the other card back I'm sure.

Not haivng to learn another software and deal with 2 machines with different softwares would be nice. I might be the company owner, but there's just 2 of us, which puts most IT issues on me too.

Bert Kemp
12-23-2015, 3:57 PM
No problem with rastering and then vector cutting outline. I can change colors and settings for just about any combination. red full cut, blue outline cut green raster or how ever I want to set it up.
I haven't really done the other things you asked about but mabe someone else has. Remember I use Lasecut 5.3 not sure how other Chinese software works.:D




Bert, any issues with things like power clips or gradients, or rotated raster sections for engraving and then having a vector outline for cutting?

(although RetinaEngrave has no idea what to do with a powerclip)

Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 4:20 PM
Thats good to know. I looked at Rabbit, as they arent too far away. Sort of. But I am not sure if that location and possible US support is worth the $5K additional cost, before shipping, and without most accessories.

Julian Ashcroft
12-23-2015, 4:34 PM
My first Chinese laser came with LaserWorks v6, which is just about good enough to change design sizes and select colours before sending to the laser. My second larger laser came with software called Powercut which I had never heard of and still can't find much info about. At first I thought it was very limited, but after using it for a while I found it was actually very good and does its job well. I still do all my design using something else though. I suppose you will get used to whatever you end up with.

Bert Kemp
12-23-2015, 4:36 PM
I would Call Ray not email. Tell him what your looking for and get his best price. He has most machines in stock and parts for machines in stock and very good support. where R U located, if your very good with the machines and don't need US support then importing will save money altho I don't think its going to save you 5k on one of his machines.


Thats good to know. I looked at Rabbit, as they arent too far away. Sort of. But I am not sure if that location and possible US support is worth the $5K additional cost, before shipping, and without most accessories.

Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 4:44 PM
Just south of pittsburgh PA. Im not trying to be a cheapskate, just working in a limited budget. We are taking a loan right now to purchase a 40K Roland UV printer... so its not like we are afraid to get into it, but after working with lasers for a few years, i realise that most are the same parts, to different variations of quality. Where it really gets different is the big name machines, and the software.

My kingdom for Job control!

Bert Kemp
12-23-2015, 4:48 PM
Looking at the map your 4 hours from Ray you'll save a lot in shipping to pick it up your self



Just south of pittsburgh PA. Im not trying to be a cheapskate, just working in a limited budget. We are taking a loan right now to purchase a 40K Roland UV printer... so its not like we are afraid to get into it, but after working with lasers for a few years, i realise that most are the same parts, to different variations of quality. Where it really gets different is the big name machines, and the software.

My kingdom for Job control!

Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 4:54 PM
Cost to fuel the truck available that has room negates the savings, if my FIL lets me borrow it. I specialise in Jeep modifications, and most of them have not been known for massive cargo capacity ;)

thanks for the info guys, Im thinking we are going to hold and see what we can keep doing with the FSL, until I can get a few more quotes back.

Ross Moshinsky
12-23-2015, 5:18 PM
There is a pretty big difference in how you produce work with a "what you see is what you engrave" driver vs what you find in a Chinese laser. This image should illustrate the differences to some degree.

327781

Bryan Spiegel
12-23-2015, 5:36 PM
Im trying to wrap my head around what that would do to my current designs. Sounds like a nightmare.


There is a pretty big difference in how you produce work with a "what you see is what you engrave" driver vs what you find in a Chinese laser. This image should illustrate the differences to some degree.

327781

Bert Kemp
12-23-2015, 5:42 PM
if you wanted to make a simple design and send it to me in x5 or below I'll engrave and cut it to show you . Everything I did on my FSL I can do on this Rabbit

Jerome Stanek
12-23-2015, 6:46 PM
I had a FSL
and changed to a Rabbit USA Chinese Laser. Its uses laser cut 5.3 and really I had very little trouble making the switch. You just save your Corel designs as a dxf import them to laser cut and your good to go. No Big deal. It was a main concern of mine making the switch , but so many said hey its not a big deal so I did it and its not a big deal, and theres another plus side is that you'll get a much better laser machine in the swap.:)

One file that two lasers can use makes sense to me.

David Somers
12-24-2015, 12:00 AM
Bryan,

For what it is worth, my direct from China machine ran me $3600 for a 600x900 bed with about a 36 inch Z height, 80watt EFR tube, 2" lens and spare, 4" lens and spare and tube to hold it, spare chain for the drive, spare belts, spare mirror set, CW500 Chiller, blower, air pump, water pump. The equivalent machine from Rabbit Laser USA was around $10k. So your price guess is pretty good. I would still recommend Rabbit since you are a business, and I assume downtime is not good for you. Ray at Rabbit will be behind you, and as Bert has mentioned, has parts and spares and whatnot all in hand if you need them. And, for the extra cost he will be coming to your place of business to help you set up and learn the machine. The ONLY reason I did not order from Ray was it was just hard for me to justify the extra cost for how I intended to use the machine. And I was not sensitive to downtime either. Otherwise I would have ordered from Ray without any qualm. FWIW!

Dave

Jerome Stanek
12-24-2015, 7:27 AM
I had the same thing I ended up buying from Automation Technologies as Ray was twice as high and he wanted to deliver and set it up but I would have to wait 2 to 3 weeks for him to get to me.

Bryan Spiegel
12-29-2015, 9:27 AM
6K extra, at my current size, does not make sense. If there is downtime, I have Techshop with 3 speedy 300 machines that I can rent out, and they are 24 hour. For the extra cost, I could buy a corporate membership for 2 years and guarantee 2 people a 4 hour window reserved daily on a laser.

Kev Williams
12-29-2015, 11:52 AM
Bryan,

For what it is worth, my direct from China machine ran me $3600 for a 600x900 bed with about a 36 inch Z height,...

36" Z height? One of those 'portables' you can put on risers, or?

I cut a hole in the bottom of my 1300x900 Triumph so I could laser tall drawn aluminum boxes, and from the garage floor to as close as I can get my lens in focus is only 34"...!

Just curious! :)