Table Leg Joinery

[Ian Funk]

Hey guys I have an upcoming project and need some advice. I'm working with a client who is in to more modern looking pieces. I'm building him a desk and basically he wants it without any kind of apron or skirt. What is the best way to attach legs without using an apron? I thought about mortising directly into the table but it will probably only be about 1 1/4 inches thick. also maybe some hardware could be used in this situation? Any help or advice would be great thanks

[John T Barker]

If you can't convince the customer of the big strength advantage of an apron I would give the tenon into the top some consideration. A 1" deep tenon or through tenon is pretty strong. Stretchers would add to the strength. Hardware says "break" to me. A continuous lamination of some kind is pretty contemporary.
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The first one is pretty interesting as the leg is part of the top.

[Robert Engel]

If you can't convince him to let you make some gussets he's asking for trouble.

I wouldn't want to put my name on a table I know will be unstable.

[Dave Richards]

It sounds like your client wants something along the lines of a Mid-Century Modern piece. Tables and desks without aprons are common in that style and it works. Have a look at this link (https://www.tablelegs.com/Mid-Century-Modern.aspx) for some ideas. There are plates designed to attach legs that have a hanger bolt screwed into the top.

What does your client expect in the way of drawers on this desk?

[pat warner]

It's going to be squiggly no matter what the connection.
But to keep an accidental kick from breaking it off:
A shallow tenon with 2 steel x-dowels and machine screw through the top.

[glenn bradley]

As Dave points out, metal plates with legs screwed in using dowel screws were the general rule in this style. Look up Paul McCobb for examples of a fairly prolific designer of the time.

[Doug Hepler]

Ian

This is a very interesting and challenging question. I think John Barker is on the better track, depending on your practical considerations of time and money. If this client will pay (and wait) for it you could make a continuous lamination of top and legs. Hickory, oak or ash should bend enough to make the corners. Publications of the Forest Products Laboratory such as the Wood Handbook will provide details on bendability. I don't mean to get into design details too much, but just to make my suggestion clear: you could laminate, say, 2" wide by 1/8" thick strips. Twelve strips would give you a bit more than 1 1/2" thickness. These would form the front and back. You could notch the top six laminations to produce a 3/4" deep rabbet that would receive the top. I have never made such a table but it sounds like fun.

Another suggestion (that I have done) is to dovetail the table top into the top of the leg. If you can have a 1" thick top, I believe that this joint would be strong and durable enough in most hardwoods. The thicker the better.

Let us know what you decide

Doug

[Brian Holcombe]

A great deal of well made furniture from the mid-century includes stretchers they just tuck them under the table so that they're minimally noticed in use. Of course when you draw the table in plan you will see it.

Nearly every historical design, which does not include metal hardware, will have some additional bracing to a leg that attaches to a short skirted table. If you look at Ming furniture, you'll see that even with tapered dovetail connections and having the leg terminate in the top they would still add bracing in the form of a 'giant's arm' that would tuck under the table. Again barely noticeable outside of plan view.

Mortising alone is not likely to be successful. Clamp a piece of wood in your vise that is 28" long, use 1-1/4" of it in the vise then attempt to wiggle it.

You can't avoid, within reason, people abusing furniture. The first thing that someone did to my desk was hoist themselves up and sit in the center of it, right over the drawers. They got right back up in a hurry...but you just never know what's going to happen. So I like to build them strong enough to handle some mild stupidity.

[jack duren]

Can you use a sub frame to support the legs and then apply the top?

[Prashun Patel]

Consider side rails and a center stretcher

[Brian Henderson]

It sounds like your client wants something along the lines of a Mid-Century Modern piece. Tables and desks without aprons are common in that style and it works. Have a look at this link (https://www.tablelegs.com/Mid-Century-Modern.aspx) for some ideas. There are plates designed to attach legs that have a hanger bolt screwed into the top.

What does your client expect in the way of drawers on this desk?

That's what I was going to suggest. Barring that, you could put some threaded rod into the legs and bury a blind nut in the top. It isn't going to be as strong, but it will be invisible.

[Doug Hepler]

Guys,

Of course you can try to change the question if you don't know the answer. But sometimes the client (thinks) he knows what he wants and will walk if you can't make it. By the way, OP Ian said it's to be used as a desk, not a dining table.

Doug

[Prashun Patel]

And sometimes the client doesn't know what he doesn't know and appreciates alternate suggestions for the sake of a strong, well made product. Even on the few private clients I have had, all have appreciated alternate approach options. They pick what they want in the end but I and they both feel better exploring all options.

Ymmv

[Dave Richards]

Guys,

Of course you can try to change the question if you don't know the answer. But sometimes the client (thinks) he knows what he wants and will walk if you can't make it. By the way, OP Ian said it's to be used as a desk, not a dining table.

Doug

So, Doug, you already know exactly what the client wants? You know they don't want a desk like this maybe?
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5721/23876974705_f5e881e9af_m.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CnVJHF)

There are plenty of examples of desks without aprons.
:rolleyes:

[Doug Hepler]

Dave,

Interesting desk. Sorry if I was a little too blunt. No, of course I don't know what the client wants, or even what Ian wants, but I do know what Ian asked us.

Doug

[Brian Holcombe]

My experience has been similar to Prashun's, as the craftsman people will generally accept your input on the project.

[Stephen C Cunningham]

Perhaps something like this: http://g01.s.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1gD6sHVXXXXc8XXXXq6xXFXXXn/Hot-selling-metal-table-leg-brackets.jpg
A local fabricator should be able to whip something up in stainless, round or square. You could still mortise the leg with an open ended bracket.

[Randy Rose]

Here is perhaps a crude example of hardware with " bed bolts" . Admittedly it has a modest apron, ( can`t be seen when upright)

I assure you that these legs are 100% solid.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Another option might be for each leg to be in three parts, each a thin leg mortised into the top, with all three joined at the foot. This would allow strong rigid connection without any apron.

[Mark Wooden]

Threaded rod through the legs, threaded(possibly welded?) into a 3/8"steel plate that you mortise flush into the underside of the top. Make the plate long enough to attach two legs; install it parallel to the grain. Put the rods under tension and it should be pretty rigid. It's the method we use to make self standing 1/2 walls stiff enough to lean on and not move