Looking to burn...in quantity.

[John T Barker]

I have a place to sell some crafts so I am making up a list of things to make, large and small. I spotted wine barrel lid lazy susans and thought that would be perfect. (The catalog I spotted it in had it priced at $149.00 which had me laughing histerically, especially since the lid was described as French and the stamp said Napa Valley...hmmm?) I would like to sell them but don't see the point of doing one offs so I will do runs of a half dozen or so. I'd like to get a relatively inexpensive machine to do it...any recommendations? The lid is probably no more than 18" in diameter and I would like some lettering to follow the curve though not critical.

Thanks in advance.

[Bert Kemp]

The first thing I'd do is start reading the forum this question has been asked and answer at least a 1000 times . and its all here for your reading pleasure.

[Keith Winter]

I have a place to sell some crafts so I am making up a list of things to make, large and small. I spotted wine barrel lid lazy susans and thought that would be perfect. (The catalog I spotted it in had it priced at $149.00 which had me laughing histerically, especially since the lid was described as French and the stamp said Napa Valley...hmmm?) I would like to sell them but don't see the point of doing one offs so I will do runs of a half dozen or so. I'd like to get a relatively inexpensive machine to do it...any recommendations? The lid is probably no more than 18" in diameter and I would like some lettering to follow the curve though not critical.

Thanks in advance.

Retail is not that easy, it's really not just make it and they will come. Industry is littered with people who buy machines thinking they will be magic money makers, who are sorely disappointed when reality sets in after six months. Need to do your market research, write a business plan, then do research into how to do it. Searching Google and the forum is a great start for "how tos" as Bert said.

[John T Barker]

Retail is not that easy, it's really not just make it and they will come. Industry is littered with people who buy machines thinking they will be magic money makers, who are sorely disappointed when reality sets in after six months. Need to do your market research, write a business plan, then do research into how to do it. Searching Google and the forum is a great start for "how tos" as Bert said.

I have sold thousands of dollars of woodworking from rosary beads to grandfather clocks all without a business plan or market research. As I pointed out I have a place to sell my crafts and as for making it I think I can make a round piece of wood with my eyes closed. What I need to know is how to burn letters for a label efficiently and with a low investment. I was remiss in not putting up a picture.
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I don't mean to be rude but if you could answer the question asked I would appreciate it, if not, have a nice day. Thank you.

[John T Barker]

The first thing I'd do is start reading the forum this question has been asked and answer at least a 1000 times . and its all here for your reading pleasure.

What would I search? I am unfamiliar with the tools involved.

[Bob Davis - Sturgis SD]

John,

Burning wood, that's my thing so I will try to answer. I can't tell your location but if it's USA I would look for a Chinese machine with US support. Although I LOVE my Trotec 100 watt machine, I'm kinda toying with the idea of getting a Boss Laser for wood. That's because burning wood is a dirty business, the smoke is oily and sticky. A while back I posted some pictures of Jack Daniels running 6 lasers, all burning wood. The machines were all totally black like they'd been in a house fire, lol. It would kill me to see my Trotec like that.

Everyone here will suggest getting the most power you can afford. I'm sure you could mark wood with about any laser, but if you want to make a "serious" mark, I would think you would want 80 watts. It could be done with less, but it might take a lot more time. You will want to find a system that shoots air through the nozzle to blow smoke away from your lens. And finally, you won't want to cut corners on the exhaust system. There's lots of good info on here about exhaust setups.

If you get a laser you will soon discover a lot more uses than burning barrel lids.

Bob

[Keith Outten]

John,

On the blue menu bar at the top of every page you will see a search box. Click on the Advanced Search at the bottom of the box, it will provide a more comprehensive search of our archives.

Advanced Search (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/search.php)

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi John, lasering is pretty much like anything else, you get what you pay for. However, since your question is specifically about burning wood, the thing I would mention is that power is what you are looking for. You can buy a 45W machine, 80W, 100, 120W, etc. The higher the watts, the better for your example.

Wood takes a certain amount of speed and power to make a black mark. If you bought a 50W laser, it would leave a black mark, but it would be VERY VERY slow to do something as large as those pieces. You are talking 45-60 minutes of engraving time to get it that dark because you'd have to go so slow with that power to make the wood turn dark. Now, put 120W in the equation and you can run faster speeds with more power and get the same result as a lower wattage with slower speeds. In this case, you could buy the faster machine on the market and it wouldn't give you any real advantage because you can't run it at 100% speed and 100% power to get the results you want.

In your quest, I'd start looking for as much power as you can afford. It would certainly be over 100W. I would think something like 180W might be a good fit for this. Others will have to chime in. You lose things with a 180W tube, you lose the bottom end of doing delicate, detailed work to some degree, but sounds like that's not an issue. Also, 180W on a Western made machine is going to be crazy expensive, probably over $80,000. Going with the Chinese made machines, you could probably buy 6 or more of them for that price.

Hope that helps you start your journey of looking for a solution.

[Ted Calver]

I love projects that give me the excuse to buy an other cool machine, but have you considered other methods to give you the essence of wine barrel? I don't know about the cost of lasers but, for about 5k a CNC router could cut both the circle and slightly incise the lettering. A burnt wood stain inside the incised letters, run the top through the drum sander and you would have something very nice. Even cheaper, just cut a plain old stencil and use an appropriate color, or perhaps cutting a resist stencil and sandblasting the lettering?

[Ross Moshinsky]

My first recommendation is not to come on here not knowing what's involved in using a laser and then mocking the markup. Most of these markups are because they offer customization. Customization requires time and dealing with customers. Sometimes it's painless and sometimes it's not. The other thing to mention is just because someone lists a product for $150, it doesn't mean they are selling. They could sell 10 a year because most people think they are overpriced just like you. Maybe their real market value is $75 or less. Is that still profitable for you?

The second thing is any laser will mark wood. Which laser is best is covered above and in many many many previous posts.

The third thing mentioned in almost all of those posts is outsourcing the work. A Chinese laser from China costs about $5-6k I believe. The same laser from a US seller will cost around $8-10k. A US laser that will fit 18" round will cost around $20k. Looking at used machines will drop the price around $5-10k depending on all the usual considerations. So how many things would you have to sell to recover that initial $5-20k investment? This is why outsourcing is often very wise. Go buy Corel Draw and do all your own layouts. Send the layouts to a local laser engraver and let them engrave it. It will cut into your profits but it's worth it to gauge interest and viability.

[AL Ursich]

And lastly don't forget about Copyright.... Getting that "Cease and Desist" letter is a real kill joy... Having a laser may feel like your printing money but beware... The money you make off that sports logo won't cover the lawyer costs.... I saw a Vinyl shop in Philly about 12 years ago get smashed up and put in a dumpster after Harley got done with them. A lesson I will never forget.

Good Luck,

AL

[John T Barker]

And lastly don't forget about Copyright.... Getting that "Cease and Desist" letter is a real kill joy... Having a laser may feel like your printing money but beware... The money you make off that sports logo won't cover the lawyer costs.... I saw a Vinyl shop in Philly about 12 years ago get smashed up and put in a dumpster after Harley got done with them. A lesson I will never forget.

Good Luck,

AL

Thanks, I thought about that. I've looked for this in a google image search and see it is out there in many forms. Is it possible to copyright "Vin Rouge"? I see that many items like this are customized but I'm not looking to sell that. The seller I have sells a barn load of "crafty" items and I'm pretty sure this will fit right in.

[Kev Williams]

The fastest way to put black marks on wood is with a big fire and a branding iron...

[David Somers]

That was my thought too Kev. A branding iron would be relatively inexpensive to have made up. Low overhead, fast application, low tech. Easy to have new irons made as you need them. And if you are looking for a burned look like a wine barrel would have it doesn't get more authentic than this.

Good luck with this John!

Dave

[Bruce Clumpner]

From the sounds of your production idea, you need the biggest and baddest laser around, so you can crank through your lids... I'd suggest getting a Kern Laser. The table mounted unit would let you run several lids at a time, and their power offerings would let you select the best power to achieve the best burn. Just order one up, you won't be disappointed.

[Kev Williams]

The only problem with a big, bad Kern is the sky-high mfr. cost.
But if the end justifies the means, then by all means... ;)

[John T Barker]

The fastest way to put black marks on wood is with a big fire and a branding iron...

I gave that some thought but was frightened by the idea of fire hazard. I rent my shop in a big 18th century barn which also has a residence in it and adding another heat source (I use kerosene heaters) would probably scare my landlord a bit.

[Dan Hintz]

I gave that some thought but was frightened by the idea of fire hazard. I rent my shop in a big 18th century barn which also has a residence in it and adding another heat source (I use kerosene heaters) would probably scare my landlord a bit.

You may misunderstand how a laser works, then... they are a HUGE fire hazard, kept in check only by a careful operator. Personally, I would consider a branding iron safer as it absolutely requires an operator to be there, hands on, the entire time it is being used.

[Martin Boekers]

I gave that some thought but was frightened by the idea of fire hazard. I rent my shop in a big 18th century barn which also has a residence in it and adding another heat source (I use kerosene heaters) would probably scare my landlord a bit.

Lasers can be a tough sell to a landlord as they vaporize the material they are engraving... that means fumes... Neighbors usually aren't too happy with that... Adding a commercial ventilation system can double the cost of Chinese lasers.
Check on insurance too, many won't cover it or it will be expensive in a residential environment.... I understand this doesn't exactly answer your initial questions, but I feel it brings up a few more questions that you may want to explore
before investing in a machine.... Check local codes as far as running a laser... they will find out if you don't have proper permits... Are there any local "Maker Clubs" in your area? You may be able to join one and use their equipment.