I'm looking for a precise drill press

[Brian Sommers]

I want something with a X and Y vise with small adjustments.

I want something with at least a 4" quill travel.

I also want a table that can be turned with a crank on a ratchet system. not free sliding is what I have now and its a pain in the rear!

I thought maybe a milling machine, but I'm wanting to keep things under $1200 if I can, under a grand would even be better.

Recommendations please?

[Ben Rivel]

Dont think such a machine exists in your price range. Might have to save up and buy a mill.

[Peter Quinn]

Small used Bridgeport. I've see them go for $1200 without DRO and such. Takes a lot of effort to move and place, but it's really a pleasure to use one versus almost anything else.

[Peter Kelly]

I'd probably steer clear of a $1,200 Bridgeport J-Head. The condition of these is very hard to evaluate unless you are very experienced with one and you take the one you are looking at for a test drive. Decent, not totally clapped out ones are typically $2k and up w/o DRO.

That said, a Bridgeport is a great thing to have in the shop and would certainly meet with the OP's requirements listed above.

[Brian Sommers]

I could do more, money wise, its just going to take me longer to save up my money.

I'll look into a bridgeport J head.

[Brian Sommers]

That looks overkill to me.

anything for around $2500?

[John K Jordan]

A friend of mine bought two used Rong Fu mill-drills for $600 and they are heavy duty but don't take up space like a Bridgeport. I used his and it was great. A quick check shows even a new one is close to your budget.

I bought a small new mill from the Little Machine Shop for way less than your budget and it is quite accurate and with a precision xy table. I added a motor drive for the x direction which saves a lot of cranking. I forget what the vertical movement is but it is significant - it has a rack and pinion drive with dovetail ways.

I use mine to mill steel and softer metals, plastic, and wood. Made a nice branding iron yesterday.

The thing you need to decide is how much movement you need in the x and y directions. The larger mills and mill-drills usually have bigger tables.

JKJ

[Keith Weber]

What are you planning on using it for? My Bridgeport is the last machine in my shop that I would part with, but it would certainly be overkill if you were just using it for light drilling in wood.

You could buy an import (I can't believe I just said that) X-Y table for about $250-300 and mount it to your floor-mount drill press. That would leave you a huge budget to figure out a way to power the table lift. Just search around on YouTube. There's guys that have used everything from servo motors, to old drills, to bumper jacks to lift the table.

Just be aware that if you did venture down the route of a milling machine with the intent to mill steel and aluminum, that the machine will end up just being the initial investment. The accessories and tooling can easily add up to more than you pay for the machine.

[David Malicky]

+1 on a used Rong-Fu mill-drill. A new RF31 (round column) has 5" quill travel, $1400 new. Prior model (RF30) was similar. Quality is good (Taiwanese). Of course, a knee mill is great if you have the space and $.

For light duty, there is the Sieg X1 or X2 (sold by HF, Grizzly, many others): no quill but entire head moves similarly. Quality is fair, but probably ok just as a drill press. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIEG

[Ole Anderson]

Unless you are doing heavy steel milling, a small mill-drill should do the trick. I bought one years ago for milling aluminum and it works great. I was doing light production so I added a power screw feed and a heavy 5" vice. It also works good for holding my power pencil sharpener and my cabinet door templates! Privately branded for KBC Machinery here in MI, Taiwanese, 4.5" post, 5" quill travel. If you get something as HD as a Bridgeport or other knee mill, you will be talking to equipment riggers to move the beast.

Are you also asking for a rotating vice? Those can get pricey.

http://www.kbctools.com/products/MACHINERY/MILLING%20MACHINES/MANUAL%20MILLING%20MACHINES/2417.aspx
http://www.kbctools.com/default.aspx?page=item+detail&itemcode=8-251-006&catlist=12100&parent=1957

Here is a similar offering from Grizzly: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-with-Stand-8-x-29-Table-with-Powerfeed/G0760

[Brian Hood]

I was in your exact situation, wanted a much better 'drill press'.
There was a giant thread about this recently over at Yahoo Felder Owners group. Based on that, and after way too much agonizing over it I came to the conclusion that the stand-out value would be a used Rong Fu 30 or 31 clone from Craigs List. A used one without extras can be found for $1,000 in many areas. I was looking for a Jet JMD-18 because they might be better than other Chinese clones, the Rong Fu is made in Taiwon and said to be a better made machine, but who knows? I also believe that the best value in used is when you buy the best example with the most tooling because as has been stated above, expect to buy some tooling so why not buy it used with the machine in a package deal? The rule of thumb is you will pay as much for the tooling as you will for the mill/drill if you want to do precise work in metal, for example if you expect to work to a couple thou or better using a drill chuck that chuck will have to hold tolerance to about .0002 or better and that is a $500 Albrecht. A vise accurate to .0001 (Kurt) weighing about 70lbs is also a good idea, and another $500. And if you cruise over to DROPROS you may realize just how much you want an integrated 3 axis DRO.
I ended up paying $2,750 for an actual Rong Fu 31 and a pile of top line tooling and cutters, most of it US made. The chuck and vise mentioned above, the 3 axis DRO, a quick-change collet system (that originally cost more than the mill) and on and on. Could not be happier. Big surprise, the mill is 100% standard and not metric, clearly made for the NA market.
If you feel you'll be 80% wood then much less expensive tooling will work great. An excellent idea is to modify a Woodpecker drill press table with a wood bar on the bottom that you clamp in the vise and use that for wood, pull it off for metal.
You WILL find dozens of things your mill/drill will do on wood better than other tools, for work you can fit on the table. Mortice and tenon, dead easy. Little slots, small dados and rebates, perfect.
Best of luck

[glenn bradley]

I always eagerly follow these threads hoping for a new possibility. I wish you luck. I would never have let go of my 1940's Delta Milwaukee DP-200 if I had imagined that we would stop manufacturing decent drill presses. As others have said (and done), for decent bit control it seems you have to move to a mill. When you move to a mill you lose capacity.

I've got to assume there is just no money in making a decent drill press with a smooth, well controlled quill and a decent amount of swing. I would like to get my hands on a Grizzly G0748. Even at only a 15" swing, if it had controlled vertical quill slop (something that escapes Delta and Powermatic's high end offerings) I would sacrifice the reach and learn to work around it. Still . . . patiently . . . waiting ;-)

[Brian Hood]

Here is my setup showing the Woodpeckers table in the Kurt vise. The Albrecht chucks are on the table, the big one to the left and the 'sensative' small one on the right. The mill is so heavy and powerful you have no idea how much pressure it's putting on the drill, so for small drills you let the mill spin the chuck, the provide the down pressure by hand by sliding the chuck on a spring loaded shaft.
To the left of the big chuck are a couple tool holders with mills in them, they and the chuck snap into the quill- it's about a 10 second operation. The DRO is just showing position but has a lot of fancy features. For example, if you want to drill the exact center of something you nudge one side, then nudge the other side, then push a button, it will guide you to the CL.



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[Brian Hood]

The attachment didn't take, trying again
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[David Malicky]

On pricing for a used RF30/31, new RF31s are $1200 - $1400:
https://www.southern-tool.com/store/rf_series_mill-drill.php
http://www.penntoolco.com/rf-31/
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/3566-rf-31-1-e-rong-fu-mill-drill-combinations.html
Note RF now has factories in both Taiwan and China -- the base RF31 is probably from China, but quality should be decent from RF.
If a used one has tooling, the package deal would likely be worth it.

If you are in the ~$2k range, the RF45 clones (square column) are a usual option, but overkill for wood unless you need the ~20" swing:
http://www.hossmachine.info/RF-45_Clone.html
http://www.penntoolco.com/dm-45/
(http://www.penntoolco.com/dm-45/)Or floor size: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Drill-Press/G0751
The lower end 45s will likely have pretty noisy gears and need considerable tuning, though.


(http://www.penntoolco.com/dm-45/)

[Brian Sommers]

WEll, I'm going to be just drilling wood, but I want to be able to set exact depth and be able to repeat it exactly and easily.

However, maybe I can get into the milling end of things, but that really isn't my out right intention.

I've narrowed it down to these:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/G0704
or
https://www.grizzly.com/products/G0758

I think, either would do fine with what I want it for, unless I'm missing something drastic.

and yes the F31 isn't out either, that does look good.

out of the those three, would the F31 be better?

[David Malicky]

Yes, the G0704 (generic name is the BF20) is a very good machine for the $, but it only has 2" of quill travel (I thought you wanted 4"+). The head goes up and down, but through a worm gear so it doesn't have feedback or quick return like a quill. Maybe that's ok with you. The BF20 is very popular for DIY CNC (better design and quality than Sieg).

The RF31 is heavier duty, true ~5" quill travel. Round column is less convenient than square for milling, but little difference for drilling wood. For a "drill press", I'd get the RF31/30 for the quill and quality.

[Keith Weber]

The OP did say he had a budget of $1000-1200, so I don't know why recommendations of Kurt vises and Albrecht chucks came up. Just so readers not into machining are not mislead, realize that all the specs regarding the accuracy of high quality accessories like those don't mean squat when mounted to a light weight, Chiwanese mill drill. It's kinda like putting Pirelli tires on a Ford Pinto -- a lot of money for little gain. Accuracy of machinery is only as good as the weakest link. Not to knock mill drills. They definitely have their place in the world, but you can't expect to hold tolerances measured in ten thousandths of an inch.

[Ole Anderson]

When you say precise, do you mean for very small (miniature) work or very accurate? And most any drill press has a depth stop feature that will be precise enough for most any work with wood. And he did say in post 6 he could go up to $2500.

[Brian Sommers]

ah.. thanks, I thought the head travel would make up for the quill but not so much I take it.

I'll probably aim for the RF31 and be done with it.

[Greg R Bradley]

You are never "done with it". You are only buying the next step on the path to financial ruin.

[mreza Salav]

I'm curious what type of woodworking drilling requires that level of precision? I can understand for metal working the tolerances are quit different but for woodworking I am lost.

[David Kumm]

A Millrite is about 2/3 size of a Bridgeport and in the budget range. After getting mine, I got rid of the old drill press. Dave

[Sid Matheny]

I think you would be pleased with the Grizzly G0755 at just under $2500 before shipping. It seems to have all you are looking for.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Mill-Drill-with-Stand-and-Power-Feed/G0755

[Wakahisa Shinta]

If you are only working with wood, then why not consider the Delta 18-900L or Powermatic P2800B. I just purchased the Delta 18-900L. After careful assembly, I measured quill runout to be roughly 0.0015" at full quill travel of 6".

Before buying the Delta, I considered getting a small mill to serve as both a DP and mill. I considered knee mill, but it is too big for my 1.5 car garage shop. Then I found the Grizzly G0704, which becomes the G0759 if you add a 3-axis DRO. Both have dovetail columns, but only 2" quill travel. I looked at the round-columns mills, which have more quill travel, but the design comes with inherent problems. Then I read Hoss's website, hobby machinist forum, and came to a conclusion. For quick drilling in wood, a drill press like the Delta 18-900L is hard to beat. Setting up a mill to drill a quick hole in wood would be time consuming. Fortunately, my 18-900L has a good quill runout. I still plan to acquire a mill (likely the G0759), but it will be mostly dedicated to precision milling and drilling.

Best of luck with your decision.

[David Malicky]

Just fyi...
The G0755 is an RF45 clone, and a real RF45 is not much more $.
The round column mills are indeed not that great for extensive milling, but the alignment issue is mostly solvable with some effort. Clever owners have come up with linkages to keep it straight, or place a spindle-mounted dowel pin in a reamed vise hole, or just plan the work so the head stays put. As a drill press, round column should be fine.
Agreed it's tough to beat an 18-900L as a standard DP. That's in our shop, as well as an RF45.
Every machine has its pros and cons, depending on aims and budget.

[Susumu Mori]

I just want to point out "Mini Mills" do not have quill and have only the head travels.
My model from LittleMachineShop has an air spring and the vertical head travel can be used just like the regular wood drills, and the travel is quite long (I guess something like 10 inches). I found it quite fun to use for woods.

I think you may find this page very helpful; http://littlemachineshop.com/info/minimill_compare.php.

[pat warner]

Built a fence (http://patwarner.com/images/dp_fence_pixpg1.jpg) for positioning. A vise will take you all day to find the drill entry coordinates accurately. And I'd consider one of these (re-built) for stability, accuracy and durability.
Buffalo, Atlas, DoAll, Davis & Wells, Powermatics, Rockwells, General, Clausing, Delta, Pre'65 Sears, walker-turner, Duro, & Wilton
e.g.

[Brian Hood]

Just fyi...
The G0755 is an RF45 clone, and a real RF45 is not much more $.
The round column mills are indeed not that great for extensive milling, but the alignment issue is mostly solvable with some effort. Clever owners have come up with linkages to keep it straight, or place a spindle-mounted dowel pin in a reamed vise hole, or just plan the work so the head stays put. As a drill press, round column should be fine.
Agreed it's tough to beat an 18-900L as a standard DP. That's in our shop, as well as an RF45.
Every machine has its pros and cons, depending on aims and budget.

The extent to which the Grizzleys tend to be copies of Rong FU is such that the part numbers on the exploded assembly drawings are exactly the same, and Rong Fu owners often download and use the Grizzley manuals. The quality difference between Grizzley, Rong Fu, Jet, Bolton, etc is quite the debate. In any case the 60% discount for buying used might mean something.

[Steve H Graham]

I found an old Rockwell 17-430 on Craigslist for $250. I added a Phase II x-y table and a vise. Old Rockwells are very precise. It has 6" of quill travel.

For $1200, you might be able to find an old knee mill which, though worn by metalwork standards, is still far better than any drill press.

[David Malicky]

Yes, the Sieg mini mill 'quill' should work well. My impression from forums is that Sieg quality is not so good, at least compared to the BF20, but that owners are also happy. The one Sieg I have used (an X2 from Grizzly) was pretty rough. The head seemed ok, and I also liked the long 'quill', but the XY needed a lot of work... a kit. Still, a tuned Sieg would be a leap ahead of hand precision and there's nothing like it at that price. It wouldn't be my choice, but I see the niche.

Yes, the RF clones are near clones (for the 45, the base casting and head lift are different). But the quality is not cloned -- generally, it can't be, at the lower price. I don't see a debate on Taiwan vs typical China. I've researched, sourced, and used a dozen Taiwan machines and dozens from China. All our Taiwan machines are quite nice -- casting and machining quality, precision, attention to detail, component quality, turn-key functionality. Generally our Chinese machines are a lower category at a lower price. But after fiddling, almost all work well, and a few are close to Taiwan quality. Our Rong Fu 45 is a typical Taiwan machine (except the plastic hand wheels -- a beancounter's contribution, but easily replaced). A Rong Fu 31 from China is probably somewhere in between, but I've not used one to know for sure.

[Brian Sommers]

I'm just making toys, etc. I have a little cheap ShopFox and I hate it. it has less than 2" of quill throw so I can't bore through a 2x4 for axles, etc.

I want to make a little wooden house set that interacts with each other and I want precise holes.

[Ole Anderson]

I'm just making toys, etc. I have a little cheap ShopFox and I hate it. it has less than 2" of quill throw so I can't bore through a 2x4 for axles, etc.

I want to make a little wooden house set that interacts with each other and I want precise holes.


Any decent drill press ought to be able to do that if you use jigs to support the items being drilled and you use quality drill bits intended for the use. Biggest hurdle you will face is the bit wanting to start in the soft part of the grain and starting off center. To avoid that you can add hardened drill bushing to a jig. That is how a Kreg pocket hole jig allows you to drill at an angle into a piece of wood. If you chuck a long drill bit into a Bridgeport you can still have the same problem.





NOW you tell me...

[mreza Salav]

There is nothing wrong with getting a good machine with tolerances in 0.0001". It is also your money and you decide how to spend it. But I am thinking a reasonable drill press will be capable of what you want to achieve in wood. I doubt there is anybody who can claim the wood pieces they create (cut/shape/drill) are accurate within that tolerance and beside, wood is always moving. I have an old Delta 17" with 4.5" (or slightly more) quill travel. The table isn't great, but I see the new models have very good tables (both the PM and Delta get great reviews, although Delta isn't a company I'd feel comfortable buying from these days...)

[Brian Hood]

Any decent drill press ought to be able to do that if you use jigs to support the items being drilled and you use quality drill bits intended for the use. Biggest hurdle you will face is the bit wanting to start in the soft part of the grain and starting off center. To avoid that you can add hardened drill bushing to a jig. That is how a Kreg pocket hole jig allows you to drill at an angle into a piece of wood. If you chuck a long drill bit into a Bridgeport you can still have the same problem.





NOW you tell me...



Drill press or mill when drilling a hole slightly offset from an existing hole or in variable density material an end-cutting 4-flute end mill will generally ignore the existing hole. Works great in a regular drill press. Downside is limited sizes but pre drill with small end mill and finish with actual size drill or for an absolutely perfect hole finish with a reamer.
There are a lot of very useful tools and techniques that cross over from machining to woodworking very nicely, my wood game got a lot better when I got the mill.

[Brian Hood]

Absolutely correct, a good drill press will suffice and the value of holding tolerance below .005" in wood is pretty low. The value of a good mill/drill might be the fine feed drive on the quill and the ability to quickly use it as an overhead router on smaller parts you would have a hard time using a regular router on. The OP is making toys and would probably get a lot of value from a mill, but is it worth the extra money, not to mention the hassle of transporting and installing a 750lb. mill/drill?