Worth Another Look - Long

[Dale Bonertz]

After researching many lathes, I finally settled on purchasing the Vicmarc VL300. I received my lathe in mid September and I have rough turn and cored around 60 blocks in the 14” to 20” size range. In addition, I have been able to finish turn a few bowls. Following is my review of the lathe.

The first thing I noticed was the thick cast iron bed which will dampen vibration. The mass of the machine was well balanced and easy to move and set in the location where I wanted it in my shop. The adjustable legs made setting the lathe to my height a breeze. When I leveled the lathe it was so close that I bolted it to the floor and then put two shoe box pieces of cardboard between the lathe bed and the base in the back, one in the middle and a few pieces of paper under the head stock, all on the operator side of the lathe. This leveled the lathe front to back and across the ways.

I purchased the short outboard extension with supports underneath the bed extension. This came on the lathe and is very sturdy. After setting the lathe, I checked the alignment of the tail stock on both the inboard and outboard side of the lathe and they were both dead on with the spindle. The tapered bearings in the head stock allows Vicmarc to make the head stock in an ergonomic, rigid and compact design. This allows for ease of working around it on either the inboard or outboard side and yet is very solid. In addition, I can remount the bed extension on the inboard side if I ever need a super long bed for a spindle.

When I turned the main start switch on it was so quite I thought it wasn’t running. I had to look at the RPM readout box to know it was on. I then ran it forward/reverse and at different speeds and was amazed how quite it runs.

There were four concerns folks repetitively brought up during my research so I want to address them individually:

1) “I’ll always be hitting the stop bar” This is something that takes about two bowls to get used to. The bar is located in such a manner that you almost have to be wanting to hit this safety bar to stop the lathe. You can lean on the lathe because it has part of the frame over the stop bar. You will learn to love this feature when turning. I have to use the high side of my knee to use the bar which is very convenient.
2) “I will be hitting the wrong buttons for forward and reverse on the remote box when turning on the opposite side of the lathe” You will figure out really quick that if you use the remote box in the same orientation on both the inboard and outboard side that the forward and reverse switch sequence is the same. I use the box where the wire going into the box is always on the same side of the lathe. So no matter if I am using the inboard side or outboard side the forward button is in the lower right corner and the reverse button is in the upper left corner (I don’t pay much attention to what it says on the switch I pay attention to the box direction). The only things that change with this method are the speed dial and the stop button but they are both so different than the forward/reverse buttons that it is fool proof to use them.
3) “Chucks will unscrew from the other side of the lathe when I turn the lathe on” The mating surface of the spindle face is so precision by Vicmarc that without torqueing down on the chuck I have not had one spin off yet. I usually always have a chuck on both sides since I use both sides back and forth all the time. I don’t need to stop take the piece off, take the fixture off, put another fixture on remount the piece and repeat, I can go back and forth with the bed on both sides of the head stock. I also can utilize the longer bed on the inboard and shorter bed on the outboard and yet maintain the stability of a fixed head lathe. This is faster and more stable than sliding the headstock around like so many lathes yet maintaining all the conveniences of the sliding headstock lathe.
4) “Outboard bed not being sturdy and vibrating” I ordered my lathe and requested from Christian and Vicmarc to add a support under the outboard bed to alleviate this potential problem. They were very accommodating and made one for me in the factory. This support is the ticket. I originally thought I would use the outboard side to rough the exterior of blanks and core on the inboard side. The outboard bed is so sturdy that I rough the exterior on the inboard side and core on the outboard side. When finish turning I will turn the outside of a bowl on the inboard side and then put the bowl in the chuck on the outboard side to finish turn and sand the inside. Then mount the blank back on the inboard side and turn the bottom and sand the outside. So convenient and quick having the two sides set up and ready to use. If I want to use the vacuum chuck, simply unscrew the chuck on the outboard side screw in the Vicmarc vacuum adapter and mount the bowl.

In closing I purchased an extra banjo, tailstock and two swing away so I could have two lathes in one. The cost of the lathe and extras was competitive with any American or foreign made lathe in this class. All of the concerns expressed to me were duly noted however they all proved to be nothing more than folks not having experience on the lathe to see that the concerns are not concerns at all. Working with Woodworkers Emporium and Vicmarc has been hassle free and a true delight. The VL300 lathe is worth another look if you are considering a lathe in this class.

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[William C Rogers]

I'm not able to afford the Vcmarc, but your picture says it all!

[Reed Gray]

If there were teleporters, I would come over for a play date. I am curious about that lathe. I may have to wait till the next Oregon Woodturning Symposium in 2017 because Woodworker's Emporium comes up for that one.

robo hippy

[Roger Chandler]

That certainly appears to be a versatile and configurable apparatus there Dale! I agree with Jamie's post over on WC, that you now need a Bobcat skid loader to remove all the shavings!

Your review was informative.......thanks for the perspective!

[Doug Ladendorf]

That is one happy guy there! Very very nice.

Doug

[ronald ainge]

Dale

It appears that you are having toooooooo much fun. I am happy to turn that much but then I have to pack all of those shavings out of the basement ant that is a lot of work. I hope you do not have that same problem. Keep turning Buddy, I know I will see you this fall if not sooner.

[Dale Bonertz]

Ronald,
I pack them out of my garage. A little easier than the basement.

I'll be at your club in January to deliver some bowl blanks for the beads of courage program. Are you the president? If so make time for me.

Thanks,
Dale

[John Sanford]

Working with Christian at Woodworkers Emporium is always a pleasure.

[ronald ainge]

Dale

I will be the club president starting 1/1/2016 and you can have all the time you need to talk about the Beads of Courage Program.

Ron

[Dale Bonertz]

Thanks Ron

[Ned Ladner]

Dale,

I currently have a midi lathe and am researching large lathes in this class. I am very interested and leaning towards the Vicmarc.

1) Can you tell me the other lathes you considered, which if any were close runner-ups, and what sealed your Vicmarc decision?
2) If possible, can you post some photos from different angles so we can get a better understanding of your setup?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Ned Ladner

[Dale Bonertz]

I looked at a lot of them Ned. VB, Oneway, Powermatic, Robust, Stubby, Vega bowl lathe, Serious and Vicmarc. I am sure I will get blasted by some for my following comments but they are not meant to bad mouth the lathes but to explain why I chose the lathe I did. Some of the lathes I moved to the not going to work list pretty quick others took more time.

Here goes.

1) VB, Serious, Vega and Oneway: They have odd morse taper and spindle threading, I would have to had invest more money to adjust my fixtures to work on them. Some would require other attachments to do what I would want it to and some did not have the right attachments available. The oneway 2436 turned out to be the closest runner up of all the ones I looked at because it fit my needs. It became fairly easy to choose the Vicmarc due to the standards used, M33 and MT3.
2) Stubby is hard to get in America and I would want the 1000 over the 750. Great lathe though.
3) Powermatic (4224) and Robust: I looked at both fairly hard. I have turned on the Robust and 3520B (not 4224) quite a bit. The powermatic just does not have the fit and finish I would want at that price. Also the 3520B always seems to have something going on, bearings, VFD, switches and I assume the 4224 would be the same. In addition I am not a huge fan of sliding head stocks. I know folks say they are solid but my experience has shown this to not be true. The Robust lathe head stock would vibrate loose when I would try and core on it - very frustrating. Centers don't line up as you move the head stock unless you push the headstock to one side of the bed or the other and then you have to remember to do that with the tail stock as you move it (this is even written in the Robust directions). I also could bog down the Robust much easier than I thought I should be able to. Bottom line, for how I turn, I learned that a fixed head lathe is superior in performance than sliding head stock lathes. I wanted the only advantage, that I could see, in sliding head stock lathes which is the short bed for sanding and that is why I went with the short outboard extension for certain applications and sanding. I use both sides of the head stock on my Vicmarc a lot more than I really dreamed I would. It is so fast and convenient that I can't see why anyone would want to waste time on sliding a heavy head stock around.

I took over a year researching what I really needed and all of the lathes and their pros and cons. I decided on the Vicmarc because it best fit my needs and has a reputation of being a workhorse with little to no issues.

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I hope this picture helps explain what I have. This is my lathe, Christian sent this picture to me after he set the lathe up. Sorry I can't seem to delete the thumb nail picture below.

[Geoff Whaling]

I looked at a lot of them Ned. VB, Oneway, Powermatic, Robust, Stubby, Vega bowl lathe, Serious and Vicmarc. I am sure I will get blasted by some for my following comments but they are not meant to bad mouth the lathes but to explain why I chose the lathe I did. Some of the lathes I moved to the not going to work list pretty quick others took more time.



Dale why should some one blast you for a well reasoned selection process and well supported rationale?

Perhaps the manufacturers should listen to their more experienced customers more often. It is interesting to see both Vicmarc & Stubby were high on you list, good to hear that Aussie made is doing so well.

I followed a similar process when selecting a replacement for our aging Nova Mercury. I quickly weeded out many due to my views on placement and quality of operator controls, E-stops etc. The VL150 won out easily though it still has a few minor niggles that Marco & the team have since rectified after listening to their customers.

[Ned Ladner]

Dale,

Thanks for for the detailed reply; very informative and helpful. Did you compare the VL300 version that Craft Supplies sells versus the version Woodworker's Emporium sells? I believe there are some differences. If you did compare, what were your findings and thoughts?

[Dale Bonertz]

Thanks Geoff. I could have gone deeper in my analysis like you mentioned where controls and etc were was also researched. The head stocks of the powermatic are just bulky and cumbersome for example. These types of lathe issues were definitely part of my decision but somewhat became secondary to other things that I did not like about the machine. As an example the stainless bed ways on the Robust. Many say they love it because they don't have to worry about rust but the trade off is you can't use the remote box on it. The magnets won't hold on stainless so you have to put the remote box in odd locations on the lathe and for me becomes a safety issue. In my mind one has to clean the pitch and wood juices off of any lathe and lathe bed so using a scotch pad to do so isn't a big deal and will clean any surface oxidation along with it.

Ned,

I did look at the Craft Supplies version and it is very nice, my mentor has this lathe. There machine although quite it is not as quite as the Aussie version. They also don't have the stop bar which I find is huge safety and convenient feature of the lathe. When I was looking they didn't have adjustable legs either. Just some things that I felt if I was going to spend the money then I wanted some of those features. I also wanted the support legs for the outboard bed and I was not confidant they could achieve it like in the factory of Vicmarc.

As a side note I find it amusing when people say they would always be unintentionally turning the lathe off because of the stop bar. Yeah that happens on a rare occasion but I love the bar. For safety it is far superior than anything on the market today. Not having to reach across the line of fire or panic to find the remote box. There are times you simply have both hands busy and the bar is there to stop the lathe to look at your work. The bed frame along the top of the bar is flush with the bar so you can lean on the bed without activating it. You really have to want to turn off the lathe with the bar most of the time.

In closing, I would not have chosen the Vicmarc if they hadn't started matching the outboard end to accommodate an exterior bed extension. It would not have worked for my purposes. I would have had to buy the oneway to achieve what I needed and their exterior bed extension. I think, for now anyway, that Vicmarc is making the most ergonomically designed and functional lathe on the market. Their attention to the safety, detail and user friendliness is second to none, at this time, for what is available on the market.

[Hayes Rutherford]

Dale, a great review and the "two lathes in one" with only a few extras makes good sense. I fully agree about the bulky headstock of the Powermatic, and you have stirred up my wanting a different lathe.

While a buildup of curlies is certainly impressive, I fear sending them in yet another direction. I would have to free up valuable space where a variety of tools I depend on being within easy reach, dust collection, and lighting, would have to be re-designed. So for me its not only lathe ergonomics, but shop ergonomics as well and I think that is why the sliding headstock is as popular as it is. So for now, I remain envious and will suffer with my Powermatic(lol)

[Reed Gray]

Dale,
I know Vickmark has a pivoting head stock lathe. Have you ever tried that one? I have only seen pictures, but it looks to be built like a tank.
robo hippy

[Dale Bonertz]

I have not turned on it, Reed. I have seen it at our symposium and it is built like a tank. Seems really really solid. I was surprised at how stout the mechanism is for rotating the head. For those who have limited space I would think that lathe should be on the short list for sure.

[Reed Gray]

Well, for sure, if I was going for a pivoting headstock, that would be my lathe of choice. Curiosity is a dangerous thing to the pocket book. Right now though, I need a 10,000 sq. ft. shop...... Having spent so much time on short bed lathe/sliding headstock lathe, turning bowls on a long bed lathe just doesn't feel right. Maybe I need (what's need got to do with it) to take a spin on a VB36...

robo hippy

[Dale Bonertz]

What long bed lathe are you referring Reed? Lost me there.

[Reed Gray]

Oh, the sliding headstock lathes are both long bed and short bed, so you get a good spindle lathe, and a good bowl lathe. I did a demo up in Salem with Nick Stagg and it was 2 ways to turn a bowl. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. It was the 12/36 Oneway. Later I figured out that was because I was used to standing close to the lathe and totally using body movement with my arms in at my sides rather than doing the Stuart Batty push cut with arms extended. Almost the same feeling when I took a 3 day workshop with both Stuart and Allan at Nick's house. The style works, I could be better at it if I used it, but just don't like holding my arms out that far. I give my shoulders enough work when I am swimming laps at the pool.

robo hippy

[Dale Bonertz]

I hear you. I can mount my exterior short bed on the inboard side for long spindles if needed. I remember asking myself that question on longer spindles and this lathe. Then I thought in the fourteen years I have been turning I haven't turned many spindles and even then the longest was maybe 12". So I concluded with this set up that I can, albeit a little extra work moving the bed, turn a spindle that is longer than about 36 inches which the inboard side can do with the swing away holding the tail stock. I turn bowls primarily and a few hollow forms so longer spindle work does not concern or interest me.

[Dale Bonertz]

I didn't want to mislead folks so I measured the distance for chuck to tail center. I can do a spindle about 30" not 36" using the swing away for the tail stock. If I mounted the short bed extension then about 40" spindle and if I mounted the swing on the bed extension then about 50" spindle. But as I said I don't turn long spindles so not a concern of mine but for those who do and are thinking about this type of setup - now you know.:)

[Michael Schneider]

Thanks for the picture. I had not seen the swing away installed on a vicmarc before. Does it effectively extend the length of the bed? If so, by how much? I would need the extra length for a heavy piece, just the occasional long thin piece. If so, How much does it increase the distance between centers?

Thanks
Michael

[Dale Bonertz]

Michael,

I don't know what happened to my post that I sent on my phone, that was a couple of weeks ago. It adds about 10 inches to the bed length. When it closes it sits on a built in ledge so it aligns with the bed. Very heavy duty. I measured the lathe and what you can do for spindles and it is 30" with using the swing away (depending on holding method and tail center used 30" to 32"). If you attach the bed extension on the end of the lathe it will add another ten to fourteen inches depending where you locate the tail stock on the extension. Put the swing away on the bed extension and you can another 10 inches. So lots of options and configurations and you can turn spindles from 30" to 50 to around 53 inches.

I understand Hayes but with my shop the ergonomics work great. My shop is 10' wide and 30' long. I have hung fabric shower curtains completely around the lathe to keep chips off of my tools hung on the walls. I have them on conduit so I can slide them out of the way when not turning and to make clean up easier. Lighting and dust collection needs to be adjusted any time one moves or remodels his/her shop which seems to happen more often than one assumes it will, at least for me. I am continually evolving in my shop and making it more usable and ergonomically freindly. It sucked having my old lathe closer to the wall, even at a slight angle. It made cleaning a challenge and I like being able to walk all the way around my current set up. It is easier to get to things and it actually opened up more wall space to organize and get to tools now that I can walk and work around the entire machine.