Jointing on Router Table problems. Help please! Incra LS

[Patrick Irish]

I'm trying to make a edge grain cutting board and don't have a jointer or planer. I bought 18 pieces of planed ready to go wood. Only problem is I plan to flip it edge grain which makes it too small so I have to add wood.


I have some oak and was trying to pass it through the router table to 100% square the edge so I can cut strips on the table saw.


I have have an Incra LS Positioner router system with fence I can offset. Well for the life of me I cannot get the board straight. I have the outfeed fence out about 1/16". Pass through and apply pressure on the outfeed section of wood and notice board moving further away from the infeed fence. Few passes and the board is a mess. You can from picture how it's out of square now. I just want to pass it through and clean the edge and square it.


Any my ideas what I'm doing wrong?

1st photo shows how it's flush on outfeed but creeping away on the infeed.

2nd photo shows the fence offset 1/16" and flush with bit.

3rd photo shows bottom board square and was the other half AND how out of square the board I tried jointing is now.

http://i.imgur.com/UlLsSxwl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/93lYITul.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1XR3RDZl.jpg

[Randy Rose]

FWIW, I once tried to do this with a Freud adjustable router fence ( gave it away) and was never able to achieve satisfactory results.

Lacking a jointer, I would just square the board with a few passes through the table saw. It would have to be better than what you`re getting now.

[Brian Tymchak]

Sounds like the 2 fences might not be aligned. Back the outfeed down to flush with the infeed at the router bit. Stick a straight-edge across the whole fence face and check the alignment. If they are aligned, it must be technique.

[glenn bradley]

When jointing, reference surfaces need to be coplaner. The smaller the surface, the smaller the area of concern but, they have to be coplaner and then offset. As Brian stated, align the fences on one plane to assure they are good in that configuration. Then move your infeed back or your outfeed forward the amount desired. If the Incra does not have a controlled mechanism for moving half of the fence I would shim the outfeed side with piece of plastic or thin laminate. Make yourself something like these (http://www.rockler.com/router-table-jointing-shims-6-pack). If that is not an option I would apply a thin sheet of something to the outfeed instead.

[Joe Blanchard]

I have the same fence, minus the positioner, and get really good results jointing. As others have stated, you need to make sure the fence faces are coplanar. This should be easily accomplished by putting the fences back to the in-line setting (zero them on the scales). This assumes that you had previously calibrated the fences for the in-line position. You can check this by sliding a straight edge along the fences while set in the in-line position - the straight edge shouldn't catch in either direction and should be flush with no gaps along its entire length. Then, position the fence so that outfeed face is in-line with the outer most edge of the bit. If you have it, use a bit with a bearing, and then use your straight edge against the bearing to align the fence - this is far more reliable (imo) than using the straight edge against the cutter. You then adjust the infeed fence back - incra recommends setting it to either -1 or -2 (I typically use -1.5 or so). Good luck!

[Patrick Irish]

Thanks guys for the replies. I'll verify everything is square with a square. I ran a strait edge across the fences then moved the outfeed out a bit flush with the bit. I'll try using a bearing bit and making the bearing flush with the outfeed THEN move the infeed in to -1.5 mark.

Here's a video I found with exactly my problem. Notice how the board starts to move away from the fence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYoFj2brhuI

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I had difficulty when I last tried to do something like that..... so I simply gave up, slapped a straight edge on the board and then used the router with a pattern bit to make it straight. Well, that is one way that I do it without a jointer, but, this also still lets you use your router :D

[Joe Blanchard]

From the looks of the video and what you describe, it sounds like it's tapering the wood. There are lots of articles online about addressing/minimizing tapering when jointing, but basically it boils down to: 1. make sure the machine is setup right (all faces are coplanar and the outfeed face is inline with the edge of the cutter at the highest point in its arc) and 2. technique - use just enough pressure to move the piece and move pressure to the outfeed side as the board passes over the "jointer". If you're pressed for time you can do what Andrew suggested and use a straight edge and pattern bit - I use a cheap MDF shelf I bought at the BORG for this from time to time. Otherwise, you can use that same straight edge/shelf on the table saw - fasten the board to straighten (either via clamps, screws, hot glue/etc) to the straight edge, set your TS fence accordingly, and run the whole thing through the table saw, trimming off the edge of the lumber:

Something like this http://www.newwoodworker.com/tsjointjig.html

Or As suggested in the video, you may want to give incra a call, their customer service is supposed to be top notch.

[Prashun Patel]

There are 5 screws inside each of the faces that require tightening. For the life of me, I never remember to tighten them all before firing up. Not doing so can cause a little slop. It's not an issue for most ops, but for jointing it is.

Also, is your carriage in the 'fully locked' or 'semi-locked' position?

[Patrick Irish]

^^^ I noticed some side to side play in the fence. Not sure how to prevent that aside from clamping blocks behind the fence. I did but the LS system used and mounted. I'll look and see if things are loose.

I emailed Incra and received the most detailed reply I could imagine. Here is the copy.


I communicated with the customer in the YouTube video a few months ago, but I don't recall specifically what we found. There are a few possible causes, and what you're experiencing might be caused by a combination of factors instead of only one. There are some advanced adjustments available on the Wonder Fence that we can discuss if necessary, but it's important to take care of the simplest things first.

Regarding the fence setup -

- Using a straight edge to set the outfeed fence relative to the bit will get you into the ballpark, but it will usually take a few cuts for some fine tuning to get the perfect fence position. A non-cutting setup with a straight edge won't account for the fact that the router bit & router will have some runout (consistent sideways wobble in their rotation), there might be some vibration at 20k RPM, etc.

- If the boards are concave (jointed boards touch at the ends but not the middle), use the red mike knob to back the whole fence assembly away from the router bit 0.005" (or move just the outfeed fence, but that's more work). Keep exposing more bit until you see some "snipe" develop at the very end of the pass, an area of a slightly deeper cut for the last inch or two of the board's length, then micro adjust the fence the other direction to cover more of the bit until the snipe disappears. The cause: If the outfeed fence is a couple thousandths proud of the bit, the board might not quite bump into it at the beginning of the cut, but it could be enough that the board will start to pivot away from the infeed fence, creating your concave edge. *Tip* - You can also measure the depth of the snipe with a straight edge and feeler gauges to find out exactly how many thousandths to move the fence forward.

- You're smart in working with shorter boards to test things. In theory, a jointer can only straighten a board as long as its infeed bed (or the infeed fence on a router table). Reality allows longer lumber after everything is dialed in, and you can install long sub fences on the infeed & outfeed halves of the Wonder Fence when working with longer lumber.


Both router fences and conventional jointers are somewhat sensitive to technique. Some suggestions there -

-The pressure holding the lumber against the fence should be very light…a few finger tips-worth or 1-2lbs, just enough to keep the lumber moving, under control, and in consistent contact with the fence.

- Keep the pressure focused a couple of inches ahead of the bit, near the end of the infeed fence, until the very end of the cut, where the pressure is shifted just past the bit to the first few inches of the outfeed fence. There generally shouldn't be pressure against the outfeed fence until the very end.

- Don't take more passes than necessary get a smooth, straight edge…more isn't better.


If the above items don't improve things, you can check the alignment of the two Wonder Fence halves: Bring them inline with each other so a board passes smoothly across the router bit from both directions, then put a reliable straight edge across the entire fence length. If the straight edge isn't against the fence or parallel to both fence halves fence (if there's a gap), let me know…the Wonder Fence is adjustable on this axis.


Other, more general things to keep in mind -

- Move yourself away from directly in front of the router bit, a little closer to the corner of the table on the infeed side…as with a table saw, the focus should be on moving the lumber forward, and this location will give you better control than moving the board side to side in front of you and make it easier to feed hand over hand on longer boards.

- A jointer won't keep edges parallel…its purpose is to straighten one edge well enough to rip the other edge parallel at your table saw.

- When you're working with longer boards, set up some temporary infeed & outfeed support…not having enough support requires using more force to manage the lumber. Roller balls or a flat table are better than regular roller stands.

- The boards shouldn't be excessively concave and produce large gaps in the middle of a panel, but in the days of hand planes, woodworkers would often plane a little "spring" into the board edges instead of keeping them perfectly straight…a gentle curve a few thousandths lower in the middle would insure that the ends of the seams in a glued up panel would stay tight over the years.

Let me know if I can clarify or address any questions - 888.804.6272 xt 4 (tel:888.804.6272%20xt%204).

[Duane Meadows]

As with a jointer, the outfeed fence should be at the outer edge of the cutter. the infeed fence should be back of bit edge by the desired depth of cut.

Set the outfeed fence out by the depth of cut, then move the whole fence assembly till the out feed fence is flush with the cutter. Will work very well that way. I have done it both on the Incra system, and on my shaper that way.

That's what Incra is saying also!

[Bryan Cramer]

This one instance might just call for a hand plane. That short of board can be straighten easily with a #5. Again this does take proper technique and set up too.

[william watts]

Your 3 ed picture shows the edge of the board away from the fence is tapered referenced to the boarded under it, is this the " not square" you mean? A jointed edge is straight and 90* to the faces of the board not parallel to the opposite edge. Inca speaks of this in their replay. Rip the board with the jointed edge against the table saw fence and you will have the square piece you need. Still it looks like a lot of taper. Generally I use a jointer but sometimes I just cannot get a straight edge for some unknown reason, then I use a hand plane. It's possible I misinterpreted this entire question.

Bill

[Rick Lizek]

http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2005/01/28/wb/closer/
You can also joint on a table saw. The longer fence is a big help. Your pics aren't really helpful. I would want to see a view from right above to see which edge of the board you put against the fence. It sounds like you put the wrong edge against the fence which would give the tapering you describe. Sounds like you don't quite understand the working and set up of a jointer. The table saw sled would be a simpler option. As simple as a jointer is many people don't know to trouble shoot problems. You can have a perfectly set up jointer and feeding technique can be the problem and it's often confused with sagging tables or it can be as simple as your bit or knives are not set properly in relation to the outfeed table.
http://www.newwoodworker.com/tsjointjig.html