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Mike Henderson
12-12-2015, 11:38 AM
Earlier I had posted a question looking for an insulation that would stand up to moderate temperature - for use in a solar kiln. I got some good suggestions and have completed the kiln, at least at far as my agreement with the client. Here's some pictures of it.

She wanted a solar kiln large enough to put 10 full size beehive frames in - to melt the wax off the frames. That would be easier than trying to clean frames by hand.

Her husband is a good metal worker so he's going to make the pan that the wax drips on to, and a collection container. In discussing it with him, he said he'd use stainless steel sheet.

Also, they will paint it. Flat black on the inside to absorb heat, and any color on the outside - just to protect the wood.

So here's the kiln from the front. I used two pieces of acrylic for the door - there's an air gap of about 3/4" between them. The interior is lined with insulation one inch thick. The door at the front is to access the collection container.
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Here's a view from the side. The kiln is tilted at 15 degrees, which is what was recommended by papers from two universities. But for winter use, when the sun is down in the sky, you'd have to prop up the back of the kiln.
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This next picture shows the interior with the door open. I used some hardware to limit how much it opens (and to hold it open) but I'm concerned that if you opened it in windy conditions, it might blow closed on you. I put weather stripping on the edge of the box so that there's no air leakage when you close the door. Since hot air rises, it would probably leak out around the door if that was not sealed.
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Here's a close-up of the interior with a sample frame (standard brood frame) in the kiln. She can easily put 10 frames in the kiln and have space between the frames for air circulation. And just a note: The catch pan goes in the front and is accessed by the door in the front. A metal pan will go on the bottom of the slanted part and the wax will drip on to it. The metal pan will be shaped such that there's a spout at the front to dump the melted wax into the collection pan.
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I enjoy these unusual woodworking challenges. It's a chance to work with softwood (pine in this case) and to build to a different level of perfection than is required in furniture. For example, I used half blind dovetails for the box joinery but could knock them out pretty quickly, not worrying about whether they were perfect or not.

There's about $150 of materials in the box: wood, acrylic sheet, hardware, weather stripping, etc.

Mike

Tom Hyde
12-12-2015, 12:08 PM
Really nice, and a great idea. Going to have to make one of these. Thanks for sharing.

Gordon Eyre
12-12-2015, 12:24 PM
What an interesting project, well done.

Michael Weber
12-12-2015, 7:03 PM
Very nicely done. I love the smell of beeswax in the morning (or any other time)

John K Jordan
12-12-2015, 7:37 PM
Nice idea to put in a way to hang frames. Cutting out the comb then cleaning the frames is a pain. I need to build a solar wax melter - I've been melting in an old crock pot, skimming, straining, then repeat.

I might make it longer with a section next to the frames to place comb out of the frame at the same time. The thing I wonder about if it can benefit from a greater area of glass to admit more sunlight for more internal heat. The plans I've seen and have all are longer but I don't know the reason. I haven't done the calculations yet - I think you need above 150 deg F but not more than about 180 deg to prevent discoloration.

JKJ

Lee Schierer
12-12-2015, 8:19 PM
Very nice design. The solar melter I made I used a double layer of glass for the cover. Acrylic softens at 175 F so you might see the lower pane sag on a clear summer day.

The one I made I used a metal tray with heavy 1/2" hardware cloth to keep the wax from sliding. The melted wax ran down the metal tray and dropped into a bread pan sitting on the floor. On hot days in NW PA the wax melted very quickly and stayed liquid in the bread pan, allowing any honey to sink to the bottom of the bread pan.

Mike Henderson
12-12-2015, 9:11 PM
Nice idea to put in a way to hang frames. Cutting out the comb then cleaning the frames is a pain. I need to build a solar wax melter - I've been melting in an old crock pot, skimming, straining, then repeat.

I might make it longer with a section next to the frames to place comb out of the frame at the same time. The thing I wonder about if it can benefit from a greater area of glass to admit more sunlight for more internal heat. The plans I've seen and have all are longer but I don't know the reason. I haven't done the calculations yet - I think you need above 150 deg F but not more than about 180 deg to prevent discoloration.

JKJ
Yeah, I worried about the collection area and whether it will be enough. But with the insulation and the sealing around the door, I hope it will get up to 150 to 160 degrees. Just have to wait and see.

The door is about 29 inches top to bottom but the frame is about 2 1/2" all around if I remember correctly. Didn't keep any notes on the measurements.


Very nice design. The solar melter I made I used a double layer of glass for the cover. Acrylic softens at 175 F so you might see the lower pane sag on a clear summer day.

The one I made I used a metal tray with heavy 1/2" hardware cloth to keep the wax from sliding. The melted wax ran down the metal tray and dropped into a bread pan sitting on the floor. On hot days in NW PA the wax melted very quickly and stayed liquid in the bread pan, allowing any honey to sink to the bottom of the bread pan.
That's a good idea about the hardware cloth. Thanks for posting that.

Mike

Art Mann
12-12-2015, 10:19 PM
Based on my experience, I am worried that the inside will overheat with the insulation. The efficiency of these boxes is just amazing even without insulation. Like Lee, I am worried the acrylic will sag. I used double pane glass on my box and the surface of the glass would get too hot to hold your hand on it.

Mike Henderson
12-12-2015, 10:43 PM
Based on my experience, I am worried that the inside will overheat with the insulation. The efficiency of these boxes is just amazing even without insulation. Like Lee, I am worried the acrylic will sag. I used double pane glass on my box and the surface of the glass would get too hot to hold your hand on it.
Okay, you will convince me to replace the inside with glass:)

Mike

Mike Cutler
12-13-2015, 8:38 AM
Mike
It looks nice, pretty similar to the one I made years ago.
Glass is nice as the top and I used it only because I have a bunch of tempered glass panes in the loft. I think that the right acrylic would work too, it would just have to be sourced properly.
I'm not quite certain why she want to put the frames with comb in it together. That's going to be really messy, with respect to the bottom bars of the frames. If they're extraction frames they'll have wire, or pin support which will have to be removed to install new foundation, might as well cut the comb out first. Brood frames won't be wired, but there will be a lot of debris. A section of window screen underneath the frames would help to remove bulk debris.Propolis, pollen, etc. I guess they could wrap them in bridal veil too. Then again the may be using plastic frames and it won't be as big an issue.
As an aside just be sure that they're aware that beeswax has a flash point of just over 200 degrees. Depending on what they bees have using for propolis, i.e. pine sap, asphalt, roofing tar, etc, it can get fairly combustible. I used to donate my capping's, old brood comb ,and propolis to the local boy scouts and they made burner pots with it. I think they mixed it up with dryer lint and cardboard.

How they use it is up to them. For your part though, that's a fine looking solar wax melter. Well done. :cool:

Lee Schierer
12-13-2015, 9:13 AM
I'm not quite certain why she want to put the frames with comb in it together. That's going to be really messy, with respect to the bottom bars of the frames. If they're extraction frames they'll have wire, or pin support which will have to be removed to install new foundation, might as well cut the comb out first. Brood frames won't be wired, but there will be a lot of debris. A section of window screen underneath the frames would help to remove bulk debris.Propolis, pollen, etc. I guess they could wrap them in bridal veil too. Then again the may be using plastic frames and it won't be as big an issue.

I used to put frames with damaged foundation with wire or pins into my solar melter. The melter does such a good job getting the wax off the frames with no labor that the frames were almost like new so removing the pins and wires was much easier than cutting out the comb. The hardware cloth held nearly all the propolis, pollen and dead bees that I had very little if any in the wax collector.

Mike Henderson
12-13-2015, 11:56 AM
She hasn't used foundation in the past and perhaps that's one reason she has to clean frames. Bees don't always make comb where you want them to:).

I think I convinced her to start using wax foundation in the supers. The argument against foundation in the brood section is that it determines the size of the comb cell and that affects the development of the bee. But that doesn't matter in the supers.

Mike