Hand tools to replace router

[Daniel Rode]

Typically I create certain profiles using a power router. I'd like eventually make some common profiles with hand tools. At the top of my list are a cove, round / thumbnail, and perhaps a bead. The beading tool may be my first because I don't have any way to make a bead now.

I prefer simple solutions to complex and vintage tools to new premium tools. I'm also deeply frugal. I've considered something like the Stanley #45 but I'm not thrilled with the do-it-all multitool approach. The prices for a complete one in good user condition are silly, IMO.

I don't know much about wooden hollows and rounds, but suspect this is where I should be looking. I'm not in any hurry, I just want to learn more at this point.

Any advice or tips would be helpful. I'm at the point now where I don't know what I don't know :)

[Zach Dillinger]

Learning to use hollows and rounds is a slightly steep learning curve if you don't have any molding plane experience. In my opinion, the profiles you have listed would be better made with dedicated molding planes. They are inexpensive and widely available. A bead can be done with something as simple as a wood screw in a block of wood, a bit of scraper with a circle filed into it (see below) and held in the hands with the fingers as a fence, or even a "fancy" scratchstock (which could also make the profiles you've named when appropriately modified).


326937

[Jim Koepke]

I've considered something like the Stanley #45 but I'm not thrilled with the do-it-all multitool approach. The prices for a complete one in good user condition are silly, IMO.

...

I'm not in any hurry, I just want to learn more at this point.

The Stanley #45 can be a pain to set up and use even after one has used it awhile. I have been able to use it to make some simple moldings.

326943

Recently a selection of hollows & rounds along with other moulding planes have been added to my arsenal.

The Stanley #45 shows up with prices all over the place. Don't buy one at mint collector prices.

Here is a great SMC source for information:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Near the bottom of Section 8 there is a post on how to build a scratch stock. It is a little fancier than what Zach suggests.

In Section 7 of that page is a thread about speciality planes that might be of help.

Also in the same section is a very long thread about things to look for when purchasing a plane. Here is one very near the end about the Stanley #45:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?116419-Planes-and-a-Few-Things-to-Look-For&p=1176704#post1176704

Many molding planes have "silly" prices even though they are not rare. Being "not in a hurry" is helpful at finding tools at better prices.

My best source for old molding planes came about by repeatedly talking to people behind the counter in an antique mall. Turns out at one particular mall people don't just rent spaces, the mall is run by a group of antique dealers. One of them happens to deal a lot in old wood working tools. I didn't bump into him until my wife and I had been stopping at this store for about 5 or 6 years. We just never stopped in on a day that Dave was working the counter. I have since bought a lot of old molding planes and carving tools from him. Patience, politeness and persistence payed off big time.

jtk

[paul cottingham]

Matt Bickfords "mouldings in practice" is a great resource for learning to create damn near any profile with hollows and rounds and a couple other planes. But if you are only ever going to make those particular profiles, dedicated planes will definitely be simpler and probably cheaper. I have three beaders, and like them very much with the exception of sharpening the blades. Im a reasonably competent sharpener, but my smallest beader eludes me.

[Daniel Rode]

I don't know that I'll only ever make those few profiles, but they are so common that it seems like I cut my router use down by 80%. Quiet, no dust, no danger.

[glenn bradley]

Quiet, no dust, no danger.

No danger!?! I've drawn more blood with hand tools than any machine I ever operated :D. I'm in the dedicated plane camp. Scratch stocks (as Zach mentioned) can be fabricated quickly and easily. This one uses a piece of a used up recip-saw blade shaped with a round file, a block of wood smoothed for a comfortable grip and a couple of screws.

326976

[Patrick Chase]

Typically I create certain profiles using a power router. I'd like eventually make some common profiles with hand tools. At the top of my list are a cove, round / thumbnail, and perhaps a bead. The beading tool may be my first because I don't have any way to make a bead now.

I prefer simple solutions to complex and vintage tools to new premium tools. I'm also deeply frugal. I've considered something like the Stanley #45 but I'm not thrilled with the do-it-all multitool approach. The prices for a complete one in good user condition are silly, IMO.

I don't know much about wooden hollows and rounds, but suspect this is where I should be looking. I'm not in any hurry, I just want to learn more at this point.

Any advice or tips would be helpful. I'm at the point now where I don't know what I don't know :)

Clearly you need a #55. They're a snap to set up, and get heavy use from everybody that ever buys one!

Seriously, you might consider gradually buying or making a set of wood molding planes. I have minimal experience in that area, but I like the couple I have. The danger (from observing friends who've gone down that path) is that if you make your own it's a gateway drug to amateur metallurgy, since it's easiest to shape the blades fully annealed, and then they need to be hardened.

EDIT: In case it wasn't abundantly clear, I was being sarcastic with the bit about the #55. I read one FWW article by somebody who claimed it was terrific - other than that there is unanimity that it's totally unusable. Even the #45 is problematic IMO.

[Jim Koepke]

Clearly you need a #55. They're a snap to set up, and get heavy use from everybody that ever buys one!


I've considered something like the Stanley #45 but I'm not thrilled with the do-it-all multitool approach.

Getting the Stanley #45 to work is enough of a pain. Getting the Stanley #55 to work is almost a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

jtk

[Jim Davis]

Here's an image of what must have been a factory made scratch stock (because I have one just like it). The image of the stock disassembled is of mine.327002327003

[Frederick Skelly]

The danger is that if you make your own it's a gateway drug to amateur metallurgy, since it's easiest to shape the blades fully annealed, and then they need to be hardened.

Patrick is right on the money. That's exactly what happened to me - I made one hollow and then ..... weeeeeèeeeee!!!! down the metallugy slope I went!

But it has proved quite handy to be able to make my own planes.

[Curt Putnam]

I've been looking at the H&R / Molding plane scene for a couple years now. What little I've learned is that one needs to know their way around wooden planes. If you cannot fettle a wooden plane you stand little chance with a vintage molding plane. Used H&R sets of any quality cost about as much as the new ones from Bickford. I suspect that your best bet, being deeply frugal as you are, is going to be building your own.

[Robert Engel]

Daniel, you can often find different molding planes on Ebay quite cheap.
I've often gotten them for as little as $15.

[Daniel Rode]

Thanks for all the tips! I will start looking around at cove and round-over moulding planes. I've see the screw style beading tool, but some type of scratch stock or scraper seems really useful and easy to make. I think my first move will be to make some kind of beading tool.

[lowell holmes]

Actually, antique wooden beading planes are available and normally reasonably priced. I ended up with two of them.
I recently needed brick mold for a garage door repair and made the mold from d grade fir. The beading plane made short work of it.
It took less time than setting up a router to do the job would have taken and also, much safer.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I don't have enough experience making moldings to really give you advice about that. I have some molding planes that I have found to be finicky in experimenting. I think some of that is my limited experience in adjusting wooden planes, so you may find you like them better.

As far as the combination planes go, I have a Sargent 1080 (similar to the Stanley 45), that I have used a fair amount for plowing, and to a lesser extent for tongue and groove, and beading. I think it works well, but it does not have the elaborate molding irons and accompanying adjustments that come with the Stanley 55. You definitely want to fine tune it on scrap before touching your project with it. Careful set up, patience, and light cuts are a lot of what got it working for me. Starting the cut "at the end" and working backward also made a world of difference.

I read a lot about the combination planes before I bought one, and in my opinion the "boat anchor" crowd has a point, but it is overstated. They are better tools than most people would think from the conventional wisdom. I got a really good deal on mine, and was confident I could resell it, or I probably would not have bothered to try one.

I have never handled a 55, so am not offering a personal opinion on them. I do know a man who made some fairly elaborate replacement moldings for my dad many years ago, using what I now know to have been a 55, so they can be made to work, but are probably best suited to small batches rather than production work, where time is not a major issue. In our case we were trying to match existing moldings in an old house, and the only practical way to get five or six feet of replacement was to hand make it.

If you want to pick something up and start using it "out of the box" an old combination plane is probably a bad choice. Mine is one of the simpler models, and it took quite a bit of studying and experimenting, along with adjustments and some minor restoration to really get it to the point where I feel like I understand some of the finer points of the design and have some confidence using it.

A lot of the ones on ebay are missing parts, and you have no idea they are missing parts because they are complicated enough that you don't know what parts are supposed to be there (and neither does the seller), or important adjustments don't work right because of rust and neglect. If you go that route you want to be pretty picky about what you bid on, or you may end up with something that might display nicely, but is not really functional.

Nick