Help With Veneering

[Ken Krawford]

This is actually a 2 part question:

1. I'm putting some veneer on a table from my boat. It has an irregular shape that is approximately 32" x 48" at it's widest points. I almost never use veneer and don't want to invest in a vacuum system. I assume that using a platen and cauls is the best way to get the veneer pressed while the glue sets up. Any suggestions on how thick the platen needs to be and how many cauls and their size & spacing? I'm also totally open to other methods too.

2. The table has what I suspect is a custom profile along the edge. The photo shows a 1/2" radius round over bit which is as close to the existing profile as I can get. I'm concerned about trimming the overhanging veneer especially as the bit goes cross grain. Any suggestions on how to trim the veneer?

Thanks in advance for your help.

326711

[Bill McDermott]

Ken, Maybe I am getting this wrong, but here are my thoughts...

1 - Your surface is so large that I would put a the table top on the floor and then put a couple sheets of plywood on top and then pile as many heavy things as I could gather on top. I have used mostly full paint cans with dumbbells and weights on top of them. I'm skeptical about the complexity and effectiveness of cauls and clamps -- given that this is a one time project.

2- Using a round cutter to feather out the veneer right at the edge most exposed to wear and tear seems risky. I'd like to see the edge proud of the underlayment so that the surface of the veneer finishes flush with the top of the solid edge trim. I that's not possible, I think I would cut a rabbet around the edge of the table and glue something solid in there to reinforce the transition from veneer to edge piece. That transition could even be a 1/8" grove filled with dyed epoxy. In any case, for a one time project you can do fair the curved and rounded edge by hand pretty quickly. I'd use a rasp, then a file and then sand the curve without worrying about finding the right router bit.

Good luck and smooth sailing.

Bill

[Keith Hankins]

got to joewoodworker.com. I started there and he made it easy. I built his system for a fraction of a comercial one. E-mails are always answered. He knows his stuff.

[jerry cousins]

i'm pretty skeptical about getting a good bond using platens & cauls on such a large surface - maybe gently curved cauls clamped at the ends and with all the weight that bill suggests - especially in the center - but even then. maybe best to find a shop near you that could vacuum it.
jerry

[Keith Hankins]

I'm with you.. A cheaper bag from Joe, is 4x4 110$. 140$ for a 4x6. He will make a custom size as well.

I laminate bed rails. Get the bag and vacuum it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22447246@N06/7618867832/in/album-72157632472603837/

[roger wiegand]

I've done large surfaces by coating each surface with yellow glue (eg titebond 1), allow it to dry, and then bond them with a household iron. The yellow glue reactivates with heat and sticks tight. I have pieces I did that way 30 years ago that are holding up fine. Saves all the hassle of clamping. Hammer veneering with hot hide glue is the other low cost/equipment way to go. I haven't had a chance to try anything really large that way yet, it's now my go-to method for small pieces (~18 in square).

[Michelle Rich]

I agree with Roger..with a surface that large & no vacuum equipment, it would be my go to approach. Either use the titebond, or go to Joe's site and get the glue especially made for ironing.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I've used the iron on method on large areas before, and I would say that if you've never done it before, chances are very good (better than 90%) that you'll get air bubbles under the veneer in places. You only get one shot at ironing it on, and if any areas don't bond, there will be bubbles.

[roger wiegand]

I've used the iron on method on large areas before, and I would say that if you've never done it before, chances are very good (better than 90%) that you'll get air bubbles under the veneer in places. You only get one shot at ironing it on, and if any areas don't bond, there will be bubbles.

I guess my experience is just the opposite. Bubbles while laying it down don't happen if you work from the center out, working the bubbles out as they want to occur. Because the glue is reversible it's not like contact cement, you can re-heat and reposition, at least locally. When I've had bubbles show up a day or so later (perhaps due to the glue not being dry enough and moisture under the veneer?), I put a pinhole in them and iron them flat, usually without a problem. Once I had an odd problem where I got a large, long bubble that I couldn't iron flat. I slit it with a razor, ironed down one edge, then the other on top and cut away the excess overlap with the blade, it made an essentially invisible repair. That only happened once in 40 years of using this method (albeit infrequently). Using hot hide glue make this all even easier which is why I've pretty much converted to that.

[Bill Orbine]

I've done large surfaces by coating each surface with yellow glue (eg titebond 1), allow it to dry, and then bond them with a household iron. The yellow glue reactivates with heat and sticks tight. I have pieces I did that way 30 years ago that are holding up fine. Saves all the hassle of clamping. Hammer veneering with hot hide glue is the other low cost/equipment way to go. I haven't had a chance to try anything really large that way yet, it's now my go-to method for small pieces (~18 in square).

Yes to this! I don't do this often but this works. It's a great on field technique. In addition to the iron and glue, consider using a roller or the hammer tool technique as you work from the center out. Be mindful that you need to lay the veneer down not more than a certain time limit AFTER the glue dries on both surfaces. I forget what time limit for each of the white, yellow and tirebond II, but I just lay'em as soon as glue dries for the freshess bond. I do remember the time limit being a matter of hours with the white glue having the longest and the Titebond II having the shortest time limit.

[Erik Christensen]

checkout other local woodworkers - I would let you toss in my vacuum bag for a 6-pak of quality malted beverage

[larry senen]

you could use a commercially available 2 ply veneer and contact cement the field.; tape off the edge of the table and the bottom of the 2 ply and go back and squirt yellow glue between them then clamp the edge with wide cauls. done this many times using 3 ply aircraft ply as a backing in my press to lay up all kinds of patterned tops.

[Alan Lightstone]

checkout other local woodworkers - I would let you toss in my vacuum bag for a 6-pak of quality malted beverage

Agreed. If you let us know where you are located, I'm sure there's someone willing to help out who's already equipped with a large enough vacuum bag and pump.

[Ken Krawford]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I posted a reply yesterday but it seems to have vanished.
Buying vacuum equipment for a single project is just not feasible. The idea of using glue and ironing it on is appealing. Is the Heatlock glue superior to Titebond? If not, which is better -Titebond I or Titebond II?

I sincerely appreciate the offers to share your vacuum presses. I've live in suburban Atlanta GA. if anyone one is interested.
Here's the veneer I bought. http://www.ebay.com/itm/252160866004?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
The description says "Flat cut Teak Veneer with a cross grain 2-ply backer. This is real wood with a 2-ply construction on it."
I'm not sure if that has any bearing on how it is affixed to the substrate or not.