Resaw a 12-inch maple board: how fast should I cut?

[Susumu Mori]

Hi all,

Today, I was resawing a 12-inch curly maple board.
My bandsaw is a Felder 510 with a 1-inch Laguna Resaw King.

The cut quality was quite excellent both in terms of the surfaces and the dimension (uniform thickness). I have no complaint about the quality.

However, I had two issues; it cut extremely slow and the saw dust turned brown (burned, I guess) with buildup of packed sawdust in the gullet.

During the cut, I tried not to push too hard, carefully paying attention to the amount of the bow; the blade doesn't touch the thrust bearing which was about 1/8-inch behind. Yet, I need to push the board quite hard and it moved like a snail.

So, I guess my question is, am I moving too slow or too fast?
If I need to go faster, I feel like I need to build more muscle.
If I need to go slower, that'll be painfully slow.

Or maybe should I not worry because the cut was quite good? But then the brown dust packed in the gullet is something expected? Would you recommend to clean it up before the next cut?

I would appreciate your advises.

[Patrick Harper]

It's possible you're getting a lot of friction from the fence. Have you tried applying some wax to the fence and table? Approximately how slow are we talking here? Did you time the feed rate?

[Jeff Duncan]

Simply put, you feed as fast as the blade will allow. When you start forcing things thats never good. Different blades will all feed a bit differently and the RSK is on the slower side as far as speed goes. Maple is a very hard and dense material and tends to burn pretty easily which was likely the brown in your dust. I'd also probably move the thrust bearing a bit further up. An eighth inch sounds like maybe a bit too much, I leave about half that.

good luck,
JeffD

[John Schweikert]

Is your bandsaw set to the highest blade speed?

Might be helpful: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/bandsaw-resawing-tips.html

[John Lankers]

Susumu, I'm having similar issues with my N4400 but not always, I keep the guides close to the blade though. It is like sawdust is not being moved down quick enough.
I'll hang around and see if how this thread goes.

[Tom M King]

You shouldn't have to push hard. I'd close up that thrust bearing gap. On my 24" Centauro with 1" Woodmaster CT 1.3, I have to let the blade touch the thrust bearings to get a clean cut with no saw marks. I tried both a Resaw King and a Trimaster on my 14" saw before I got the bigger one, and neither of those blades was great at clearing sawdust.

[Myk Rian]

How old is the blade, and is it sharp?

[Susumu Mori]

Thanks all.

This is my second Resaw King. Very new. The first one developed so much tar and burned. I cleaned often but never could get the initial sharpness. So, it went out for sharpening and I started to use the second one. So, sharpness should not be an issue.

I finished my second slice few minutes ago. The speed was about 3.5 inch/min. So, the 12x25 inch board took about 7.5 min! It was quite a work out.

Again, the cut quality was excellent. I didn't have to re-surface by a jointer because the surface came out quite flat and smooth. The dust in the gullet keeps building up. I suspect I have to clean it up once the current veneer project is done. I wonder if you need to clean the blade so often. It is just 8 bf.

Jeff pointed out Maple is tough one. So, if it is like the 12-inch board, even though the BS and the blade can handle it, I could be the weakest link? Now, I have to do two more veneers....

Maybe I should try more aggressive blades with bigger sets and gullets. The Resaw King has almost no sets and the saw dust clearance is clearly not its strength. For a wide and tough woods, probably I should try other blades for the speed, or maybe I'm still missing something.

Oh, as for the thrust guides, my experience was quite contrary; it cuts better (and quieter) without it. So I'm using it just to let me know that I'm pushing too much and prevent the teeth from touching the side guides. But again, maybe I'm missing something here too....

[Andrew Hughes]

I have never found a bandsaw blade Thats cuts the same for all the differant woods I use. Maybe your hard maple is not the perfect fit for the resaw King.
Now let's say you have some highly figured Mahogany or Water fall Bulbinga I bet you would be glad to have that blade on hand.:)

[Gregory Stahl]

Do you have sufficient dust collection? If I don't turn on my collector, I will have burned dust in my blade too and it will impact feed rate.

I have found my Resaw King is picky--I have to keep the saw tuned-up or performance will tank. Also, with the RK blade, I keep it lubed with a dry lubricant. In fact, I keep the spray can on the saw so it is always available (I apply a light coat by hand with a towel while manually turning the blade). I have no problem getting a great cut with this blade, and regularly re-saw 20" wide boards.

I would go through the whole saw: Clean the thing out including the tires, adjust the guides--I keep my guides tight by most peoples' standards. Get the fence set properly, and lube the blade. I do all of these when I am experiencing trouble. If I keep the saw in good order, the blade works great every time. I use my blade a lot too!

I have learned over time--never run the band saw without dust collection, not even for a quick small cut!

Best,
Greg Stahl

[John Lanciani]

I have a MM20 with a 1" 2-3TPI trimaster and that cut (12" x 25") maple would be about 30 - 45 seconds.

[Pat Barry]

I have a MM20 with a 1" 2-3TPI trimaster and that cut (12" x 25") maple would be about 30 - 45 seconds.
Thats quite a bit different than Susumu is experiencing. You are saying about 1/2" per second - he is saying about 1/3" per minute!
Something doesn't add up thats for sure.

Sususmu - if your gullets are filled with that brown stuff and it is difficult to remove then thats a problem that needs to be fixed - not sure dust collection can solve it. Is the wood dry?

[Myk Rian]

Oh, as for the thrust guides, my experience was quite contrary; it cuts better (and quieter) without it. So I'm using it just to let me know that I'm pushing too much and prevent the teeth from touching the side guides. But again, maybe I'm missing something here too....
Move the guides back a little. Then you can push on it.

[Myk Rian]

Oh, as for the thrust guides, my experience was quite contrary; it cuts better (and quieter) without it. So I'm using it just to let me know that I'm pushing too much and prevent the teeth from touching the side guides. But again, maybe I'm missing something here too....
Move the guides back a little. Then you can push on it.

[Susumu Mori]

Thank you all;

Here is what I'm going to do for some experiment;

> I'll lubricate the fence and table and maybe reduce the pressure by feather board a bit. See if it is due to friction.
> I'll use the thrust guide to see if it can help me pushing the blade against the wood. In my previous experience, once the blade touches the thrust guide, the blade buckles a bit and blade angle becomes little bit oblique to the wood, making the blade wonder ever-so-slightly depending on the amount of the pressure.
> I'll try other types of blades. Trimaster is too expensive (especially now that I invested on RK). Maybe I'll try Woodmaster B for the testing, unless you strongly recommend otherwise.

I'll keep you updated.

[Erik Loza]

I have a MM20 with a 1" 2-3TPI trimaster and that cut (12" x 25") maple would be about 30 - 45 seconds.

+1...

I would pony-up and get a Woodmaster CT or Tri-master. I've heard vendors say "just as good as the Lenox" but have yet to see that proof, myself. Sure, they cost more but what's your time and frustration worth? The Woodmaster CT is actually quite competitively priced, I find.

Erik

[Tom M King]

Cost for a 14'10" 1" Woodmaster CT 1.3 was $200.16. I can't imagine there is a "better" blade for resawing, but smallest size is 1".

[David Kumm]

I'd also make sure the tension is set high 25000+ as the RK is a thin band and any twist, however slight, when the stock is pushed can cause a little binding even if it doesn't show in the tracking or cut. 12" maple needs high tension and few teeth. I would guess my 3 tpi would be 1-2 seconds per inch at 6750 fpm. Dave

[Susumu Mori]

OK~, you guys convinced that I should throw Woodmaster CT into my mini-testing.
Looking at the spec, Woodmaster (1-inch) has significantly heavier backing (0.024 vs 0.035), wider kerf (0.041 vs 0.051), and teeth (3 vs 1.3 or 2 tpi).
Speaking of dust clearance, these should be quite different. We'll see.

Any recommendation about 1.3 or 2 tpi?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Susumu, I would go with the 1.3t.

This is resawing, you're not expecting a flawless finish.................Rod.

[Tom M King]

I tried both a Resaw King, and a Trimaster on my 14" saw. The Woodmaster 1.3 gives up nothing to either on surface finish quality. That's comparing 1/2" blades to a 1" blade on different saws, but still, if your saw can provide the force to tension a 1" blade, there is no need to fear the quality of the 1.3.

[Erik Loza]

1.0" Lenox Tri-master finish quality on Lyptus...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Bandsaw%20Works/SeparatingstripsofLyptus.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Bandsaw%20Works/SamplestripsofLyptus.jpg

Erik

[Glenn de Souza]

Susumu,
My experience is that brown, toasted sawdust is an indicator of a either a dull blade or excessive heat buildup in the saw kerf or a combination of both. Since you're quite certain your blade is sharp, I'm going with the theory that there is not enough air in the kerf. The kerf should ideally have an optimal blend of air and sawdust. On thick cuts, that's why you want large gullets, low tooth counts and appropriate set. In your case, there may be too much dust and not enough air and this is restricting your feed rate and turning the sawdust brown from heat. I'm not familiar enough with the RK blade to know the tooth count, gullet size or set. I'd be interested to hear your experience if you go get a low tooth count, coarse blade and try the cut again. Get a <$20 carbon steel blade like I'm describing. The Lenox NEO or Flex Back carbon steel or Starrett would do fine. There should be a place convenient to you that welds them from bulk stock. I'll bet your cutting will become much easier and enjoyable, and then you can clean up the boards minimally on your Hammer A3-31 and Bob's Your Uncle.

Changing subjects, I have a Lenox Tri-Master in the 1/2" size and there's no doubt, it leaves a great surface, but I would say the set is so minimal that I notice sawdust packed in the cut when I finish and open the resawn board. For what that blade cost, I reserve it for veneer or some situation where it is truly important to have a fine(er) surface right off the saw. Otherwise, I use carbon steel blades with greater (but not too much) set and then run the resawn boards through the planer for final dimensioning and clean up. Honestly, I think there is too much hype over carbide tipped bandsaw blades and they have their drawbacks, although I suppose it depends on your application.

The other day, I picked up a Lenox NEO carbon steel 3/8" 4tpi blade that gave me beautiful cuts resawing 6" Alder and Maple, no difference on exotic woods either. That blade cost $14 in 130" for a Meber saw.

Also, I'd set your upper guides tight, and keep the thrust bearing back no further than 1/32" or 1/16" at the most. Hoping this helps,

[Tom M King]

I had never used carbide tipped bandsaw blades before I got a job that we needed to resaw 8,000 lineal feet of Cypress for. I found that a Timberwolf blade lasted about 20 minutes of cutting to be able to feed at it's fastest speed. The carbide tipped blades are ready for much more still after doing almost all of that job when I gave up on the regular blades. So it depends on how much you will resaw, or if you might never want to put another blade on a machine for resawing in a hobby setting.

[Jeff Duncan]

I'd say your RSK is not performing as it should…..there's no way it should take 7 minutes to re-saw a 24" long board! I have a couple RSK's and they are slow which is the primary reason I don't use them anymore, but not that slow. I think I've been using a Woodmaster blade recently on the saw and it works very well for the taller re-sawing with a reasonable life. As your re-sawing gets taller you want less teeth on the blade, though that's not to say you won't be able to cut with more, just a matter of speed of feed and cut quality. I had to change out my blade to cut a couple 10" wide pieces of curly maple for some guitar backs last week. All I had on hand was a 1/2" blade with maybe 3 teeth per inch or so. It cut through the maple just fine and then went on and cut a bunch of Ipe parts as well. If I had to guess I'd say it probably took about 2 minutes or so to cut through each 10"w x 28"l blank. I'd try out one of the Bi-Metal blades and see how you make out. They're less than half of what a carbide costs and the life is pretty reasonable.

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

How many teeth per inch on that resaw King? For 12" resaw 2 tpi is about the max I'd want to go, I'm using a vari tooth Lenox diemaster, 1", it's like 1.2-2tpi IIR, sure cuts faster than 25" in 7 minutes....at that pace I'm surprised the saw dust isn't smouldering!

Another odd odd phenomon Ive encountered, sometimes when resawing against a tall solid fence the tension released by the wood can cause the wood to bow, the fence fixes one side so the pressure gets exerted to the blade and acts like a clamp, requires a lot of force to over come. You didn't mention the thickness of your resaw that I recall, is this veneer or thicker material?

[Mel Fulks]

I agree with getting bigger tooth blade, can't suffer slow resawing on anything but extremely precious material.

[David Tolsky]

For me I get a feel for how the blade is slicing through the hardwood and I base my feed rate accordingly. I use a Woodslicer 3/4" on my Grizzly 16" bs. Knowing when to replace or sharpen the blade always helps too :)

[Peter Aeschliman]

If the gullets are packed with burnt dust, that generally means that either the gullets aren't big enough (aka your tooth count isn't low enough), or your feed rate is too fast. The blade is not able to clear all of the saw dust out of the cut.

It's pretty clear that your feed rate is not too fast.

Therefore, you need more gullet (lower tooth count).

Obligatory youtube link on this subject, which was super enlightening to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK9m5PadmiI

[mark mcfarlane]

...
Obligatory youtube link on this subject, which was super enlightening to me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK9m5PadmiI

Awesome video, thanks for sharing.

[Andrew Hughes]

I don't agree with Mattew on this one there should be some dust popping out on the table when resawing or basic cutting with a bandsaw.When the dust starts looking black it means the blade is getting dull.
The Resaw King has no set when laguna changed from stellite to Carbide seemed like thier blade started cutting slower.I stopped using them.Im sure they last longer if they get the grind right.Well worth the money if you have expensive exocit wood to cut.
I use the Woodmaster Ct and regular steel blades.Most don't sharpen their blades enough including myself.

[Susumu Mori]

Hi all,

I'm a bit embarrassed to report this, but here is the update.
Following the Patrick's suggestion, I waxed the tall (8-inch) fence, the table, and also the blade thoroughly by paste wax.

Wow, what a difference! Now I can feel the cutting action much better; I can feel when I should back up a bit as the resistance builds up and when it is ready for faster feed.

The result is, cutting within 2 min (25-inch board length). So now I can go 12 inches within 1 min. I don't have any complaint about it. Not sure how long the blade can do this pace but so far so good.

Now that Woodmaster CT is on the way, I'll report the difference once I get my hands on it.

Thanks!

[Tom M King]

I think your rate of feed will do a little better than double when the Woodmaster gets going.