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Larry Beyer
09-03-2005, 9:36 AM
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Never used a wipe on finish before.

On the inside of the cabinet I have two coats BLO cut 50/50 with mineral spirits.

For a protective finish I just tried wipe on poly, 3 coats about an hour apart. Looks OK for the inside. Sure do like the ease of application.

Many people on the forums state the are not keen on wipe on poly…they like something else instead. So…for the outside I would like to try something else.

QUESTION: Is there a wipe on varnish or can you cut regular varnish to wipe it on? Anybody got a specific name of a product that will work? Are all wipe on products applied about an hour apart or can the time with varnish be longer?

Thanx in advance

Ralph Barhorst
09-03-2005, 11:04 AM
I have used a wipe-on varnish several times and I really like it. It requires that you put on more coats than with a brushed on varnish due to the thickness of the coats. The big advantage is that it dries quickly which means that very little dust will settle on the varnish and many coats can be done in one day. There are also no streaks or runs.

My wipe-on varish was Min-Wax fast drying poly cut with mineral spirits.

I don't normally use varnish inside of cabinets, blanket chests, or on the inside of drawers. It takes forever to get rid of the smell of the varnish. I would use Zinsser Bull's Eye Sealcoat for the inside. This is really a shellac and works fine.

Jim Becker
09-03-2005, 11:06 AM
You can cut any varnish...remember, polyurethane varnish is...varnish. The other two types are phenolic and alkyd, with the latter most common. Those materials refer to the resin used as one of the ingredients.

BTW, using any of these on the interior of a cabinet is generally not a good idea...they will off-gas FOREVER. Shellac is a better choice for the interiors both to seal the wood and to seal in the odor that the BLO will also off-gas...FOREVER... ;)

Mike Cutler
09-03-2005, 1:07 PM
I've been using General Finishes. Wipe on Varnishes for a series of projects I've been doing.
The first, a flood coat, has been The Seal-A-Cell product and the top coat(s) have been Arm-R Seal. They have worked great. The only problem I encountered was that the temp's in the shop got too high, and I was getting streaking.
An tour between coats seems too fast. I was giving 6-8 hours minimum, and 24 hours for the final top coats

Larry Beyer
09-03-2005, 7:36 PM
You can cut any varnish...remember, polyurethane varnish is...varnish. The other two types are phenolic and alkyd, with the latter most common. Those materials refer to the resin used as one of the ingredients.

BTW, using any of these on the interior of a cabinet is generally not a good idea...they will off-gas FOREVER. Shellac is a better choice for the interiors both to seal the wood and to seal in the odor that the BLO will also off-gas...FOREVER... ;)

Bad news for me. Sounds like I screwed up twice. Thanx for the warning.
The problem with not knowing what you are doing is that you dont know what to do or dont do...
Q. Can i put shellack over the poly?
Q. For future ref can I put shellack over the BLO?
Q. Is there such a thing as wipe on shellack?
Q. Exactly what is BTW as stated in your second paragraph?

Dan Gill
09-03-2005, 7:52 PM
As Jim said, any varnish cut with mineral spirits can be a wiping varnish. I've had very good results with Arm-R-Seal, but also good results with cut Minwax. As for the off-gassing, that can be true, but I didn't have much trouble with my kitchen cabinets. Perhaps it was the heat in my garage, but we really couldn't notice any smell a week or so after we brought them into the house. I can't say the same thing for my Mission dressers - I finished the drawers with shellac, but the cabinet parts have Arm-R-Seal. They're closed up a lot, I guess, and still smell like Arm-R-Seal when I open up.

Cecil Arnold
09-03-2005, 9:49 PM
Larry, you can put shellac over almost anything, it's a great seal coat and will even seal pine knots to prevent bleed-through.

Jim Becker
09-03-2005, 10:06 PM
BTW means "by the way"...

As Ceil mentioned, Shellac is pretty much a "universal" finish that can cover almost anything. If you plan on putting it UNDER other finishes, however, you should use de-waxed shellac if that top coat will be polyurethane (which doesn't like to stick to itself even...) or water bourne finishes. Shellac would be an excellent choice to cover the BLO and seal in the "flavor", as it were...

Martin Shupe
09-04-2005, 12:08 PM
Larry,

Another option is Waterlox. It is a Varnish...I forget if it is alkoid or phenolic, but it is not poly.

I like it, it wipes on well, and will stick to itself without surface prep.

I use the Original sealer/finish...which is plenty shiney for me, if you use 3 coats.

I do 2 coats of BLO, then 2-3 coats of Waterlox until it looks right.

Do a search for Waterlox to turn up more posts.

Jim Becker
09-04-2005, 2:03 PM
I believe Waterlox is phenolic resin varnish. I do like it and use it a lot on my turnings. (Original formula) I also finished the small walnut side table top in my office that I posted about awhile back with this product...about 10 coats wiped on over the course of a few days.

Martin Shupe
09-05-2005, 12:12 AM
Thanks, Jim...I was "at the office" when I wrote that, and didn't have time to look it up.

Larry Beyer
09-05-2005, 9:42 AM
I think I will try the shellack over the poly.
Can the Shellack be cut with mineral spirits for wipe on? If so, is the proportion 50/50? And finally, how long between coats?

Jim Becker
09-05-2005, 10:38 AM
Can the Shellack be cut with mineral spirits for wipe on? If so, is the proportion 50/50? And finally, how long between coats?

No...shellac is "cut" with alcohol. Mineral spirits will ruin it. Shellac is also not like varnish. If you brush, you normall use one coat and adjust the thickness of the finish by the cut of the material. (ratio of shellac flakes to alcohol) The stuff in the can from the 'borg...Zissner Seal Coat, for example...is a three pound cut in the can. If you are wiping you can use a thiner cut, but don't dwell on an area...one wipe and move on, keeping a wet edge. If you miss a spot, catch it on the next application. Do NOT try and wipe over it while the surrounding material is flashing off (the alcohol evaporates) or you'll have a mess.

If you plan on top coating with anything polyurethane or water bourne, you also must use de-waxed shellac. The Zissner Seal Coat mentioned above is de-waxed. The other shellac products on the shelf at the 'borg are not. Once you start using shellac, I also recommend you start mixing your own from flakes. You have a lot more choices available in "color" and you don't have waste that way...mixed shellac has a shelf life.

Steve Schoene
09-05-2005, 6:10 PM
Just a few points. I think you'll find Seal Coat is 2 lb. cut, in contrast to the tradional shellac which is 3 lb.

I think I'd dissagree with the attempt to brush on a single coat of shellac. One coat of three pound cut isn't enough for many projects, and heavier cuts seem awfully hard to brush. I use a Golden Taklon brush and just move quickly almost in one direction. You can't go back and pick up a missed spot or other defect. But you can still put on multiple coats with no additional difficulties IF you keep moving--applying the finish in one direction only. That way you don't lift or disturb prior coats. No matter how you apply the shellac you end up with essentially one fused together coat in the end. BTW thats great for rubbing out since you reveal no "witness lines" or "contour lines" that can happen when rubbing out reactive finishes such as varnish.

Larry Beyer
09-08-2005, 8:19 AM
Thanx everyone. Got my direction, now to just do it.
lcb