Threaded inserts

[Peter Blair]

Does anyone know of a demo or step by step regarding turning and threading wooden inserts?
I really want to include them in my boxes and am sure I can 'learn' on the go but as usual I would like to cut to the chase as it were.
I have seen lots of hand chasing and jig chasing demos and Utube vids but wonder if anyone has done one just on making inserts to insert?

[Peter Fabricius]

Hi Pete,
Not exactly sure which part of threading you need.
I have the Jig from England that makes a 16 tpi thread, I think you have it as well?
With this jig you can easily make inserts for any hollow form or Urn.
Here is a couple of pictures of a hollow form with an insert and threaded Fineal.
Peter F.

[Russell Neyman]

If anyone is looking for brass threaded insert hardware (see photo of a small hollow form below) I finally found them at Lee Valley.
326404
This project measures 2.5" X 4", is made from figured Pacific Yew, with a Taqua Nut lid.

[David Walser]

Years ago Allan Batty made a video on hand chasing threads. It was sold by Craft Supplies USA in VHS and DVD formats. About a year ago, CSUSA, put the entire video on YouTube. If you want to learn how to hand chase threads, it's a good place to start.

[Len Mullin]

Blair, have you checked out the videos the Wyoming Woodturner (Sam Angelo) has posted on You-Tube? He does a lot of threaded turnings videos, you might find what your looking for there.
Len

[Bill Bulloch]

Mike Piece has a youtube video demonstrating the jig that Peter refers to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BEVkDnkZ0I

[John Brown]

Russell, could you give a part no. or how to find the thread inserts at Lee Valley, I couldn't find them.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks everyone! Yes, Peter is right I have the jig he referred to and it works well. I am just a little unsure of the process of making and inserting threaded sections into items. For instance, I have a very fragile turned hollow form which was made using some of the process of Harvey Fein. I am looking at it and am certain I could not insert any material now and thread it either by jig or by hand so I was wondering if I could thread a section first and insert it or possibly I should just forget the thread and glue in a finial. Not really sure. The Wyoming Wood Turner and his site are one of my favourites and sure enough I have watched his threading Utube videos. The sort of thing I was thinking about is how thick should the walls of a threaded insert be? if I wanted to fill a 1.5" hole with a threaded section, how large would the male threaded section wind up. That sort of thing. I think I will just have to get started and see where it takes me.

[Russell Neyman]

Russell, could you give a part no. or how to find the thread inserts at Lee Valley, I couldn't find them.

John, these have become very hard to find, recently, haven't they? Lee Valley's part numbers on the two sizes available are 88K74.09 and 88K74.10.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32874&cat=1,250,43243

[Mike Peace]

Mike Mahoney published an article on lidded urns in Spring 2001 American Woodturner. AAW members have full access to every issue of the AW on line. He covers techniques on inserts.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks Mike. I have a digital copy and will see if what he suggests will work for me. One of the things that I am wondering about is if I have some flat sections of good threading wood how would them be best turned into round discs that could be pre threaded or inserted and then threaded. For some reason all I can think of using are larger sections that could be turned round and then threaded and parted off . . . .

[Peter Fabricius]

Hi Pete,
Just a couple of tricks to make be inserts without having them in the fragile hollow form.

1. Put a small blank in a chuck, bowl orientation, turn it round to become the insert.
Drill a 7/8" hole (the absolute smallest hole that will work with the 3/4" cutter is just larger than 3/4".
Thread this insert piece, female thread, having sized the outside diameter to fit the hollow form (1.5" I think you said).
[You might want to make a "holding piece, threaded 7/8" male thread to hold your insert for additional shaping/ sizing]

2. Put the fineal base in the chuck (bowl orientation) for a 7/8" male thread with a nice shape to fit the shape of the hollow form. Drill a 3/8" hole in the top of the base for the Fineal to fit into.
[you might want to make a small scrap female threaded block to hold the Fineal base for final shaping]

3. Turn a Fineal as per usual and size the tenon to fit into the threaded base section, 3/8" tenon.

You now have four threaded parts that you can use for threaded inserts. Two are the actual parts and two are scrap holding blocks that can be used for future inserts.

Hope this helps.
Peter F.

[Peter Blair]

Thanks Peter et al. I did look at the Mike Mahoney article but it really doesn't provide the help I was looking for.
Peter, thanks for taking the time to put your note together. I guess I am a little thick but I can't quite figure out your method but will print your email and try to work through it in my shop over the next while.
Say if I have a 2" diameter small box and want to add threaded inserts and I have some suitable threadable wood such as holly but he holly is a thin board (3/16").
First I am guessing that I need to roughly turn the box with a tenon on both ends.
Part the box where I want the lid
Now what? How exactly do I prepare the lid and base?
How do I make the inserts male and female to insert?
Do I have the option of threading first or should I only consider threading after the holly is inserted?
I do have the tools and I believe the skill to figure this out by trial and error but was hoping someone else has already done or is doing this process and shorten my learning curve with their experience.
I'm pretty busy just now so doubt I will get to this before Christmas and am away on vacation early in Jan so I have lots and lots of time to contemplate the steps.

[Reed Gray]

The only way I can think of to do that would be to first, turn the insert to fit into the hollow form, then thread it by mounting it in a waste block of some sort, then glue it into the hollow form. If you were threading with one of the mechanical threading set ups, then you probably should have done that first, then finished the hollow form. You might be able to cut the threads first, then cut the male threads on a waste block, thread the insert onto the waste block, and turn the outside to fit the hollow form. On a side note, 1 1/2 inch diameter is the extreme end for solid wood threaded boxes. There is enough movement in a piece that size that it can move for a less than perfect fit. I had some in that range and went to a much drier place for a show. All the boxes in that size moves. The lids would come off, but it was loose, snug, loose, snug for one revolution. Funny thing, when I got them back home, they stayed that way, and I always rough turn boxes and let them 'adjust' before I finish turn them.

I do use the Bonnie Klein method for when I make threaded boxes. I have a bunch of pine on locking nuts for waste blocks. They have the female threads for inserting the box bottom so I can finish turn the bottom of the box after parting it off the waste block. I have thought, more than once, I need to do male waste blocks for when I need to touch up the lids rather than putting the lid on the box while the base is still on the waste block.

robo hippy

[Peter Fabricius]

It was the use of threaded waste blocks that I was trying to explain. Reed notes that you should shape the insert to size and then thread it.... This will not work if the thickness of the insert is very thin as was the one I showed in my HF picture. The little ring insert width was just about 3/16" and it would have cracked if trying to thread it so thin. I held it in a chuck and drilled it, then threaded it and screwed it onto a male threaded waste block. This allowed me to shape the ring to fit into the HF.
I do the same for the threaded base piece where the Fineal will set into. The tenon needs to be held securely for threading and set into a female waste block for shaping the top curve. I guess the whole Fineal could be turned while holding the piece by its threaded tenon.
Peter F.

[Marvin Hasenak]

Drill a 7/8" hole (the absolute smallest hole that will work with the 3/4" cutter is just larger than 3/4".


I found smaller and larger cutters, down to a 5/16" diameter and up to 2.25". Prices are reasonable on the smaller ones, you will get sticker shock on the larger ones. https://www.maritool.com/Cutting-Tools-Keyseat-/-Milling-Cutters-Chamfer-Milling-Cutters-Double-Angle-HSS-Chamfer-Mills/c78_231_237_239_277/index.html

[Peter Blair]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all the ideas and especially the step by step that you guys share!!
Marvin, these are cool cutters, which of the smaller sizes have you found useful?

[Marvin Hasenak]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all the ideas and especially the step by step that you guys share!!
Marvin, these are cool cutters, which of the smaller sizes have you found useful?

I made some old style wood screwdrivers with the screw off cap for the inserts. The 1/2" was the best fit for them. For needle cases for the quilters in the family I found that I like to use the 3/8". I already had the 3/4" so when I ordered I went down in sizes and bought those. I saw no reason for the 5/16 and so far haven't needed anything smaller than the 3/8.

I found that they cut real clean threads on PVC pipe, and if you buff the PVC with a clean hard cotton wheel it looks pretty good. Here is a nut driver set I made using PVC as a ferule to keep the tool end from splitting. On this one the I did not hollow out the handle. I could not find my pics for the screw drivers, but they look like this with a partially hollow handle with a screw cap.
327142

[Peter Fabricius]

Marvin,
That is great info! I have thought about using a smaller cutter but I have not yet really needed one so I had not looked.
I think the 3/8" cutter would be a good size because that will cut anything bigger.
I will have to suggest this to Craig at Chefware Kits and he may offer it with the new Interrupted threading jig being developed as we speak.
I have a prototype model here and it makes a very impressive "bayonet style" mount for a threaded box or any other project where the convenience of a 1/4 turn to close is needed. Very cool jig!!!
Peter F.

[Peter Blair]

Thank Marvin. At present I do needle cases with friction fit tops but would love to make them with threaded lids. Is it the 60 degree ones you use?

[Marvin Hasenak]

All I have are the 60 degree cutters. I started to buy a 90, but all of my research shows the 60 degree is the one being used so I skipped them. But if I ever buy again I will buy a couple just to see what happens.

[Peter Blair]

Marvin, I'm unclear of the exact difference between the two, Yep, I know it's 30 degrees but does this mean that the 60 degree one would make a thread that is more or less pointed than the 90, For reasons that are pretty obvious if one is threading a softer wood I would suspect that the less pointed thread the more likely it would stand up better? Are typical metal taps 60 or 90 or do you know?

[Peter Fabricius]

I just took another look at the Maritool web site and the Double bevel chamfer cutter in the 3/8" size.
The cutter diameter is 3/8" and the shank is 3/8" with a short reduced diameter between the shank and the cutter....
This means that you are limited to the number of threads that can be cut before the cutter runs into the shank.
Perhaps not a problem if you just want to cut short threads on needle cases etc. But if you need longer threads then this will not do it.
It is not like the 3/4" cutter that can cut longer threaded sections like a bolt (I think Tim Yoder did this)!
Just thinking out loud and looking for comments.
Peter F.

[Peter Blair]

Hey Guys, Just looked this up on another thread here and in that discussion it was claimed that wood threads are best at 90 so I think I'll get a couple and try them. Peter, all I will likely ever need or want it for short threads if I want to do a bolt I think I could set up my jig with a router and do as long a threaded rod as I could properly support. . . .

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic.

[Dale Bonertz]

Look up Foxy Woods. He sells wood inserts that are threaded.

[Marvin Hasenak]

Hey Guys, Just looked this up on another thread here and in that discussion it was claimed that wood threads are best at 90 so I think I'll get a couple and try them. Peter, all I will likely ever need or want it for short threads if I want to do a bolt I think I could set up my jig with a router and do as long a threaded rod as I could properly support. . . .

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic.

Here is an article from 1953 that you might be interested in. Can't be done on the lathe, but it works. I used to have a set up like this to make wooden bolts for the kids. I am sure I probably still have it somewhere. https://books.google.com/books?id=JNwDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA201&dq=drill%20press%20router&lr=&num=50&as_brr=1&pg=PA201#v=onepage&q=drill%20press%20router&f=false

[Peter Blair]

Dale, couldn't find them but boy oh boy do some 'interesting' sites come up when I google Foxy Woods . . .

[Peter Blair]

Peter, nasty nasty to give us such a small taste of what is coming. I for one can vaguely remember a previous post somewhere regarding this new jig and can't think of any reason why I don't want one. Sounds like the very best way to put lids on EVERYTHING!!!