incra miter 1000SE vs miter saw?

[Brian Sommers]

Here is my dilemma.

I have a nice TS.
I'm going to be making a lot of picture frames.

At Amazon they have the Incra Miter 1000SE for $160
or
I could get me this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V5Z6RG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_4&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
for only $119

Right now I'm tight on money, so I'm leaning toward the Miter saw.

Advice/thoughts?

[Prashun Patel]

For picture frames, I would use the tablesaw. I find it more accurate than my miter saw. YMMV.


The Incra miter SE is a wonderful miter gauge. I have it. It's extremely accurate. As with all Incra products, you have to be ok with using the included hex driver to loosen/tighten the knobs. It's a good buy. If you wanted the ultimate in accuracy, you could get the HD which has 1 degree detents and stops. Incra quality and repeatability can be trusted.


If you have to make a lot of frames, I would go one step further and BUILD a dedicated 45 deg cross cut miter sled. It will pay dividends for you. Use your Incra SE to build that sled.

[Matt Day]

Shop build sled would be my vote.

[Victor Robinson]

Agree that a good miter gauge or well-built sled on a table saw will be more accurate than a cheaper miter saw.

That being said I used to own that Hitachi before upgrading and it is a hell of miter saw for the price. Not necessarily for fine work like picture frames though.

[Garth Almgren]

I have a C10FCE2 and it's a good chop saw for the price, but for accuracy's sake a good miter gauge or a shop-built miter sled (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=miter+sled) would probably serve you better.

[Art Mann]

I have used both and I have to agree with all the others. If you want the smoothest and most accurate cut you can get, use the table saw. The 1000SE is very accurate if calibrated properly but it doesn't hold the work piece nearly as stable as a dedicated miter sled. The key to good results is making the sled dead accurate. There are many free on line plans and instructions to help you do that. I have been using my latest home made sleds for over 10 years now and they still provide near perfect cut quality and accuracy.

[Brian Tymchak]

Brian, I sent you a PM.

[M Toupin]

I'd vote neither. A miter trimmer (https://mvflaim.wordpress.com/2015/01/22/using-a-lion-miter-trimmer/) is the tool if you're looking for perfect glass smooth and chip out free joints. It's also the tool every frame shop I've ever been in uses for just that reason. A bench top like the venerable Lion Trimmer can often be picked up used for very little. Though the original Lion is no longer made they show up quite often used but if you're on a deadline there are several company's making clones such as Rockler & Grizzly. Great for picture frames and anything else you want a perfect miter or even 90 degrees.

Mike

[Ole Anderson]

I ruined a perfectly good Woodpeckers clamping square to get my perfect picture frame sled. Since the pic, I have extended the legs with wood to make it more usable. I have a 1000SE and never use it anymore since I discovered sleds.

[Frederick Skelly]

Buy the Incra miter gauge. I have a good CMS and my Incra is more accurate for that kiind of work.

[Dave Zellers]

+1 on the Incra miter gauges. I have both the Incra Miter 5000 sled and the 1000HD miter gauge. They're pretty awesome.

[Mike Cutler]

Brian

Given the choice between the two, I'd pick the Incra. But,,,,, if you're going to be making a lot of frames, it's a sled that you really should be leaning toward.
Either the Miter saw, or Incra will "statistically" make 45 degree angles, but you need either absolutely perfect 45 degree angle, or complimentary angles that equal 90 degrees. Fractions of a degree off, and you won't be happy with your miters.
A dedicated sled will give you every bit as good a 45 degree angle as the Incra or miter, but it will also facilitate making complimentary angles to account for any fractional amount of a degree off between the two joining pieces.
It might take you a full day to make a nice sled, but you'll be glad you did in the end. ;)
I have a friend that is a professional framer and he has a pretty serious investment in equipment to make picture frames.It seems easy on paper, but........

[Terry Beadle]

I bought a Kregg Miter fence several years ago.

See on Amazon : http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-KMS7102-Table-Precision-System/dp/B0002QZ4RG/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1449241614&sr=1-1&keywords=kreg+miter

It's dead accurate and at the price a real bargain IMO.

I also made a 45 TS sled. I use it to get the rough cut and then go to a 45 hand plane jig for the finish fitting.

The Kregg will let you do fractions of a degree so you can really dial it in.

That being said, for production and normal "quality" picture frames, the TS sled method is the best and I might add, being Scottish (hoot!) the cheapest.

Enjoy the process and the product!

[Rich Engelhardt]

I'd vote neither. A miter trimmer (https://mvflaim.wordpress.com/2015/01/22/using-a-lion-miter-trimmer/) is the tool if you're looking for perfect glass smooth and chip out free joints. It's also the tool every frame shop I've ever been in uses for just that reason. A bench top like the venerable Lion Trimmer can often be picked up used for very little. Though the original Lion is no longer made they show up quite often used but if you're on a deadline there are several company's making clones such as Rockler & Grizzly. Great for picture frames and anything else you want a perfect miter or even 90 degrees.

Mike+1 to what Mike posted.
I used to do a lot of craft related stuff years ago. A number of the places I had to go to offered custom frames.
None of them used any power tools at all. All cuts were done with a miter box and then cleaned up & fit using a Lion trimmer.
I had no idea at the time what the name of the thing was that cleaned up the cuts, but, I found out a few years ago here at SMC that they were Lion trimmers.

[Ben Rivel]

So this is the first time Ive heard of a miter trimmer and I must say that is intriguing. Would one be used to clean up a 45 degree miter cut (say done on a table saw or SCMS), or would it be used to actually make the cut?

[Rich Engelhardt]

Clean up.
The Lion Trimmer shaves of slices - similar to how a shooting board shaves off slices.

[Stan Calow]

Ben I use a miter saw, but everyone one of the frames I've made needed a lot of tweaking with a miter trimmer. The trimmer is great for sneaking up to a good fit. But its for cleaning up, not for the initial angled cut. Even though the blades are ver sharp, its hand powered and you have to push it through a cut. A miter saw is too inaccurate by itself.
I am planning to make a sled and try to trim on the table saw next time to compare.

[Jim Dwight]

I have an Osborne gauge for the table saw (which I recommend, must larger triangulation than the Incra) and a couple CMSs but I couldn't reliably get a decent picture frame without a shoot board for my block plane to trim the miters. Even with the board it wasn't easy. I think the lion trimmer is a good suggestion if you plan to make many picture frames. The other methods will get you close but you need a way to take off a tiny fraction of an inch reliably. That is the role of the trimmer.

[Harvey Miller]

It may not help, but here’s how they do it in the old world. It’s a shop I noticed strolling in Venice. I’m pretty sure the guy’s doing picture frames.

326571

(In the blow ups I could spot a tablesaw under the dust hood, the miter saw, a scroll saw on the right side bench with a gent’s saw in front of it.)

[Cary Falk]

I use a 1000SE. Perfect frames every time. My Craftsman miter saw is horrible.

[jack duren]

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I use both, Both work fine. A well tuned miter saw will cut as good when used correctly.

I use a Dewalt 708 with a factory blade and I'm - or + 1/32 on the final cut.

[jack duren]

Another option if you can find one http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/5333320914.html..

[Kent Adams]

I'd never heard of a lion trimmer before so I looked it up. What I found is probably this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQhktaEgWhQ

Looks like Rockler sells them too: http://www.rockler.com/miter-trimmer

If the results from the video are typical, that thing is far more accurate than me using an Incra. I don't think the Incra is inaccurate, however, the method may be more likely to introduce user error. However, there must be operator skill involved in this trimmer that isn't being conveyed here.

[Tom M King]

I've had a Lion Trimmer for decades, but it never gets pulled out of its box since I got a shooting plane, and built a board. Make offer on Lion Trimmer.

[Bill McDermott]

Just a suggestion to glue some sandpaper to the sacrificial board you use on your 1000SE. It always helps, but I find it absolutely necessary when cutting 45's. Otherwise, the work piece wants to move.

[Keith Hankins]

I've had my 1000se for years. One of the best addons to the TS IMO! You can dial those degree's in and with the flip stops you can shorten a piece by a thou at a time. Amazing accuracy.

This past year I upgraded to the 5000, and love that too. All their stuff is top notch. more versatile to the miter saw. Don't get me wrong, I have a miter saw and it has it purpose, but if framing is your game you want the 1000se.

[Jared Sankovich]

I just happened to see this thread the other day as i was making a frame. Being that i had a 1000se that i sort of just ended up with i decided to try it out. Kind of slow and fiddly at first but i cant argue with the results.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/jar944/rps20151208_212558_427_zps9tkg6qwh.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/jar944/rps20151208_212619_432_zpsiagsuskt.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/jar944/rps20151208_212703_686_zpsprtiqjr4.jpg

[johnny means]

+1 on sleds. Sleds can be set up with stops for repeatability. As far as "glass smooth cuts", IMO, glue surfaces should be a little on the toothy side