CA glue on a wooden plane

[mark kosse]

Howdy all,

I just received a fine Sandusky 19 that is in great shape for its age. It came from Cleveland OH so I'm glad when it finally decided to grow up and move away from home it chose me. The blade is rust free and and has very little hammer rash on the top. The striking knob is in similar shape showing very little signs of use. The ends shows only traces of small cracks and so does the sole, but they are very tight. Hairline really. One side was probably viciously attacked by a 6 years old and a awl but it doesn't look bad at all.

id still like to fix the cracks. I'm thinking ca is my best best due to the thin viscosity and it's availability. I've come to really like ca on wood. Good move or bad?

Thanks

[jeffp whitaker]

Mark, I use CA all the time on wood. It is my "go to" for gap filling, use fine saw dust or talcum powder. If you want a darker look use instant coffee. A little accelerator can speed things up. Just don't glue any of your body parts to the bench DAMHIK! :eek:

[michael osadchuk]

Howdy all,

....... The ends shows only traces of small cracks and so does the sole, but they are very tight. Hairline really. .....I'd still like to fix the cracks.

I'm thinking ca is my best best due to the thin viscosity and it's availability. I've come to really like ca on wood. Good move or bad?

Thanks


If the cracks are hairline/tight, do you mean no opening.... if so, how would any glue or filler penetrate below the surface and, if not, do any good?

If there is a crack=opening, I would use slow curing epoxy, warmed to temporarily reduce the viscosity so that the epoxy gets into the opening. Any glue to the sole of the plane is very likely going to mean scraping and rewaxing of the sole.

just my thoughts

Michael

[jeffp whitaker]

Thin CA will penetrate far better than epoxy. Don't get me wrong I like and use epoxy in a lot of places and you don't have to warm it to thin it. Mix rubbing alcohol (not denatured alcohol) up to 20% of the mix to thin it.

[Allan Speers]

CA glue reportedly doesn't make a permanent bond. It starts to slowly disintegrate after a number of years. (I don't remember how many.)

Thus, I would use heated epoxy.

[mark kosse]

Thanks for the replies. Jeff your thinking like me, which is why I asked the question. Allen, I agree and fully understand epoxies superiority. I just don't happen to have any longer than 30 minute set and it's fairly thick, even heated. I guess I could of added xylylene to thin it but I decided to go with superglue. I didn't get much penetration but I saw a need to be proactive. I applied, let it soak, scraped the excess and will BLO it in a week or so.

since this isn't a museum piece my goal is to get it in the best working shape I can. Judging by the penetration I got it was already there.

[Zach Dillinger]

Having repaired / rehabbed more than my share of wooden planes, I would recommend leaving the cracks alone. Unless they impair the function of the plane (namely they are right in front of the mouth and grab shavings), the cracks are totally harmless and completely normal. Just another viewpoint.

[george wilson]

For many years I have used 5 minute epoxy and DENATURED alcohol(like you thin shellac with),to seal the wood before applying nitrocellulose lacquer. I just squirt some double streams of epoxy in a jar lid and carefully add the alcohol,stirring them together. It really doesn't matter how much alcohol as it dries out,leaving the epoxy. The object is to get the epoxy nearly like water like so it penetrates the wood. The alcohol slows the 5 minute epoxy 's drying time to about 2 hours when it is "leather hard". It is then that I sand it with 220 garnet paper and the excess balls up and rolls off. If I wait overnight,it is hard as blazes to sand as it is fully dry. I can make 4 coats of lacquer look like 20 since the epoxy is not melted at all by the lacquer. Better for tone,believe me. Too much finish kills the tone as it keeps the wood from vibrating.

The epoxy also has a pleasing warm appearance on the wood,like nitrocellulose lacquer does.

You could use this technique on your plane,and I'd recommend it over ca glue. I don't trust ca,and the conservation techs at the museum say it only lasts about 20 years. So,I never use it on anything I want to last. I use it mostly on gluing down small metal objects that are difficult to hold by any other means on the milling machine. Then,I heat the item up,the ca melts,and I can remove it.

[Mel Fulks]

George, never heard anything like that. Gonna find a reason to use that soon, interesting .

[Barry Dima]

George, never heard anything like that. Gonna find a reason to use that soon, interesting .

I may have a reason for it tonight or this weekend. Thanks, George!

[george wilson]

I haven't tried alcohol with longer drying epoxy,but there is no reason it would not work. And longer drying epoxy is harder when dry than 5 minute. It might take a few days to dry.

5 minute on my guitars is just fine,as it is better for tone.

[mark kosse]

by gosh George i was hoping you'd show up on this one, thanks!

[Warren Mickley]

I have a Sandusky 19 plane that I have used for truing every board since 1979. This time of year is when the end grain cracks are most open. In the spring they close up. Here is why. The plane gains a little in height and width over the summer, when it is more humid. As the humidity falls the end grain loses water faster than the interior which makes it shrink and open cracks. In the winter the interior of the block gradually shrinks also which closes up the cracks. In the late spring the end grain picks up moisture faster than the interior and swells closing tight the cracks. If you fill up the cracks now it will cause problems later when the end grain is swollen with respect to the interior. You will have taken away the wiggle room. A little bit like widening a door in the winter will cause jamming in when the door swells in spring.

My bench stop is similar. In the fall it shrinks faster than the rest of the bench, so it is loose. In the spring it is tight.

[Allan Speers]

^ Warren makes a very good point.

If you could first seal the plane, with BLO = varnish, or whatever, then maybe seasonal changes wouldn't matter. - but then the epoxy won't hold, either.

There is an epoxy made for repairing boats which supposedly does expand & contract a bit. I forget what it's called, but I do remember it's very expensive!
That might be the best solution, if you don't want to just living with the cracks.

[jeffp whitaker]

Funny George, how I always seem to disagree with you. I had a an old box built as one of my first projects 25-30 years ago (first time I made box joints) been to the many a job site, beat to death in the back of several pick ups. I used CA to put it together, I was building RC planes and it was what I had on hand. My SIL still uses it at his job and still going strong CA breaking down in 20 years... yea right. The one time I used DENATURED alcohol, it set up in the mixing tub and got so hot that the tub deformed....

[george wilson]

You may disagree with me,but you are also disagreeing with the entire conservation department in Williamsburg,which is one of the best World Class departments of its kind to be found anywhere. And that is saying something. I am glad that your hobby box is still together. The box joints help a lot.


I never said anything about using any kind of alcohol with Ca glue,if you will go back and correctly re read my post #8. The post was entirely about epoxy. The only chemical I ever have applied to Ca. is an acetone soak,to get it loose. I suggest that you do some further research on the subject from other sources. Other woodworkers here agree with me that CA is not to be trusted,and degrades. I might add that Ca's degradation depends upon the amount of exposure it gets to Sunlight,too.

I only ever use Ca. to glue small pieces of irregular shaped metal down(such as my wife's jewelry master patterns),to do a bit of machining. Sometimes there is no convenient way of clamping them. I also use it to hold small cuts together on my hands. It is also good for stopping a paper cut on your lip from hurting,as it stops motion in the wound.

A friend of mine back in the 60's was an IBM computer repairman. Back then,IBM machines were huge,and had gears made of plastic in them. I think it was Kodak glue that IBM used to glue broken gears back together again. He gave me a good size bottle of it,which I experimented with,but never used on my guitars. I had never heard of super glue back then,though it was invented in the late 40's.

About trying to stabilize cracks(or at make them look better!) I suggest that you wait till the dry Winter season has opened the cracks their maximum amount before putting glue into them. That will prevent them from re opening unless you leave the plane atop the furnace. We have terribly dry Winters here. In heated houses,humidity actually can get drier than the Sahara Desert.

Cracks in a plane are not going to open to extreme amounts since planes are not really large objects in terms of width. Not like table tops,for example. When I have to repair a crack in a guitar top,I always want to wait till it it really dry. Then,add shims,etc..

[Allan Speers]

Telling a woodworker that CA glue is known to break down over time, is like telling someone from Tennessee that bacon causes cancer. :(

[george wilson]

I fail to make the connection. If you want to use the stuff,it's your privilege.

I enjoy bacon,but some doctors might tell you that nitrated meats are in fact bad for you.:) But,I don't plan to live forever,while the country goes down hill,people constantly get killed by crazies,my body gets more worn out,good files become obsolete,and using a lot of cherished materials becomes illegal. Even pre 1972 trophy ivory, or very old Brazilian Rosewood,which is stupid. I guess the Japanese and Chinese can get it all,new or old.

You know,40 years in a great museum is a good education,beyond what I already had. That includes by now,61 years of instrument making,tool making,etc..