Any harm in cutting out the middle stile of kitchen cabinets?

[Wakahisa Shinta]

The face frame of my 36-inch-wide kitchen cabinets have a middle stile that is 3 1/4" wide. I am considering cutting them out of the face frame because I want to be able to build wider pull-out shelves for these kitchen cabinets. With them in the way, the pull-out shelves can only be 13 3/4" wide (instead of 34" wide) and the space behind the middle stile is wasted. Correct me if I am wrong, but I would think they are there for structural support. Therefore, I plan to attach a strip of oak to the back of the mid rail to compensate for the missing middle stile. Granite counter top is on top of these cabinets. Just as the title of the post, is there any harm in cutting out the middle stile in order to use the full width of the cabinet for pull-out shelves?

[David Eisenhauer]

The middle stile was probably put there to make it easier to fit the doors, as it is easier to fit in a couple of overlay doors (at 14" or so wide) as opposed to two slightly wider doors that meet in the middle of the gap. The doors that meet without a middle stile have to be squiggled around to met with a near perfect match and their respective edges have to be straight and usually cut with a slight undercut angle top the meeting edges rather than at 90 deg. doors that overlay on stiles are much quicker to install. The middle stile also is very likely taking up some of the shelf(s) weight load and is helping to keep them from sagging. Without knowing what kind of shelf load you anticipate, I'm not sure what the pull-out shelves will do. Large pots/pans take up space, but really are not that heavy, unless you are going to load them up with lots of cast iron.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

The shelves are meant to help with organization, decrease wasted space, and eliminate the need to get on all four to pull out things from the back of the cabinets. As you can see, pots and pans will be the main occupants of these shelves. I don't anticipate ever reaching 100 lbs per shelve. My plan is to construct them out of 1/2" BB plywood, both sides and bottoms. Maybe dovetail joinery if I feel inspired. At the least, locking glue joint using a router bit (http://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-Router-Bits-3347-Diameter/dp/B000K2EFNG/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1448859422&sr=8-5&keywords=locking+router+bit). Still contemplating between full extension vs. 3/4 extension 100-lbs Blum drawer slides.

Another motivation for wanting to cut away the middle stile is not wanting to build drawer slide support for the slides in the middle of the cabinet if the middle stile is left in place. :) The back panel of the cabinet looks to be 1/4" thick at best. Not sure if attaching drawer slide support to this thin material is a good idea. Also, I don't know the exact material it is made out of.

Here is a picture of one of the cabinets in discussion.
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[Jay Jolliffe]

I made my cabinets to have wide pullout shelves. Same as what you have but no divider. You'll have to support the top drawers if your keeping them. Since they are overlay doors you will build out under the slides to clear the doors. I used the Blum soft close full extension and the work great.

[Robert Engel]

I think what you're proposing is fine. If they are overlay doors, you could add an astralagus to the rabbet on one side.

We recently had a granite top installed. I have frameless cabs. On a 36" wide unit I added an oak backer strip like you propose.
The installer said it was unnecessary but it sure made me feel better.

[Mike Wilkins]

Have you been crawling around in my brain lately? I am in the same predicament; wanting to remove the center stile to install 2 wide pull-out shelves to better access the items in the back of the cabinets. These items sometimes get forgotten and will eventually fall out of date.
I have considered attaching, with glue and screws, a backer strip across the top rail to provide support for the counter top.
For the missing stile and the resulting gap, a 1/4" strip (astralagus ???) will be added to one of the doors.

If all else fails, the resulting collapse will prompt me to go ahead and start the kitchen remodel that I have been avoiding.

Good luck and let us know what you eventually do.

[John A langley]

I see no problem I would cut stile out as neatly as possible and apply it to one of the doors make your rollouts and you're done

[Mark Patoka]

My neighbor replaced her cabinets a few years ago and they do not have the middle stile so she could have the pull out shelves/drawer also. She has a granite countertop so it appears that it is not going to affect you. We're redoing our kitchen soon and were considering taking out the middle stile also for a large drawer for the large pots.

[Bill White]

Do what John Langley said.
Bill

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Mike, you might be crawling around in my head. I have been contemplating this project for the last 3 years, off and on. Other matters found themselves ascending up in the queue too often!

Anyway, I looked up astralagus. It's a family of small plant, some herbal usage as supplements. I think Robert meant to say astragal, discussed here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astragal). It is also called "meeting stile seals." Thanks to Robert, I learned something!

One of my cabinets has astragal attached to the door. I took some pictures. As you can see, it has a raised edge where it is attached to the door. This make the visible part sits flush with the face frame when closed.

There is a reason cutting this middle stile out might not work out in the long run. It provides support to the drawers above. One of the drawer slides uses the middle stile as support. The utensil drawers in our kitchen see quite a bit of load from all the silverware. Without the middle stile, the drawers would probably sag on the side where the stile is supposed to be. I am not entirely sure as I haven't found anything online regarding this particular modification to cabs like these.

Still thinking...
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[George Bokros]

The middle stile on my kitchen sink base gives me fits when I need to work under the sink, replace faucet or disposal.

[Tom Howarth]

Like George, I too dislike the stile under my kitchen sink.
I'm too big (fat) to able to work under there comfortably.
the next time I need to get under there,out it comes. Then I'll screw it to one of the doors...
i just need to figure out how it's attached, I'd hate to mess up my fine toothed saw, cutting through pocket screws.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Tom, maybe try a strong rare earth magnet to see if there are screws used to secure the middle stile? I use a CH Hanson magnetic stud finder to find wall studs. It is very strong and will pull toward the screw head within a few inches radius.

[Bob Grier]

I am remodeling house and have two 36" cabinets in kitchen without center style. One is under range top where I installed 3 pull outs on Blum undermount sliders below the range top. The top 2 pull outs are mounted on the cabinet sides using 2 each 1 1/2" blum offset mounts on each slider. Mounts come in different offsets, depending on what you need and with the screws to mount into the predrilled 32mm system holes in the cabinet. I mounted the bottom pull out directly on the floor of the cabinet. There is no asparagus on the back of the doors. The closure gap between the doors can be adjusted on the hinges. The sliders are blummotion and doors are soft close. The asparagus on back of door would require that door be closed first. That is ok if you are closing the doors but if you rely on soft close, to close, then it probably would get in the way or take longer to close. I just give doors a push and they close together.

The other 36" cabinet is under sink and has trash/recycle drawer on one side and cabinet door on the other side without center style. Above that is a 36" wide tipout that could have been 2 shorter tipouts with style between them.

I like the full width pull outs in the 36" cabinet. The attached pictures look distorted but that is the camera.
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[Andrew Joiner]

There is a reason cutting this middle stile out might not work out in the long run. It provides support to the drawers above. One of the drawer slides uses the middle stile as support. The utensil drawers in our kitchen see quite a bit of load from all the silverware. Without the middle stile, the drawers would probably sag on the side where the stile is supposed to be. I am not entirely sure as I haven't found anything online regarding this particular modification to cabs like these.

Still thinking...



Screw steel angle like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Crown-Bolt-1-in-x-48-in-Plain-Steel-Angle-with-1-8-in-Thick-42040/202183502
Behind the rail that supports the drawers. It won't sag.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I decided to not cut the middle stile. I am unable to find the cabinet manufacturer and would take too much time to match the finish as a DIY custom job. As it turns out, there is quite a bit of space re-claimed with these pull-out shelves. We now have shelves that are empty! Imagine that! We need to buy more stuffs! :)

For anyone curious or wanting more information: 6/4 Poplar resawn and planed to ~5/8 for drawer stock. The price difference between 5/4 vs. 6/4 stock is about $0.10/bd ft. Bottom is 6mm BB plywood, grade BB/BB. Blum 230 slides with Blum rear mounting sockets. Surprisingly, the 1/4" cabinet back takes quite a bit of weight!

There is some space loss behind the stile, but like most things in life, it's an acceptable compromise. Most importantly, the wife is happy!

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[glenn bradley]

Those came out great. I am a big fan of pullouts as they eliminate the over-stuffed drawer effect that some folks just can't control. You do sacrifice a bit of room but, the room you have is very usable so I see no downside.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The middle stile on my kitchen sink base gives me fits when I need to work under the sink, replace faucet or disposal.
Yep - - that's why I build everything with out those center stiles, then go back and put them in later using pocket screws.
You can't tell the pocket screws are there & if you ever need more access to under the sink, they come right out.

[Roger Feeley]

You might consider cutting out the extra step of opening the cabinet doors to get to drawers. How about just replacing the cabinets with drawers that open directly. We put pullout shelves in several years ago and loved them. But now we are building a new house and plan to just put in big drawers.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

You might consider cutting out the extra step of opening the cabinet doors to get to drawers. How about just replacing the cabinets with drawers that open directly. We put pullout shelves in several years ago and loved them. But now we are building a new house and plan to just put in big drawers.

We wanted lower cabinets with drawers when we bought the house, but our builder wanted unreasonable money for the option. They upcharged at least a few hundred percents and wanted to roll the amount into the loan. That would have been a poor choice to make financially. If we ever remodel or move, then we prefer European cabinetry with the lower ones a mix of cabinets with drawers and ones with doors and pull-out shelves. With these pull-out shelves, kitchen ergonomic has improved. No drastic modification was made to the overall look of the kitchen. We have had a fully functional kitchen while I build these. There hasn't been any disruption in the day-to-day activities of our household.

Thanks for the advice. I will apply it if I ever find time to remodeling my parents's kitchen myself.