Schwarz'ed again lol

[James Pallas]

In the early 1900's H B Sargent patented the framing square as we know it today. One of the best layout tools ever IMO. A good one will set you back 15 or 20 bucks. Add a set of stair gauges for another 5 and you really have something. Now the man has mentioned it in an article and away we go. Soon it will reach boutique level prices. I wish he would stick to his frilly little wooden squares with fancy European names that you can't take out in the rain. You can only laugh a lot he really has a lot of influence in the woodworking community. So a salute to a job well done.
Jim

[Frederick Skelly]

You're probably right - picture what a Bridge City Framing Square will cost. Oh my.

I like CS' style of writing though. Easy and enjoyable to read.

[george wilson]

A GOOD framing square has precision ground surfaces on its useful edges,as opposed to the chomped out framing squares you will always see. The chomped out ones are still pretty accurate. I have checked a few against my 24" Starrett machinist's square(which now costs about $2,000.00. I got mine used but in perfect shape for a lot less!) So,chomped out ones aren't bad. I have yet to find a square with ground edges in a flea market. Wonder what they would cost if anyone made them. Seem to recall something about LV selling one. But,not being a carpenter,I'm not all that into framing squares.

[Reinis Kanders]

Isn't home depot full of them. I actually prefer japanese style for the layout because it is easier to keep it registered.

[Tom M King]

These are still plenty good enough for a framing square: http://chappellsquare.com/product/framing-squares/ I used to use them all the time when I built new houses. These days the only time I can remember dragging one out is when we need to build stair stringers.

[Derek Cohen]

In the early 1900's H B Sargent patented the framing square as we know it today. One of the best layout tools ever IMO. A good one will set you back 15 or 20 bucks. Add a set of stair gauges for another 5 and you really have something. Now the man has mentioned it in an article and away we go. Soon it will reach boutique level prices. I wish he would stick to his frilly little wooden squares with fancy European names that you can't take out in the rain. You can only laugh a lot he really has a lot of influence in the woodworking community. So a salute to a job well done.
Jim

Hi Jim

An alternative is to turn that frilly wooden square into a decently accurate layout square ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/LayOutSquare_html_7ecc088f.jpg

Even CS commented on this modification in one of his blogs.

Article here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/LayOutSquare.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Brady]

He is referring to steel framing squares in his article. Personally, I don't see the utility of a framing square in the wood shop. They seem unwieldy in the confines of a shop. A sliding square on a 24" rule would be my choice.

Chappell makes great framing squares if you want a good one. Lie Nielsen carried them but may have dropped the line. You can give them a shout if you're interested.

[Jim Koepke]

Personally, I don't see the utility of a framing square in the wood shop.

Different squares for different folks. I have a few that get used often. One, a 24", is used on large work. My 12" framing square is used mostly outside the shop. Then there is the one that came in a box of junk. I am not sure if it is square or not. The legs do have a bit of curvature. It works fine for tearing sand paper.


They can be used to set a bevel gauge. With a little trig one can even set angles. If you have pigs ears, aka stair gauges, one can mark off repeated distances on a work piece without having to measure.


A sliding square on a 24" rule would be my choice.

Then there are those of us who have never warmed up to sliding squares or combination squares. Then a lot of people do not see the Stanley Odd Jobs as useful in their shop as I do.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Still have a couple "Vintage" framing squares. The one I can actually still read the scales on, and a older one. IF I need to draw a line across a panel, I'll use the 24" or the 16" leg of the square.

If I need to check for flat, I will use the square.

used a newer one when I used to do stick frame work. Was easier to use than a speed square, somedays. Used to frame stairs alot, best square for the job was the framing squares, even had the brass points to go with it. And, since not all the stairs I framed up were made out of wood, i still used the square to lay things out on the concrete forms I built.

[John Schtrumpf]

Different squares for different folks...
They can be used to set a bevel gauge. With a little trig one can even set angles.



Unit Slope Angle
Short Long Line Short Long Short Long
1 1 1.41 1 1 45 45
5 6 7.81 1.20 0.833 50.2 39.8
3 4 5 1.33 0.75 53.1 36.9
5 7 8.60 1.40 0.714 54.5 35.5
5 8 9.43 1.60 0.625 58.0 32.0
3 5 5.83 1.67 0.600 59.0 31.0
4 7 8.06 1.75 0.571 60.3 29.7
5 9 10.3 1.80 0.556 60.9 29.1
5 11 12.1 2.20 0.455 65.6 24.4
4 9 9.85 2.25 0.444 66.0 24.0
5 12 13 2.40 0.417 67.4 22.6
2 5 5.39 2.5 0.400 68.2 21.8
3 8 8.54 2.67 0.375 69.4 20.6
4 11 11.7 2.75 0.364 70.0 20.0
3 10 10.4 3.33 0.300 73.3 16.7
3 11 11.4 3.67 0.273 74.7 15.3
1 4 4.12 4 0.25 76.0 14.0
2 9 9.22 4.5 0.222 77.5 12.5
2 11 11.2 5.5 0.182 79.7 10.3
1 11 11.0 11 0.0909 84.8 5.19

1 1 1.41 1 1 45 45
1 2 2.24 2 0.5 63.4 26.6
1 3 3.16 3 0.333 71.6 18.4
1 4 4.12 4 0.25 76.0 14.0
1 5 5.10 5 0.200 78.7 11.3
1 6 6.08 6 0.167 80.5 9.46
1 7 7.07 7 0.143 81.9 8.13
1 8 8.06 8 0.125 82.9 7.13
1 9 9.06 9 0.111 83.7 6.34
1 10 10.0 10 0.100 84.3 5.71

1 3 3.16 3 0.333 71.6 18.4
2 3 3.61 1.5 0.667 56.3 33.7
3 3 4.24 1 1 45 45

1 4 4.12 4 0.25 76.0 14.0
2 4 4.47 2 0.5 63.4 26.6
3 4 5 1.33 0.75 53.1 36.9
4 4 5.66 1 1 45 45

1 5 5.10 5 0.200 78.7 11.3
2 5 5.39 2.5 0.400 68.2 21.8
3 5 5.83 1.67 0.600 59.0 31.0
4 5 6.40 1.25 0.800 51.3 38.7
5 5 7.07 1 1 45 45

2 2 2.82 1 1 45 45
3 4 5 1.33 0.75 53.1 36.9
4 7 8.06 1.75 0.571 60.3 29.7
5 12 13 2.40 0.417 67.4 22.6

1 2 2.24 2 0.5 63.4 26.6
2 3 3.61 1.5 0.667 56.3 33.7
3 4 5 1.33 0.75 53.1 36.9
4 5 6.40 1.25 0.800 51.3 38.7
5 6 7.81 1.20 0.833 50.2 39.8
6 7 9.22 1.17 0.857 49.4 40.6

4 6.5 7.63 1.62* 0.615 58.4 31.6

[Tony Zaffuto]

The Sargent's differed from the Stanley's, in that you would have to compute values on the latter, while the former gave you the value.

[Jim Ritter]

I use the square a lot setting the bevel gauge and occasionally setting the miter gauge if for some reason I can't use my fancy one. The Traveler size Chappell square works great for this as the inside length of the short arm is ten inches. The tangent of the angle you want is pulled up on the calculator and since the one side is 10" just move the decimal over one digit to find the length of the opposite side. Which I read directly off the inner scale or for even more precision I can set on the caliper.

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/a8c04dcd336507db15bfc3cd04c98d56.jpg

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/a4f1b9a92482b667400b900004449709.jpg

Jim

[lowell holmes]

Hi Jim

An alternative is to turn that frilly wooden square into a decently accurate layout square ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/LayOutSquare_html_7ecc088f.jpg

Even CS commented on this modification in one of his blogs.

Article here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/LayOutSquare.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
The problem I have with your square is that it's too pretty to use. I'd probably hang it in the den. :)

[James Pallas]

I'm sure everyone has their preferences for tools. It is fun for me to get reaction from everyone because I always get to learn something new. There are few tools in my shop that require a two hundred page manual for uses, this is one. It is also fun to watch Mr Schwarz, he writes great articles and has a lot of woodworking adventures. He can also cause a run on #2 pencils at your favorite office supply just because he likes them. The power of the pen and all if that. It is fun, isn't it.
Jim

[Daniel Rode]

Framing squares and speed squares are carpentry tools. For that purpose, they need to be reasonably accurate but no more. Being within .001 / foot is not useful in any practical sense. I have a full size and a small framing square that I bought many years ago. Both are fairly inexpensive stamped squares. Both are accurate. Hint: Check them at the store and don't buy the one that's off. The speed square was off a little bit when I bought it. I filed the rough spots and it's dead on as far as I can see. Perfect for carpentry.

I really don't use these much for woodworking. Occasionally, I'll use the larger framing square to layout a longer line but then I always recheck using another method. Perhaps a precision framing square would come in handy for woodworking sometimes but I'm not ready spend big buck on one.

[Bob Glenn]

Two framing squares work great as winding sticks. Short legs hanging down, they are self balancing on the board.

[Art Mann]

Big box stores sell framing squares that are similar to wrist watches. If you only own one, it always appears to be correct but if you own two, you are never quite sure. In recent years, I have bought 3 framing squares and only one was accurate enough for my liking. I was able to calibrate the second one with a steel punch. The third one couldn't be corrected because the blades weren't straight enough.