Need advice on solid wood panels

[Greg Lewis]

I have a question on wood panel construction. I'm making a tall case clock with side panels as in the image below (letter G on the drawing). Several of you previously advised me to use 1/2-inch thick wood for the panels with a 1/4-inch tongue around the edges to fit into 1/4-inch rabbets in the stiles and rails.

Without writing a long explanation, I'm not following the plans exactly and 3/8-inch thick panels without the tongue (set into a 3/8-inch rabbet) would make things easier.

Here's the question: These panels will be 10 inches wide and 44 inches long. The wood is quarter-sawn white oak. I'll make up the panels from strips 2 1/2 inches to 3 inches wide. I'll cut the strips oversize and then trim out any warpage and run them through the planer to thickness, then flip the strips before glue-up so the grain alternates. Do you think 3/8-inch thickness would work as well as 1/2-inch in such a long (44 inches) panel? THANKS!




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[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I wouldn't worry about warping with QSO, the panel is only 10 inches wide.

I've made lots of those in 6mm thickness which is a bit thinner than 1/4"..................Regards, Rod.

[Marty Schlosser]

Can't see where it'd be a problem. I'm not clear as to how you're planning to do things, but I'd do the glue-up prior to planing the panel down to final thickness.

[Greg Lewis]

Thanks, Rod. This will eliminate some tricky work where the rabbets and tenons meet and solve an aesthetic problem. Also, if I'm careful, I can resaw some 4/4 wood down the middle for the panel pieces, get bookmatched strips, and save on lumber. Thanks, again.

[Greg Lewis]

Can't see where it'd be a problem. I'm not clear as to how you're planning to do things, but I'd do the glue-up prior to planing the panel down to final thickness.
Thanks, Marty. That's the plan. It will be a little scary running such a wide and long piece through a 12-inch planer but the planer is set up with some long in- and out-feed tables so I can set up sort of a fence to get it in going straight.

[Lee Schierer]

Thanks, Marty. That's the plan. It will be a little scary running such a wide and long piece through a 12-inch planer but the planer is set up with some long in- and out-feed tables so I can set up sort of a fence to get it in going straight.

While doing the glue up be sure to look at the edge grain of each strip and make sure the grain ends all face the same direction on adjoining boards. This will reduce or eliminate any tearout douring the planing operation.

[John T Barker]

I'd go with plywood.

[Greg Lewis]

While doing the glue up be sure to look at the edge grain of each strip and make sure the grain ends all face the same direction on adjoining boards. This will reduce or eliminate any tearout douring the planing operation.
Oh... THANKS! I wouldn't have thought of that. I'm really not much of a woodworker. I've made a few wall clocks and some cabinetry but I've been doing machining for 30 years and metal behaves quite differently from wood! So every bit of advice, no matter how basic or obvious to you experts, is welcome.

[Greg Lewis]

I'd go with plywood.
Thanks for the suggestion. The plans call for that, but I posted the question of plywood or solid on an earlier thread and the majority recommended solid. My concerns were that plywood would be too thin, somewhat less than 1/4 inch, and the veneer would also be quite thin. I don't have the ability to do my own veneer. I measured the veneer thickness on a scrap of 1/4 that I had and it was an astonishing .006 inch thick. I want this piece to become a family heirloom and I can foresee it getting whacked by some exuberant children some day, and I don't want a thin veneer to suffer unrecoverable damage. Also I want this to have some feeling of mass to it that I don't think I'd get with plywood. But thanks for your thoughts.

[Brian Tymchak]

Here's the question: These panels will be 10 inches wide and 44 inches long. The wood is quarter-sawn white oak. I'll make up the panels from strips 2 1/2 inches to 3 inches wide. I'll cut the strips oversize and then trim out any warpage and run them through the planer to thickness, then flip the strips before glue-up so the grain

Greg, are you starting with thin strips or ripping down wider boards to strips and then flipping grain orientation to gain stability in the panel? If the latter, QSWO should be stable enough to avoid having to do that. From an aesthetics POV, if you have the option, a solid board is going to look better than a glue up of strips that are changing grain across the panel.

[Jamie Buxton]

Oh... THANKS! I wouldn't have thought of that. I'm really not much of a woodworker. I've made a few wall clocks and some cabinetry but I've been doing machining for 30 years and metal behaves quite differently from wood! So every bit of advice, no matter how basic or obvious to you experts, is welcome.

When I'm gluing up lumber panels, I start by face-planning the rough lumber. Mostly what I'm doing is hunting for the direction that the wood wants to go through the planer. I mark that on the ends of the lumber, and observe that as I do the glue up. Then there's no surprising tear-out when I plane the glued-up panel.

[Greg Lewis]

Greg, are you starting with thin strips or ripping down wider boards to strips and then flipping grain orientation to gain stability in the panel? If the latter, QSWO should be stable enough to avoid having to do that. From an aesthetics POV, if you have the option, a solid board is going to look better than a glue up of strips that are changing grain across the panel.

Bryan:
I'm copying the Stickley tall case clock that is in the LA county museum of art (photo below). The side panels are made up from strips that are about 3 inches wide and, interestingly, not bookmatched. (The current production clocks are — probably veneer over MDF or similar core.) I'll be ripping down some rough-sawn, random-width 4/4 stock that averages about 6 inches wide in the rough. I had thought to flip the strips but thanks to you and Lee I won't do that.

Now that I think about it, perhaps I should abandon the notion of an exact copy and try for bookmatched side panels using the stock full-width. I might have to find someone with a more robust bandsaw to resaw the wider stock. Hm...... decisions, decisions.

And another thanks to all of you for your help and advice. Considering the size of this piece, the cost of materials and the time involved, I'm grateful for any tips I can get. I need to keep errors to a minimum.


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[Enrico Caruso]

Greg,
Woodworking aside; what is your source for the clock works, weights, dial and pendulum? Is it a striking clock of any sort (I cannot tell from the angle of the photo of the museum clock.

Enrico Caruso

[Greg Lewis]

Greg,
Woodworking aside; what is your source for the clock works, weights, dial and pendulum? Is it a striking clock of any sort (I cannot tell from the angle of the photo of the museum clock.

Enrico Caruso

Enrico:
I get my stuff from Blackforest Imports. I've also used Klockit but Blackforest has a larger selection. For the mantle clock I last made I made my own pendulum, for this one just the stick and the rating nut and screw. And for this one I also made some of the weight parts; the weight fillers coming from a piece of steel in my scrap pile. I made the dial for the mantle clock and will do the same for this one. I draw up the artwork in Illustrator and have a sign shop print it out in a stencil, then use circuit board etchant to cut the design into the metal, then paint or add chemical patina as needed.

The Stickley clock is a time strike only; mine will have a triple-chime Kieninger movement (KSU33). I chose that because I wanted cable-hung weights and the Kieninger with Westminster only wasn't available. I'll probably never use the other two chime options. The movement also has automatic night shutoff, but frankly, I like to hear a clock chime when I wake up in the middle of the night. I haven't checked the movement but if I can't bypass that feature with an already-installed lever I'll figure out a way to do it. I put a manual shutoff on a clock I made for one of my kids and such things are not hard to do.

[Scott T Smith]

Greg, if you start with an 11" - 12" wide 5/4 thick QSWO board and resaw it down the middle, you should be able to yield a pair of "relatively" bookmatched panels. I use the word "relatively" because the medullary cells in white oak are thinner than most thin kerf resaw bands, so you will end up with boodmatched grain but not bookmatched ray fleck.

[Tim McCarthy]

You won't have any problem with the panel. Just be sure to figure in a small bit of wood movement into your final dimension and finish (and dry) your panels and parts before glue up. I use a layer of wax paper to ensure no glued panels.

[Dan Hahr]

The grain will run opposite in book matched boards. Make sure it is not terribly crazy before resawing. This makes a great looking panel. Just go slow with the thickness planing.

Dan

[Greg Lewis]

Greg, if you start with an 11" - 12" wide 5/4 thick QSWO board and resaw it down the middle, you should be able to yield a pair of "relatively" bookmatched panels. I use the word "relatively" because the medullary cells in white oak are thinner than most thin kerf resaw bands, so you will end up with boodmatched grain but not bookmatched ray fleck.

Ah... that explains why the fleck changes so much with planing. Thanks.

Tim: Yes, I'll be sure to provide space in the bottoms of the rabbets for the panels to expand and contract.

[Robert Engel]

Very, very good advice on grain direction. QSWO notorious for tear out, so be careful re: planing to final dimension with a machine.
You will want to consider finishing by hand, with a smoothing plane and/or scraper.

Panels that thin are very prone to cupping. I recommend stickering them and either clamping or strapping with tape.
Unless your shop is climate controlled I usually store them in plastic bag until assembly time.

[Greg Lewis]

Very, very good advice on grain direction. QSWO notorious for tear out, so be careful re: planing to final dimension with a machine.
You will want to consider finishing by hand, with a smoothing plane and/or scraper.

Panels that thin are very prone to cupping. I recommend stickering them and either clamping or strapping with tape.
Unless your shop is climate controlled I usually store them in plastic bag until assembly time.

Thanks, Robert. I put new blades in the planer before starting this project and I'm getting reasonably good results when I pay attention to grain direction. Planer marks are almost invisible — it doesn't take much to get rid of them.

Do you think 3/8-inch thick quarter sawn would have much of a cupping problem?

My shop is climate controlled — the climate is in control! While I have a heater I run when I'm working, the shop is subject to temperature changes from about 45 degrees overnight to 60 degrees when heated. Humidity this time of year ranges from as high as 75 percent in the early morning to as low as 30 percent in the afternoon. I have no way of knowing the moisture content of the wood. I get it from a local hardwood supplier and it's in a huge stack on a pallet in his warehouse. He's had this batch for perhaps a month or so.

[Bill Orbine]

Greg, if you start with an 11" - 12" wide 5/4 thick QSWO board and resaw it down the middle, you should be able to yield a pair of "relatively" bookmatched panels. I use the word "relatively" because the medullary cells in white oak are thinner than most thin kerf resaw bands, so you will end up with boodmatched grain but not bookmatched ray fleck.

I agree with this! If wide planks hard to come by, the lesser # of glue joints the better......... It looks better. If you do strips as you suggested, it's going to look like a butcher's block or a floor.

[Scott T Smith]

Panels that thin are very prone to cupping. I recommend stickering them and either clamping or strapping with tape.
Unless your shop is climate controlled I usually store them in plastic bag until assembly time.

It's a good idea to prefinish all sides of the panel as well.