Mortiser Advice

[Stew Hagerty]

I do hope everyone is having a good week, and I wish you all a great & Happy Thanksgiving. Travel Safe.

So, on to my question...

I am considering a benchtop mortiser. I have been doing more mortise & tenon joinery lately. Typically I have either chopped, or drill & chopped them. That has worked well, but as I do more & more I think that a dedicated machine is making more sense.

I have been eyeing the following machines:

Rikon 34-260
$388 + Free Shipping on Amazon

325793

Powermatic PM701
$489.99 + Free Shipping on Amazon

325794

And
Shop Fox W1671
$329.99 + Free Shipping on Amazon

325795

The Rikon has superior workholding and XY adjustment, but it is just 1/2hp
The Powermatic is... Well, a Powermatic.
The Shop Fox is priced the same as the Rikon, but is 3/4hp. However, it has no XY and only a vertical hold-down.

Any advise? Personal experiences? Just want to spout off? I'll take anything I can get.

[Prashun Patel]

If I had to have a benchtop mortiser, I'd get the Powermatic. You want the beefiest one you can afford.

My advice is not what you'd like to hear, probably: forgo the benchtop unit altogether and save up for a floor model or a Domino. The Domino is more versatile and with the larger unit, there's really no mortising job it cannot handle. Less layout required than a mortising unit, and gives you the ability to do endgrain mortises for floating tenons. FWIW, I use my Domino for traditional M&T too.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Stew,

I think Prashun is right about the floor model of the Domino. I personally have a Powermatic floor model and i'm happy with it. I'm not familiar with the machines you're looking at but I suggest you look at the clamping system carefully. A mortiser needs a clamping system that works well.

Good luck with it.

PHM

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi Stew,
I just did a ton of looking, studying and shopping on this. I ordered the PM benchtop and PM bits/chisels. JET and PM start a 15% off sale Friday, so if you can decide quickly you'll save money. (My machine ships Friday, as soon as the sale kicks in.)

The Rikon has nice features - they always pile on desirable options - but I couldn't find enough real reviews to get convinced of it's quality. I think a mortiser takes more abuse than alot of tools and that factored in. (Full disclosure: I have a Rikon bandsaw and like it. But there was a lot of info available to help me understand the pros/cons of that purchase. Not too much on the new mortiser.) FYI, I looked at an X-Y vise and got convinced one can easily modify it to do what the Rikon does for "holding" if I need it. So I didn't get too hung up on not having that feature.

The JET is an excellent tool and it comes with good chisels. But I decided to spend the extra $100 and go top shelf for the PM. Well, really $200 because I had to buy the chisels too ($132 on sale). I've never owned a PM product and I expect to use this tool a lot, so I wanted a good, durable one.

You might call Tools Plus and see if they'll cut you a free shipping deal like they did me.

Drop me a PM if I can help.

Best of luck!
Fred

[Shawn Pixley]

I have the Powermatic (fine machine) and a Domino. The domino gets used for smaller M&T. Larger ones are done using mortiser and hand tools (gate project, guitar cabinet). I haven't found the need for a bigger mortiser (the biggest mortises I have made are 1"x5"x4" by combination of mortiser and hand tools).

The only thing I have noted is the need to pause while the bit / chisel colls when doing a lot of mortising (yes the bit and chisel were sharp, honed and polished).

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Stew, 1/2 HP is more than required for a mortise, all it is doing is drilling a hole with an auger bit.

The consistently hi ranked mortiser is the General International model, which I've owned for about 14 years. It has an excellent vise, is strongly made and works very well.

Most of my work is in quarter sawn white oak, and the machine works very well.

The Powermatic model you illustrated has such a poor work holding system I would never buy it. A mortise needs a strong vise to hold the work securely and accurately.

The Shop Fox you illustrated is made with a couple of round steel posts, hardly rigid enough for the demands of a mortise, you should only buy one with a box frame and dovetail ways.

Of all you've illustrated, the Rikon is the best, it has a large enough motor, a good hold down vise and a box section frame with cast iron ways. If you can't find a General International buy it.

On all the machines you will need to hone the chisels inside and out, and perhaps sharpen the auger bit before use.

Regards, Rod.

[Frederick Skelly]

Everyone Ive talked to has high praise for the General. I just didnt want to reach that far.

Rod, you have had a machine many years and mine's just "on the way". So I don't mean to sound like a know it all here..... Theres no question that the workholding capability of a built in X-Y table is superior to not having it. But to describe the PM as "such a poor workholding system", might be a bit strong. Most of the guys who have the PM generally like them a lot. And, aside from the General, the only benchtops Ive seen that have an X-Y table are the Rikon (unproven, to me anyway) and the Baileigh (which was poorly rated by FWW in a number of categories last year).

Respectfully,
Fred

[Tom M King]

I wouldn't pay a hundred bucks more for one over another. I have both sizes of the Woodtek, and they both do fine. The larger one works as good as any, and the smaller one is a bit more fiddly to set because you have to use allen wrenches. PM changed the work holding part of their mortise some years back from one with a big clamp. My larger Woodtek has a big clamp. The trouble with the supposedly "better" clamping ability is that it's so strong that it's easy to push the fence back. I expected that's why PM changes theirs to the two rollers. A slide fit is plenty precise enough. I cut hundreds of mortises on one project with my larger one set to a slide fit, and every one came out just fine. If you have a moving table one like a 719, then the big clamp will be fine.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a Jet with a 1/2 hp motor and no built in hold-down. I use clamps for the first hole with the 1/2 chisel. It has a bar that goes over the wood and helps but I can't always use it. I don't need a bigger motor but I could use a built in clamping mechanism. But it could have to hold a lot of force if I go to the bottom with the 1/2 chisel in one motion. I've learned the hard way it is better to go up and down a few times on that first hole where the chisel is trapped. The clamp also keep you firm against the fence which helps with alignment. I would go with the Rikon of the ones you pictured.

[Peter Quinn]

Add me to the list of general fans. Their floor models work great, and the larger bench top model is basically a floor model with no cabinet under it, I've used the tilting bench top model, very decent machine. I like the powermatic floor models, haven't used in the bench top. The rikon looks feature heavy but the devil is in the details....if those ways aren't tight and accurate then all is for not, and I'd rather have a basic machine with a solid table I use with clamps. I'm not saying it isn't, but that's a lot of feature at that price....so go kick the tires before paying.

I think at 3/8" and below most of the bench tops will make a decent mortise with sharp tooling. The hold down system will add productivity, but I've used just clamps before, takes more time but holds quite well. When you get into the larger mortises, the efficiency of the ratchet determines how much effort it will take to get it done. Some are better than others, better mechanical advantage, and it's hard to perceive the difference until you have bit in wood.

[keith wootton]

+1 more for holding out for floor model. general and powermatic pretty similar.

i had a pm 719, now have pm 10. pm 10 can handle much larger pieces of wood, and has superior holddown, but 719 will handle 3/4 bit at least as well except bit gets hotter.

having x y axis movement is huge improvement on productivity, and with stops for end of board and width of cut, your layout just has to be good on one piece, all other you just have to be sure you are mortising correct face and end. mortising will be so fast, you will use it for everything.

always tap your workpiece with rubber hammer and tighten hold down a little more before mortising. have your dial calipers handy if you are doing lots of repetitive mortises, tables can creep small amount and cause you grief. but if you are careful, getting mortises within .005 should be routine.

[Stew Hagerty]

I just watched this YouTube Video about the Shop Fox. It actually has tons of features I was not aware of. I especially like the rotating part so that you can do end mortises. I'm also thinking maybe those twin Bars aren't necessarily bad. They look pretty sturdy.
Hey watch the video and let me know what you think...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7L-UZr-vBY

[John TenEyck]

Build a horizontal router mortiser, like mine, save yourself a bunch of money, and have a machine that has more versatility and is easier and much faster to use. M&T, loose tenons, sliding dovetails, rabbets, raised panels, and more. You can mortise edge grain, end grain, whatever grain w/o problems and they come out beautifully smooth with no need for any cleanup work.

https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/horizontal-router-mortiser

John
(https://sites.google.com/site/jteneyckwoodworker/current-projects/horizontal-router-mortiser)

[Frederick Skelly]

FWW reviewed several brands in their July/August 2014 issue. I wouldnt buy based solely on their recommendation, but it was an interesting article. The Shop Fox W1671 did ok, but they found the fence "fair". For comparison, they found the JET's fence to be only "fair" as well.

Some of the other machines on your list have the same rotating feature.

Fred

[Tony Leonard]

I've owned the PM for several years and have been very happy with it. I only had one issue - the piece that the handle attaches to fell apart - yes, literally! The internal teeth just crumbled. I got the impression mine was not the only one. I replaced it and no issues since. One thing I wish was better was the fence adjustment. It is very coarse. A little tricky to make fine adjustments.

Tony

[Bill McNiel]

I've had the PM 719 floor model for about 30 years (the Tilt version was not available back then) with absolutely no regrets. It has met all expectations, for example cutting 2" x 4" x 2 1/2"deep mortises on "Country Table" bases. I also have the small domino which definitely has been a valued addition to my shop.

Fully recommend the PM.

[Stew Hagerty]

Some of the other machines on your list have the same rotating feature.

Fred

Hey Fred, which of the other two rotate? I did not notice anything about that on those.

[Frederick Skelly]

Hey Fred, which of the other two rotate? I did not notice anything about that on those.

Jet says "column is reversible for mortising long stock". If I understand what Ive read correctly, that lets it rotate so the head is 180 deg away from the table. That's the same thing as what I saw in your video.

I believe I saw the PM701 do the same in an online video. I think it was this one, but I didn't watch it again to check. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AM0htu5ZemU This is a pretty good demo.

[roger wiegand]

I have the General 75-075 and find the rolling table to be well worth the upgrade price. Once I set the stops I can make as many pieces as I need with no fiddling, marking, or measuring.

[Kent Adams]

Hi Stew, 1/2 HP is more than required for a mortise, all it is doing is drilling a hole with an auger bit.

The consistently hi ranked mortiser is the General International model, which I've owned for about 14 years. It has an excellent vise, is strongly made and works very well.

Most of my work is in quarter sawn white oak, and the machine works very well.

The Powermatic model you illustrated has such a poor work holding system I would never buy it. A mortise needs a strong vise to hold the work securely and accurately.

The Shop Fox you illustrated is made with a couple of round steel posts, hardly rigid enough for the demands of a mortise, you should only buy one with a box frame and dovetail ways.

Of all you've illustrated, the Rikon is the best, it has a large enough motor, a good hold down vise and a box section frame with cast iron ways. If you can't find a General International buy it.

On all the machines you will need to hone the chisels inside and out, and perhaps sharpen the auger bit before use.

Regards, Rod.

Rod, was your GI made in Canada or Tiawan?

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, was your GI made in Canada or Tiawan?

Hi Kent, all the GI equipment is made in Taiwan.

General equipment was made in Canada and they ceased production a couple of years ago.

Regards, Rod.

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

I bought a new General International about 13 yrs ago. It sounds like it should be a nice machine if I should ever decide to use it. Once I got it I set it up drilled 2 test holes in red oak. I actually lost my job right after I ordered it & before it was delivered. Then I l gave up doing any flat wood work. It's been sitting on my bench collecting dust for like I said 13 yrs now. I thought about returning it but I had already paid for it & I didn't want to pay return shipping so I just kept it. I switched to turning where I haven't had to buy any wood since.

[Jim Becker]

I recently sold my Jet (similar to the PowerMatic) to another member. Of the three you post about, I'd also recommend the PowerMatic.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Multi-router by JDS
Nothing mentioned here can touch the MR in terms of versatility. Downside.... Price!

[Stew Hagerty]

Jet says "column is reversible for mortising long stock". If I understand what Ive read correctly, that lets it rotate so the head is 180 deg away from the table. That's the same thing as what I saw in your video.

I believe I saw the PM701 do the same in an online video. I think it was this one, but I didn't watch it again to check. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AM0htu5ZemU This is a pretty good demo.

Jet was not one of my choices.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Check out this great in-depth review of the Rikon. I believe the reviewer is a creeker.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ta3OTK5Wg

[Frederick Skelly]

Jet was not one of my choices.

Excuse ​me.

[Stew Hagerty]

Well I took the plunge.
I ordered the PM701.
With the Cyber Monday special, it was just $420. That price made the decision pretty easy.

So...
Chisels

Powermatic sells a set of 4 for $140,
Lee Valley has their Japanese "Premium Set" for $169
And their "Economy Set" for $52

Now, I'm a hobbiest. I do have some furniture projects coming up That will have a bunch of M&T joints, which is why I figured it was time to buy the machine.
I'm not going to do thousands of mortises. At least not in anyshort or even medium amount of time. I guess over the course of many many years I may perhaps do thousands, but I certainly wouldn't count on it.

So... Recommendations on chisels? And why?

[Robert Payne]

You will benefit from the Premium set from Lee Valley -- I have found they make accurate cuts and maintain sharp edges. Very well made ... and be sure to buy the sharpening cones as well.

[Rod Sheridan]

You will benefit from the Premium set from Lee Valley -- I have found they make accurate cuts and maintain sharp edges. Very well made ... and be sure to buy the sharpening cones as well.

This mirrors my experience as well, they were well worth the money, and yes purchase the conical hone for them while you're ordering.............Regards, Rod.

[Mike Goetzke]

If I had to have a benchtop mortiser, I'd get the Powermatic. You want the beefiest one you can afford.

My advice is not what you'd like to hear, probably: forgo the benchtop unit altogether and save up for a floor model or a Domino. The Domino is more versatile and with the larger unit, there's really no mortising job it cannot handle. Less layout required than a mortising unit, and gives you the ability to do endgrain mortises for floating tenons. FWIW, I use my Domino for traditional M&T too.

+1 Been full circle twice on this. I had a mortiser then sold it when the Domino 500 just came out. Sold the 500 because the tenons were too small for some applications. Earlier this year I found a great deal on a slightly used Domino XL 700. Came with all the extras including unused Seneca add-ons which allow use of smaller cutters if needed and a neat thickness gauge. I'm working on a crib project that calls for loose M&T joints for the slats. The XL was accurate and made quick work of almost 150 mortises.

[Stew Hagerty]

+1 Been full circle twice on this. I had a mortiser then sold it when the Domino 500 just came out. Sold the 500 because the tenons were too small for some applications. Earlier this year I found a great deal on a slightly used Domino XL 700. Came with all the extras including unused Seneca add-ons which allow use of smaller cutters if needed and a neat thickness gauge. I'm working on a crib project that calls for loose M&T joints for the slats. The XL was accurate and made quick work of almost 150 mortises.

Thank you for your imput Mike. However, as I posted last night, I ordered the Powermatic with Cyber Monday savings.

Everybody has their own ways of doing things, and I'm just not a fan of loose tenons. I guess that I'm a bit more of a traditionalist when it comes to joinery. Besides, if I run into a situation where I need to use loose tenons, I can either chop them, drill them, route them, and/or use my new mortiser.

I am a Hybrid Woodworker. I do a lot of my work by hand. It took me a long time to pull the trigger on the mortiser. I've always chopped my mortises. However, I have some furniture projects coming up that have a ton of mortises and my arms figured it was time.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stew,

I didn't respond earlier because I have a different brand of mortiser than you listed in your poll.

Regardless of which mortiser you get, the degree of sharpness of your bits and chisels will have the greatest effect on your degree of happiness with your mortiser. I found that using two different sharpening tools improved the operation of my mortiser and improved my satisfaction with it. I bought the mortiser sharpening kits from Wood Craft and Rockler.

The Wood Craft sharpener reams or cuts, if you will, a new face on the cutting face of the chisel. The Rockler kit uses diamond encrusted cones to hone that face. I ream them when necessary and touch them up with the diamond hone.

It's important to flatten the outside of the chisel too just like the back of a chisel or plane blade.

Then I also sharpen the cutting edge on the bits.

I can't place enough emphasis on the bits and chisels being sharp.

My initial impression of using my GI mortiser was "so-so" but after sharpening, I truly enjoy using it!

My final choices was the PM you ordered and the GI. I am sure you will be happy with the PM.

[Tom M King]

On a big project, if I don't to take the chisel and bit out, hitting the outside of the chisel with one of these keeps the burr down, and helps keep it sharp. After a lot of use, a burr will form on the outside edges of the chisel. Even the slightest burr makes it difficult to withdraw the chisel and bit from the mortise. If it gets hard to pull out, this is most likely the problem. I keep one of these beside the mortisers: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/147297/dmt-diasharp-25-diamond-offset-minihone-extra-fine.aspx

[Jim Becker]

In addition to the excellent advise that Ken and Tom provided above, Be sure you understand the setup for the chisel and bit. The bit must be proud of the chisel...the bit does the work and the chisel only cleans things up as it squares the hole. This really is critical.

[Stew Hagerty]

Robert, Rod, Ken, Tom, & Jim

I thank you for your advise. I ordered the Premium Chisels from Lee Valley plus the Hone Cone set. I was going to get either the less expensive set they sell or the Powermatic ones, but I figured "What the heck, get the best ones." Besides, I still had some Amazon gift cards left I had been saving for tools that further discounted the Cyber Monday savings on the mortiser. So I figured I could splurge on the bits.