Help! Refinishing old radio cabinet...

[Patricia Paris]

http://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/confused.gif Hi, I am refinishing an old radio cabinet and am looking for advice. The radio has long since been removed and I will be using it as bar/liquor cabinet. My best guess is that it is from the 40's and looks to be mahogany veneered. It is very cool but has seen better days. I purchased it from an antique dealer who was cleaning out his garage and I only paid $10 for it. I am not concerned about destroying its antique value since it is in such bad shape and paid virtually nothing for it. It has water damage (white spots that look like big rain drops on it). And some of the finish looks likes its peeled off... I definitely think it needs to be stripped. None of the veneer is missing although it is lifting in some areas on the top.

I'd like to start work on it this weekend, its been sitting in my garage all summer. I appreciate any advice or tips I can get from you all (best methods on stripping the finish, sanding, etc.) What type of mahogany stain and topcoat? What is the best gluing method for the lifting veneer?

Thanks! http://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/smile.gif patty

[Wes Bischel]

Hey - a question I can actually answer! Finally!!
I am not an expert, but I play one on the web. :eek:

Patty,

If you could post a picture, that would help. I've redone a bunch of radios - and have a bunch in the basement waiting for attention. :rolleyes: Anyhow, this is just from my experiences and by trial and error - a lot of the later. But a few things to consider - not all may apply.

- Depending on the age, some of the contrasting or decorative "veneer" is actually a decal and will disappear when stripped. I have not seen a better solution than using real veneer to replace it. The thinner the better.

- Examine the overall finish, some toners may have been used to accent/darken certain areas - typically around the edges. these can be recreated with a touch-up gun or a skillful use of a spray can toner.

- Again, depending on age/era, some edges may be painted (typically black)to cover plywood edges. I paint these with a brush first, then the finish coat over the whole cabinet.

- I use the nasty chemical strippers versus the water based strippers on veneered cabinets due to the age and the possibility of raising the grain on such thin veneer. Also I have seen bad results from WB on bent forms. The downside is the safety gear you need to wear and the disposal of the residue.

- After the finish is off, I use a scotchbrite pad with stripper to clean the residual finish. Also, I only use plastic scrapers to remove the stripper from detail areas - I tend to gouge the softened veneer with metal scrapers.

- Make sure the veneer is sound before stripping - on the top, I reglue the veneer before stripping - this helps to prevent any kind of glue staining the finish surface. Also, if the veneer is badly warped, use a good epoxy (like West systems) to reglue it - in a pinch I've used the little tubes fro the borg for smaller difficult repairs.

- On veneer where just the edge is lifting, sometimes you can use a shot or two of compressed air to drive the glue deeper under the veneer. An alternative is an old paint brush with long bristles.

- Some supply places if needed for toners, grille cloth, decals etc.:
http://www.grillecloth.com/
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
http://members.aol.com/RockSeaEnt/

If you're still awake, now you know why nobody asks about anything I know about! :D

Wes

[Norman Hitt]

First, as Wes said, Reglue any loose vaneer, and let the glue fully set/cure BEFORE continuing with ANY further refinishing procedures.

For finishing, I really don't like strippers unless ABSOLUTELY necessary, and I have had very good luck using Formby's Refinishing Formula when the original finish was varnish or lacquer. Follow the exact directions on the can by keeping the surface very wet with the "Formula", and gently scrubbing it around in a small circular motion, with steel wool and wiping it off with a soft cloth, but don't try to wipe it DRY, just wipe off the excess til it is smooth). When you are through, let it dry thoroughly and then lightly scuff it with grey or white scotchbrite or 180 or 220 grit sandpaper. At this point, if you are satisfied with the color, you can apply either a wipeon finish or spray finish or whatever, OR you can use toners and then the finish, etc. (I usually try to refinish with the same finish that was originally used, ie: varnish/varnish or lacquer/lacquer, etc). If the top will be exposed to alcohol spills or rings from glasses & bottles, like most bartops, then seal the top with shellac first and then apply Polyurethane for the finish coats. (I Never use Poly, EXCEPT for this purpose, as it is too hard to repair later if necessary).

You should spend extra time working (in the circular motion) the Formby's & dissolved old finish, on the places where there was discoloration from the water damage. Sometimes you can work it all out or most of it at least, as the dissolved old finish will tend to recolor the light spots, and by keeping any darkened lines/areas flooded with the Formby's, it will usually dissolve and flush out whatever contaminate is creating the dark line, thus eliminating a lot of extra work trying to blend toner or other to cover up these blemishes.

This method does not raise the grain, and you don't tend to work through the vaneer as with sanding or sometimes scraping off the stripper, and it keeps the wood sealed with the same basic color as the original finish was when it was new, (unless they had used a lot of toners or glaze, which will be mostly dissolved and wiped off with this process). It is MUCH easier than sanding OR stripping, doesn't create near as much "Mess", and goes very fast.

Good Luck, and let us know how it works out, "Whatever Method" you choose.

[Steve Schoene]

I agree with Norm that it is best to avoid full fledged stripper, if you can. You don't need to spring for Formby's which seems pretty high priced. First check out whether alcohol alone will dissolve the finish--indicating it was shellac. If it works it is less noxious to work with and considerable cheaper. If that doesn't work, you can use lacquer thinner, which contains essentially the same ingredients as Formby's, for much less money. Neither lacquer thinner nor Formby's will work on old varnish, but varnish is pretty rare in older wood products.

And Norm is definately right when he says to do the repairs before doing any stripping.

[Patricia Paris]

Thanks Guys! I will try and post some pictures of the cabinet tomorrow since I will be off from work. I have to move some stuff around to get some good shots. My husband rolls his eyes when I bring home "projects". He's more into hunting than power tools so I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm nuts when I do these things...

I appreciate all of your help! The trick about using the paint brush to get beneath the veneer is a great idea - I was wondering how I could get glue in that tight of a space... I don't have a fully stocked tool shop yet so I have to work with what I have and buy things as I go. We bought our first house last year so I've been accumulating tools slowly on a project by project basis.

[Byron Trantham]

Thanks Guys! I will try and post some pictures of the cabinet tomorrow since I will be off from work. I have to move some stuff around to get some good shots. My husband rolls his eyes when I bring home "projects". He's more into hunting than power tools so I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm nuts when I do these things...

I appreciate all of your help! The trick about using the paint brush to get beneath the veneer is a great idea - I was wondering how I could get glue in that tight of a space... I don't have a fully stocked tool shop yet so I have to work with what I have and buy things as I go. We bought our first house last year so I've been accumulating tools slowly on a project by project basis.

Patricia, you can get the glue into tight spaces with a syringe that can be purchased from Woodworkers Supply, WoodCraft, etc. They are cheap, the postage will cost more than the tool. Tell your husband that you are are a hunter too; hunting for this tool and that tool... :D

[Patricia Paris]

I've been having trouble trying to download pictures of the cabinet... Everytime I try to attach the photo, I get an error message saying page does not exist. I'm sure I must be doing something wrong, but in the mean time, in case anyone would like to see my cabinet I've saved the pictures to a website;

http://www.picturetrail.com/
On the top right hand side of the page it asks for member name - type in
peej44 You'll see and album labeled Radio Cabinet and that will bring you to the pictures of my project.

You can see that the top of the cabinet has the water damage and a deep scratch. Thats why I was wondering if I should strip the thing entirely.

The cabinet has a sticker on the back that reads Silvertone Radionet if that means anything to Wes since you said you've worked on some old radio cabinets before.

Thanks again to everyone again for their advice :)

[Wes Bischel]

Patty,

Actually the radio looks better than I thought. A handsome cabinet for sure - and at $10 a good deal. You might want to go with Norm and Steve's advice, but first, try cleaning the finish. With the exception of the deep scratches, I think with a good cleaning and possibly judicial use of 0000 steel wool, you might have a fine finish that could just be waxed to finish it off. It may be that you would only need to refinish the top. The technique Norm described could be used on the top to blend the scratches and the water spots.
You may already have a secret family recipie for cleaning furniture - if not Murphy's Oil Soap usually works fine, but a more agressive cleaner can sometimes be used such as Prelude from Rockler (though try them in a hidden spot first). (http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=6354)

Just for the record, the trim details on your cabinet are a pain to strip and refinsh - a lot of painstaking fine detail work. So if you can avoid stripping, it may be best. Also, they pretty much require spraying your finish which adds a whole new complexity to the job.

The Silvertone brand was a Sears Roebuck store brand - like Craftsman and Kenmore are today. The radio was made by another manufacturer to Sears' specification. Many times the radio chassis was made by one firm, and the cabinet by another firm. Silvertones are more common than other brands, but I have not come across a cabinet like yours. (I only have two console units, most of my radios are table tops) As you mentioned, it is most likely prewar, but there is a chance it could have been post WWII. Due to the conservative Federal-ish style, and not having a chassis, it is hard to pinpoint. With the more flamboyant designs, it is typically easier to tell the era/year.

Good luck with your project,
Wes