Festool Sanders and Dust Collector from a cheap guy

[Scott Brandstetter]

I would like to start off by explaining my situation. I have been building furniture for more that 25 years. Until the last two years I did it for family and friends mostly, without much payment. The last couple of years my son and I started a website, and began to do this as a weekend business. I had no idea how many people wanted solid wood furniture built and our little business has taken off.

As most of us agree, sanding just stinks! I have had many different sanders over the years and they all seem to be the same....long and tedious to get to the end result. Some of you might remember that I started a thread asking if the Festool sanders were really that much better. I was amazed at the responses that seem to all focus on the dust collection. The thing that amazed me is that the sanders are really the difference. (of course, the dust collection is second to none) I started off with the 6 inch 5mm sander (new design) and the way it ate the wood, smoothed the surface, created a finish that I've never felt before (maybe because I spent so much time sanding with my past sanders getting to an acceptable level I never went to the next grit), I was instantly sold. The finish on my last dresser top was amazing.

So it's only been a couple of weeks but I am so impressed I have now invested in the 5 inch Rotex and the DTS 400 triangle sander.

With all this said, what's the bottom line. For me, time is money. My little weekend business is a couple of dressers, nightstands, beds, etc per month. I have used the profits from the last month to upgrade but I guarantee i will make that back next month. It's all a matter of where you are and what your resources are. I will never forget when I was 22, my woodshop in a one car garage....spending $400 on a sander would have bought me a one way ticket to the looney bin. If though, you are in a better financial place, I can't argue against getting a Festool sander vac package. Give me a month and I will give you a review on the Kapex Miter Saw. LOL

[Peter Quinn]

First time I demo'd a festool sander....I was taking a class on cabinet making, another student pulled one out and let me use his....I walked right out into the woodcraft the classes were held in and bought 2. There are sanders I prefer at this point, but I still use festool exclusively in my home shop because they meet all my needs perfectly and the total cost is really not high considering all factors. The thing about the dust collection that can't be understated is its not a side benefit but a requirement for effective sanding. Without dust collection you keep pummeling the same dust cake back into the wood which slows the process to a stop, clogs the paper, and burnishes the wood rather than sanding it. Doesn't matter which sander you use, dust must be removed for effective progress. I do appreciate the low swirl fine finish of the festool, it's not to be over looked. So glad you are profiting from a tool you can enjoy using!

[Prashun Patel]

I'll humbly offer this (since I have way LESS experience than you):

Do you own a drum sander? I'm sure your biggest sanding pains are your panels. If my business takes off as has yours that will become a necessity for saving time.

[Scott Brandstetter]

Peter, excellent point and I should have included that in my original post.

Prashun, this thread is in no way meant to create a debate about whether Festool is the best or other sanders, vacs, shouldn't be considered. I really meant it as one guys review of the Festool with an eye toward total cost (time and money). I'm quite certain other sanders are as good, maybe better, but my point was there really is a huge difference between the less expensive sanders I've always used and the new ones I own.

[Prashun Patel]

k. removed my inflammatory remarks. Point taken.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Not to hijack, but I've been having some of the same thoughts, recently, about how much I hate sanding, and how much I'd pay to speed up the process. A few years ago I bought the 5" Festool ROS (ETS125), and I have to say.....I haven't been impressed? It's nice (no vibration, great dust collection, etc), but it's not "OMG WOW!".

Mostly, I think it's slow. I've been using the Rubin paper, but am about to try some of the new "Granat" paper. As a metric, if I try to sand a pencil mark off a piece of, say, maple, with P100 paper....it probably takes a good 30 seconds. That seems REALLY slow.

Does anyone know if the 5" ROS is just much less impressive than the 6" or the Rotex? I'd jump on buying one of those if they are in a whole different class, but so far, my 5" ROS just hasn't left me with the sense of amazement that the OP has (so I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong).

[Victor Robinson]

Not to hijack, but I've been having some of the same thoughts, recently, about how much I hate sanding, and how much I'd pay to speed up the process. A few years ago I bought the 5" Festool ROS (ETS125), and I have to say.....I haven't been impressed? It's nice (no vibration, great dust collection, etc), but it's not "OMG WOW!".

Mostly, I think it's slow. I've been using the Rubin paper, but am about to try some of the new "Granat" paper. As a metric, if I try to sand a pencil mark off a piece of, say, maple, with P100 paper....it probably takes a good 30 seconds. That seems REALLY slow.

Does anyone know if the 5" ROS is just much less impressive than the 6" or the Rotex? I'd jump on buying one of those if they are in a whole different class, but so far, my 5" ROS just hasn't left me with the sense of amazement that the OP has (so I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong).

First of all I was never really thrilled with Rubin. I don't know if that was a me problem or a Rubin problem, but I was much happier with the results after using Granat. Lots of people swear by Rubin so who knows. I use Granat for almost everything now.

My Festool ROS (ETS150) never made me say "wow" with respect to the rate of removing material at lower grits. It did make me say wow with respect to a very smooth sanding result at the higher grits (120+) coupled with smooth operation and basically a dust free surface. Also, I became much happier with its performance using the [blue] hard pad as I was sanding mostly flat surfaces.

If you want to squiggle pencil marks on a surface and be impressed with how quickly you can make them disappear, then the Rotex is your tool. Recently needed to sand off stain/finish off a bunch of salvaged oak plywood. It was amazing how quickly the Rotex handled that task. If I had tried to use the ETS, I'd be sitting there forever. If you really want to speed through sanding as quickly as possible, try out the 5 or 6" Rotex. What you gain in speed and power you will compromise in ergonomics, but it might be a better fit for you. Heck, you don't lose anything unless you find you like it. :)

[Greg R Bradley]

......
Does anyone know if the 5" ROS is just much less impressive than the 6" or the Rotex? I'd jump on buying one of those if they are in a whole different class, but so far, my 5" ROS just hasn't left me with the sense of amazement that the OP has (so I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong).
The ETS125 is very unimpressive. I use it where weight and size is the important factor. Sanding a ceiling, lots of work reaching up, stuck in a narrow hole, etc. Lots of that work on a big old wood yacht.

For general use particularly what I see of building furniture, I would probably skip it completely.

My personal preference, not having used the new ETS EC brushless units, would be start with the ETS150/5. In a semi-production furniture shop, it gets used as much as all the others combined. Some people will look at the specs where the RO150 in fine mode duplicates the pattern of the ETS150/5 and choose a RO150 and the ETS150/3. That leaves you using the RO150 for most work and its a beast and noisy.

[Harvey Miller]

Festool has a 30 day no questions asked return policy. Partly so users can try out their expensive products without risk. If I where looking at one of their tools, I'd try out over time and be pretty ruthless in my evaluation. It's part of what you pay for (& I own a few Festools).

[Erik Christensen]

if you want fast stock removal you need to try a rotex in rotary mode - the 6" is a handful to control but it removes stock alsmost like a belt sander

[Ben Rivel]

Huh yea I guess the low vibration would be nice, but my 5" DeWalt ROS hooked to a 4.5HP Shop-Vac leaves me a dust free and extremely smooth finish, quickly, every time Ive used it. I even have an I-Socket plugged in between so I can that vacuum auto on/off feature. Though I am not running a daily business sanding for 8 hours a day. Id guess that if that were the case anything that reduced that vibration would be a good thing.

[Martin Wasner]

Good tools are always worth the expense. Weeding out what's good and what's just expensive can be tricky though.

For the money, I'd look for something other than the Kapex in a chop box. It's sweet, but you can get a used omga for next to nothing and it's a commercial tool. Just don't try to move it.

[peter gagliardi]

Not to hijack, but I've been having some of the same thoughts, recently, about how much I hate sanding, and how much I'd pay to speed up the process. A few years ago I bought the 5" Festool ROS (ETS125), and I have to say.....I haven't been impressed? It's nice (no vibration, great dust collection, etc), but it's not "OMG WOW!".

Mostly, I think it's slow. I've been using the Rubin paper, but am about to try some of the new "Granat" paper. As a metric, if I try to sand a pencil mark off a piece of, say, maple, with P100 paper....it probably takes a good 30 seconds. That seems REALLY slow.

Does anyone know if the 5" ROS is just much less impressive than the 6" or the Rotex? I'd jump on buying one of those if they are in a whole different class, but so far, my 5" ROS just hasn't left me with the sense of amazement that the OP has (so I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong).
If you want "wow" try a 6" Rotex! If that machine doesn't impress, nothing will. It is that good. It can be used in some instances as a quick substitute for a belt sander.

[peter gagliardi]

The quality of an Omga is indisputable, however, last I knew, it was only a simple vertical only chop saw. It can't bevel, or compound miter, and it doesn't have the width capacity. Oh, and it is not portable. It is an excellent shop saw for cutting stock to length, but look for something else for jobsite work.

[Martin Wasner]

The new ones bevel

[Martin Wasner]

But I don't think they are as good as the cast ones

[Greg R Bradley]

Omga makes a variety of mitre saws ranging from the traditional saws that have only miter capacity to others that do both miter and bevel. They have a newer series of aluminum saws that do the same but are lighter duty but still make the typical miter saw look like toys. Not a single one runs on 120v. Most run 230v 3 phase but some smaller units are available single phase. A few of the larger ones run 460v 3 phase. Serious heavy duty machines. The one I have runs 230 three phase but miters only. Its been in continuous use making hundreds of cuts per week minimum up to hundreds per day for a couple decades and just keeps running. It weighs over 200 pounds. Induction motors. Heavy, heavy serious production machine. NONE have sliders so have limitations on cut width. Ball bearings on the adjustments designed to be adjustable many, many thousands of times and still be accurate. It's in a production furniture manufacturer with 25+ people building furniture full time and just keeps running. If you plan on wearing out one of these, you need more than one shift of operator and a few decades of heavy use.
The 400 pound Omga RAS I just bought from Rick Potter off the classifieds is whimpy by comparison and it has a 14" blade and a 5hp motor.
Don't know how this post on Festool sanders got pulled into Omga Miter Saws? Looks like #14 meant to post in http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?237686-best-miter-saw-to-buy/page3 and 3 of us added to that.

[Dave Gagnon]

These saws look amazing. I had no idea these exist

[Justin Ludwig]

Scott, I upgraded from a PC 6" sander with no DC to a FS 150/5. I too was beside myself in the difference. I own just two "green" tools, but they are both outstanding (the sander and a track saw).



Good tools are always worth the expense. Weeding out what's good and what's just expensive can be tricky though.

For the money, I'd look for something other than the Kapex in a chop box. It's sweet, but you can get a used omga for next to nothing and it's a commercial tool. Just don't try to move it.

Bought a '95 OMGA 12" 450 RAS for $300 on auction. Built a stand and tables and set it with a forklift! I still giggle when I use it. It was my shop upgrade from a 12" Dewalt SCMS. The motor is worn and has very little torque, but the brake stops a 12" .145 kerf blade in 1 second. It takes about 3 seconds to get spun-up, but once it's spinning it cuts dead nuts at the full 17".

[mreza Salav]

ETS125 is the only Festool tool I returned. It really is not worth it.
Rubin sand paper is also junk (or next to junk). I dare say anything is better than that (well, not really, but you get the point).
I've used ETS150 heavily in the past couple of years and I think it's a good sander. Is it worth the money? depends on what you do but if you have a business I can't see how you can stay ahead by cheaping out on sanding.
Are there better sanders out there? I think so but this is among the good was.
Do I have anything bad to say about it? it's not very light especially if you have to sand vertical surfaces for extended period of time. Also, my foam pad just separated (read completely broke apart). They took it back and gave me a new one as it shouldn't wear out so badly so quickly.