Small Wood Stock Smoothing Planes

[ken hatch]

Another thread questioned getting either a #2 or #3 for a smoothing plane, while Kees and I mentioned using wood stock planes I did not want to hijack the thread. What to do Bubba, what to do. Oh I know, start another thread but this time about wood stock smoothers.

I have three wood stock smoothers that I use and a number of shop made smoothers as well. I'll just post a photo of one of the shop made planes as they all look the same, the only difference between them is in length.

The first is a PhillyPlane coffin smoother:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/woodStockPlanePhilly151118_zpsk9zmgrpq.jpg

It is single iron, bedded at 50 degrees with a high carbon straight iron. The cutter is easy to set with just light taps, it holds the set and releases easily. Even with a single iron, it leaves a beautiful surface on a difficult wood such as Ribbon Sapele.

[ken hatch]

I do not have a #2 but I have and use several #3s as well as some #4s for smoothers along with the woodies. The woodies, once set, are easier to handle, they are almost like an extension of your arm. Here is a horned ECE also with a single iron, I'm not sure what the bedding angle is and I suspect the iron is not HC steel. The horn and raised area behind the cutter are very comfortable to use.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/woodStockPlaneECEHornedSmoother151118_zpsnq9vlhvv. jpg

[Tony Shea]

I am jealous of the Philly Plane smoother. The only wood smoothers that I own is a Krenov style plane I made and a couple Japanese Tsunesaburo planes. I love the surface these planes can produce versus a metal smoothing plane but for some reason reach for the metal planes more often. The Japanese planes are still not something I'm completely comfortable with although they are really nice planes. When smoothing softwoods I always reach for one of my Tsunesaburo planes because the surface is just unbelievable using this plane. The Krenov style plane is bedded at 55deg and I use this on tricky grain and get an awesome surface. But I on regular old straight grain hardwood I typically just grab the LN #4 because it is set up so nicely that it is just easier to use this than have to worry about tuning up the sole of one of my dai's.

Having said that I still would love to own a coffin smoother, preferably made by Clark & Williams but any other maker would be fine as well. I've thought about just making my own coffin smoother and probably will sometime in the near future. But I still want one professionally made when I get the extra $ to spend on one.

Great collection Ken, I love threads like this.

[ken hatch]

The third of the smoothers is a large ECE coffin smoother with a double iron. it is the newest to join my woodies and while it works it still needs some tuning. The cut can be inconsistent and no matter how careful I am when installing the cutter it will take a heavier cut on the left. I found a belly just behind the mouth and have flatten the sole. It is better but still taking a heavier cut on the left before adjustment. I'm not sure where the problem is but I suspect either the wedge or bed. The beauty of woodies is while they can have more problems than a iron body plane, once the problem is identified it usually is very easy to fix. While I've had several wood stock planes almost from the get go, my ECE Try plane was one of my first planes, I have only been using them (other than the ECE Try plane) when planing work pieces for the last couple of years. There is a steeper learning curve but once comfortable they are a joy to use.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/woodStockPlaneECECoffinSmoother151118-2_zpsoqogiwio.jpg

[ken hatch]

I am jealous of the Philly Plane smoother. The only wood smoothers that I own is a Krenov style plane I made and a couple Japanese Tsunesaburo planes. I love the surface these planes can produce versus a metal smoothing plane but for some reason reach for the metal planes more often. The Japanese planes are still not something I'm completely comfortable with although they are really nice planes. When smoothing softwoods I always reach for one of my Tsunesaburo planes because the surface is just unbelievable using this plane. The Krenov style plane is bedded at 55deg and I use this on tricky grain and get an awesome surface. But I on regular old straight grain hardwood I typically just grab the LN #4 because it is set up so nicely that it is just easier to use this than have to worry about tuning up the sole of one of my dai's.

Having said that I still would love to own a coffin smoother, preferably made by Clark & Williams but any other maker would be fine as well. I've thought about just making my own coffin smoother and probably will sometime in the near future. But I still want one professionally made when I get the extra $ to spend on one.

Great collection Ken, I love threads like this.

Tony,

Thanks.

I have a double iron Try plane on order from Steve Voigt to replace the ECE Try which is getting a little long in tooth. He makes a very nice looking double iron coffin smoother as well.

I understand, it has taken a few years for me to get comfortable enough to reach for a woodie as often as one of the iron smoothers.

ken

[ken hatch]

And last is an example of my shop made woodies. I use these mostly for adding chamfers. They are very light and fall naturally into a two hand grip and work equally well planing either right to left or left to right. I think this one's stock is Bubinga and the bed is 45 degrees with a Hock double HC iron. I have others with Beech stocks. BTW, I've a couple of shop mades with LV's single tapered iron, they are also very nice to use.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/woodStockPlaneShopMadeSmoother151118_zpsces5pnze.j pg

Since I'm on a roll I might as well add the other two woodies I use. The afore mentioned ECE Try plane I've had for ages and a newer PhillyPlane Jack. Photos to follow later.

[Steve Voigt]

Hey Ken,
Nice planes! Is that Philly smoother made of boxwood?

[ken hatch]

Hey Ken,
Nice planes! Is that Philly smoother made of boxwood?

Thanks Steve,

I think so but do not know for sure, I just told Phil to make one, at the time he said he had a very nice blank but did not mention of what and I never asked. I let it set in the shop for almost a year before it stopped moving. Big jump from UK to the Desert Southwest. BTW, I would like a HC double iron coffin, the ECE has a mystery iron. I tried a LV O-1 iron but it didn't work well. Of course so far the mystery iron isn't perfect either.

ken

[Joe Beaulieu]

Hey Guys,

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a question on that ECE plane. I have an ECE Primus smoother with a pear body I believe and a lignum vitae sole. It was a pretty standard combination they were offered with a while ago. Anyway, I have a hard time getting that plane tuned. I basically gave up on it a while ago - sending it to the land of misfit planes. Anything you can tell me about the use of and tuning of an ECE smoother? This one has a mechanical "adjuster" and a knob on the end of the body that sets the tension on the blade. It also has a depth of iron knob, and a lateral adjuster on the "cap iron" (for want of a better term- it is not a typical cap iron...). I have a very hard time getting it o take a full width, consistent shaving. I would appreciate any insight you may be able to give. Is it worth trying to fix? I have LN smoothers that I end up using and loving for some time now. I just hate feeling like I can't figure something out. Thanks

Joe

[ken hatch]

Hey Guys,

Not to hijack the thread, but I have a question on that ECE plane. I have an ECE Primus smoother with a pear body I believe and a lignum vitae sole. It was a pretty standard combination they were offered with a while ago. Anyway, I have a hard time getting that plane tuned. I basically gave up on it a while ago - sending it to the land of misfit planes. Anything you can tell me about the use of and tuning of an ECE smoother? This one has a mechanical "adjuster" and a knob on the end of the body that sets the tension on the blade. It also has a depth of iron knob, and a lateral adjuster on the "cap iron" (for want of a better term- it is not a typical cap iron...). I have a very hard time getting it o take a full width, consistent shaving. I would appreciate any insight you may be able to give. Is it worth trying to fix? I have LN smoothers that I end up using and loving for some time now. I just hate feeling like I can't figure something out. Thanks

Joe

Joe,

I've never used a ECE Primus plane, folks that use them either love 'em or like you put 'em on the shelf or eBay. Maybe someone will step in that knowns something about them.

ken

[Allan Speers]

I have a lot of ECE Primus planes, and love every one of them.
I have ones with wedges, and the "improved" versions with the depth adjuster, and I vastly prefer the later. Great precision & absolutely no backlash !

You do have to get used to that odd mechanism & how much rear-knob tension to use. It's also important to adjust the blade's lateral position AFTER tightening it down. this is part of the design, and important! See this hard-to-find document I just uploaded for you:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31826742/ECE%20PRIMUS%20LATERAL%20ADJUSTMENT%21.png

Also, I find that they work best with the chipbreaker back a little further than on a Stanley, for better clearance. Note that the chipbreaker bows the blade just a hair when you tighten it down. this is normal & part of the overall design. I forget why, but they actually do it on purpose.

I've also read that sometimes the adjustable mouths need to be shimmed, but I've never had such a problem, and I probably have over a dozen ECE & Ulmias with adjustable mouths. I suspect that some users don't realize that the mouths are SUPPOSED to be slightly skewed, when the blade tension is low. The mouth is supposed to come into alignment once you bring the blade into the center, under tension. It's a very odd setup, and very poorly explained, but it actually works incredibly well.

Dieter Schmidt has a small bit of info on the adjustment mechanism itself:
http://www.fine-tools.com/G301047.html

Most of them are 50º, AFAIK.

The irons are supposedly "high tungsten" carbon steel. This is much like Japanese blue steel. A long-lasting & durable edge, but not quite as razor-sharp as the best pure-carbon blades. It's just one of those trade-offs. Personally, I'd prefer maximum sharpness in a smoother, but for jacks, scrubs, etc I'm glad to have that extra tungsten in there. Blade thickness is fine. Not as beefy as a vintage woody, but still much thicker than a Stanley blade. In actual use there's never any chatter. My dream smoother would be the ECE but with a Japanese laminated blade. Well, that 'aint gonna' happen, so ...

I love everything else about them, especially the front horn. It's a revelation to once in a while PULL your plane instead of pushing it. (especially with a scrub or an aggressive jack.) And those lignum soles are just SEXY. Nothing else feels as good.

[Allan Speers]

I am jealous of the Philly Plane smoother. The only wood smoothers that I own is a Krenov style plane I made and a couple Japanese Tsunesaburo planes. I love the surface these planes can produce versus a metal smoothing plane but for some reason reach for the metal planes more often. The Japanese planes are still not something I'm completely comfortable with although they are really nice planes. When smoothing softwoods I always reach for one of my Tsunesaburo planes because the surface is just unbelievable using this plane. The Krenov style plane is bedded at 55deg and I use this on tricky grain and get an awesome surface. But I on regular old straight grain hardwood I typically just grab the LN #4 because it is set up so nicely that it is just easier to use this than have to worry about tuning up the sole of one of my dai's.

Having said that I still would love to own a coffin smoother, preferably made by Clark & Williams but any other maker would be fine as well. I've thought about just making my own coffin smoother and probably will sometime in the near future. But I still want one professionally made when I get the extra $ to spend on one.

Great collection Ken, I love threads like this.


I own & use a ton of woodies, but I have to say, I've never met a coffin smoother I really got along with. Large, small, light, heavy - I find them all a little hard to hold & maneuver, personally.

[Derek Cohen]

One cannot have a thread like this without mentioning the HNT Gordon planes. I have two in this range, both single iron and bedded at 60 degrees. Both superb smoothers in terms of performance. Neither are traditional in regard to the way they are held.

The smoother is 210mm long ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20HNT%20Gordon%20Smoother%20and%20Trying%20Pla ne_html_m61fb7edc.jpg

The palm smoother is 125mm long. Here it is with a Mujingfang (top) look-a-like. The Muji is cheap as chips and excellent. The Gordon (lower) is better, but more expensive. Excellent plane for tiny sections of work.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/HNT%20Gordon/IMG_7053.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chuck Hart]

Ken, I wish my mama would make a play date with your mama so I could play with all your tools...toys

[Kees Heiden]

This is my wooden smoother. It is a newer Nooitgedagt body with a much older Nooitgedagt iron. The new plane was pretty badly manufactured. The rear end was squarish, so I transformed that into the English coffin shape. The new iron was a thin parallel one with a very soft edge. The plane also had a huge mouth and badly finished details where the abutments end in the wear. The old iron fits a lot better and with some attention to the abutments it now feeds very nicely. The plane is now perfect.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll266/Kees2351/plane/DSC01480.jpg (http://s290.photobucket.com/user/Kees2351/media/plane/DSC01480.jpg.html)

[ken hatch]

Ken, I wish my mama would make a play date with your mama so I could play with all your tools...toys

Chuck,

Winter is a great time to be in the desert, come on by anytime:-).

BTW, being a toolaholic has both its upside and down. Lots of toys to play with when you do not feel like doing anything productive, you usually have the needed tool somewhere (if you can find it), when you can't it is just an AmEx away. The down: Lots of toys to play with when you should be productive, storing and finding 'em, and every time the UPS girl shows up MsBubba gives me "the look".

ken

[ken hatch]

This is my wooden smoother. It is a newer Nooitgedagt body with a much older Nooitgedagt iron. The new plane was pretty badly manufactured. The rear end was squarish, so I transformed that into the English coffin shape. The new iron was a thin parallel one with a very soft edge. The plane also had a huge mouth and badly finished details where the abutments end in the wear. The old iron fits a lot better and with some attention to the abutments it now feeds very nicely. The plane is now perfect.



Kees,

One of the beauties of woodies, if you can figure out what's wrong it is easy to fix.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

Great thread Ken!
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/FE345173-3568-4BB6-B45E-8AE9676BE8DD_zpstxvtccuc.jpg (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/SpeedyGoomba/media/FE345173-3568-4BB6-B45E-8AE9676BE8DD_zpstxvtccuc.jpg.html)

A bit time consuming to setup initially, but very nice to work with afterward.

I still use my #4 LN alot, but for softer hardwoods this has been my go-to. The kanna will chatter a bit on rock maple if I'm not super careful (38~ degree bed).

The wooden Try plane and jack ruined me as well :D

[Kees Heiden]

Indeed.

---------------

[ken hatch]

Great thread Ken!


A bit time consuming to setup initially, but very nice to work with afterward.

I still use my #4 LN alot, but for softer hardwoods this has been my go-to. The kanna will chatter a bit on rock maple if I'm not super careful (38~ degree bed).

The wooden Try plane and jack ruined me as well :D

Brian,

I hate to admit but I've started down that slippery slope as well, not too far along but far enough to see Japanese planes could give great pleasure once I've developed some knowledge. As always with Japanese tools it is the iron that makes them worth the effort.

Here is one of mine on Cherry:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/woodStockPlaneJapaneseSmoother151119_zps5anmhkbt.j pg

[steven c newman]

Have a Butcher ironed Ohio Tool Works Coffin smoother...more of a #4 sized plane. The #3 sized one is a little different, though
325557Sitting there behind a block plane.
This is the Liberty Bell No.122
325558
Has a finger loop to adjust the depth settings, too.
325559

[Phil Stone]

Does anybody have any experience with Crown Planes? Their smoother looks like a very affordable way to try out a wooden plane.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian,

I hate to admit but I've started down that slippery slope as well, not too far along but far enough to see Japanese planes could give great pleasure once I've developed some knowledge. As always with Japanese tools it is the iron that makes them worth the effort.

Here is one of mine on Cherry:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/woodStockPlaneJapaneseSmoother151119_zps5anmhkbt.j pg


Nice! If you get a chance, check out Chris' halls guide on setting up the Kanna. It's a wonderful walk-through and really digs down to the nitty-gritty.

The only thing I've had a really difficult time finding out via the web and books is the mouth opening. I Just set mine as tight as possible where chips would still clear.

Also, because the angle of the dai is so low, I set my chipbreaker at 80 degrees~.

[ken hatch]

Nice! If you get a chance, check out Chris' halls guide on setting up the Kanna. It's a wonderful walk-through and really digs down to the nitty-gritty.

The only thing I've had a really difficult time finding out via the web and books is the mouth opening. I Just set mine as tight as possible where chips would still clear.

Also, because the angle of the dai is so low, I set my chipbreaker at 80 degrees~.

Thanks Brian,

I've started reading through the posts, looks like really good info.

I figured I might as well expand the thread to the rest of the woodies. Here are the three prep planes, from top to bottom a ECE double iron Try, a single iron PhillyPlane Jack, and a ECE scrub. I use the machines most of the time if the wood fits but often I will either need to get the wind out or if it is a table top true it. Doing either job with a woodie is much easier than with the #5 and #8. My body thanks me afterwards.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/woodStockPlaneScrubJackTry151119_zpsizkebcca.jpg

I have a couple of new Try planes coming, one with a double iron and the other a single iron...Once they arrive the ECE will be retired, it and the ECE scrub plane had a hard life, both were stored for many years in a Texas barn while I roamed the world.

ken

[ken hatch]

Does anybody have any experience with Crown Planes? Their smoother looks like a very affordable way to try out a wooden plane.

Wish I could help you but no experience with the brand. From looking at the web site I would question the construction as to are the planes laminated or one piece. Because of my chosen sharpening system I try to only use HC steel and the Crown planes come with A-2.

BTW, my shop made planes are laminated and for the most part hold up and work fine.

Sorry I couldn't help,

ken

[Derek Cohen]

Crown Planes were founded by Leon Robbins in the 1980s. He passed away in 2007. There is a tribute to Leon on Mike Dunbar's blog: http://thewindsorinstitute.com/blog/?p=34

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Absolutely, they make it a joy to plane big panels. You'll have to post up photos of Steve's try planes.

I've got a good photo of my try plane and Jack;

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/4F28362B-B9C5-45C2-92AF-315085C31295_zpsc0droswc.jpg

[lowell holmes]

This string got me to thinking. They have planes in stock.

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Primus-Wooden-Planes-by-EC-Emmerich/products/331/

[Reinis Kanders]

One can also often find these planes for cheap on ebay. I got primus smoother for about $40 with shipping about a year ago. It is alright, but I prefer No.4 because there is less fiddling.


This string got me to thinking. They have planes in stock.

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Primus-Wooden-Planes-by-EC-Emmerich/products/331/

[ken hatch]

Absolutely, they make it a joy to plane big panels. You'll have to post up photos of Steve's try planes.

I've got a good photo of my try plane and Jack;



If only my shop were as organized and neat, but then it wouldn't be my shop :). Steve said it would be sometime after the first before he builds my Try. No projected delivery date on the Philly, but from past experience six months or more, it gets here when it gets here. Photos when I get 'em.

[Allan Speers]

Nice! If you get a chance, check out Chris' halls guide on setting up the Kanna. It's a wonderful walk-through and really digs down to the nitty-gritty.

The only thing I've had a really difficult time finding out via the web and books is the mouth opening. I Just set mine as tight as possible where chips would still clear.

Also, because the angle of the dai is so low, I set my chipbreaker at 80 degrees~.


I have a whole bunch of Kannas I picked up back in the day. Some are probably even fettled well & ready to go. Yet, I literally have never even tried one of them. They just seem like so much WORK, and I fail to see any actual advantage except perhaps a slightly nicer blade. - And a few of my English woodies have terrific laminated blades, so even that advantage is minimized. Kannas are also not as comfortable in the hand as a typical western plane, IMO.

I love me them Japanese saws, so I have yet to re-sell the kannas, but I'm still waiting for someone to convince me why they're worth all that trouble to set up, and even to use.


So ... Care to try? :)

[Brian Holcombe]

If you have one in your workshop that's nearly ready to go, put it to wood and see if you like using it. If you like using it, you'll probably be a bit more encouraged to fine tune it.

Ken, looking forward to seeing them! And I'm certain you are looking forward to seeing them and using them.