Random Orbital Sander suggestions

[david minnery]

Hi All,
I want to replace my Festool 125 sander. My first one died after 2 years and I've had had stripped screws when replacing the pads numerous times.
I want something lightweight that I can attach to my festool vac.
I'm looking for a 5" pad.

Thanks for the help!

[Victor Robinson]

This should be interesting. I'll just say that the Festool warranty covers 3 years, so you may want to look into a repair if you haven't already.

On the other hand, if you simply dislike your ETS? or Rotex? One hears good things about the Mirka Ceros. Definitely lightweight, though the DC converter it attaches to is not.

[Martin Wasner]

Ceros. I don't carry the converter, I let the floor do that

[Dimitrios Fradelakis]

Ceros for sure. Would buy one again in a heartbeat.

[peter gagliardi]

This should be interesting. I'll just say that the Festool warranty covers 3 years, so you may want to look into a repair if you haven't already.
This ^^^^^^ +2! You still have one year of warranty left. I find it quite odd that a sander would just "die" after only 2 years. Obviously the Festool has left a bad impression with you.
The Festool and Mirka are pretty much in their own class- everything else with dust collection is a bit behind in quality.
I recently needed a basic random orbital machine- already have 2 Rotex's, so I tried out both the new Festool DC version- ETS EC, and the Mirka Deros side by side in the shop for a couple days, mainly because I wanted to see what all the hype was about with the new Mirka Deros.
Long story short, I'm keeping the Festool and returning the Mirka.
Why? The Festool has more power.
The Festool is quieter.
The Festool is smoother operating.
The Festool is actually cheaper to buy!!! $485 vs $595 for the Mirka
I found the Mirka irritating- I don't like paddle switches, I don't like variable speed. I don't like having to push the on button every time to turn it on, then having to hold the paddle down to get it to run besides.
I want on/off, and a simple dial separate for slower speeds.
Both were quite maneuverable.
I wanted to like the Mirka, but I didn't. Maybe I would have thought differently if I hadn't used them side by side.
Get the Festool fixed, then sell it, and get what you want.

[Martin Wasner]

When you are used to Dynabrade sanders, the ergonomics of anything else wonn't make any sense to you. That's one of the huge reasons we went with the Ceros at work. I for one like variable speed because I'm not always using the sander at full tilt just sanding flat panels, sometimes you're just breaking an edge or whatever and the ability to throttle back is a godsend. To me the paddle switch is a non-issue, your hand just rests on it, you let go, it stops. Plus you can dial down the speed on the handle which I like. Ours get turned on in the morning and off at the end of the day, (most of the time they get forgotten pretty frequently). I've used a Festool sander, they're okay. We've bought and destroyed just about every other brand of electric sander. They typically last about 4-8 months in the shop depending on the brand. We had the best luck with the Makita sanders, but we were buying a few at a time. The Portercable, and DeFalt's didn't last too long. Going on a year with the Mirka's, and they aren't showing any signs of quitting any time soon. If I had to replace all of them once a year, I'd probably still buy them. I likely save it in electricity by not having the compressor running nonstop with the Dynabrades. And since we are going to need a new compressor soon, our air demand is much lower than it was so we can go with a much smaller unit since there isn't anything else in the shop that is a constant air draw the way the pneumatic sanders are. Clamps, nail guns, the widebelt, and that's about it.

I'd say if you were looking for a pneumatic, go Dynabrade.

[glenn bradley]

I agree that variable speed is a must for a ROS. I assume the value of this will vary depending on how you use the sander. So many woodworkers, so many variations on what we do.

[Jim Dwight]

If you can spend $400 or more for a sander you need to listen to the other guys. I guess I could but I won't. I don't buy really cheap ones, by my definition, either. I don't buy Black and Decker or Skil, for instance. I have and they didn't get the job done. I buy Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita or Bosch. I've read the newest Bosch may even be a challenger to the high end sanders. But what I use are a couple DeWalts, a 5 inch and a 6 inch. The 6 inch works fine but is a bit hard to control, especially one handed. It gets used to flatten table tops and other big jobs. The 5 inch gets used the most. The predecessor of the DeWalt was a Milwaukee which disentigated after a few years. I bought the DeWalt partially because it could use the leftover disks from the Milwaukee. I think any of the brands I mentioned will do pretty good work, possibly with a little more wear and tear on you or a little more time required than the high end ones. For what I do, hobby usage, that tradeoff makes sense to me.

[Jamie Buxton]

In the 5" class, I'd buy the new Festool ETS sander. It has a lower profile than the older Festool ROS. But then I've had much better service from my Festool 6" ROS than you have had.

[david minnery]

Victor,
I was not very clear. I've had 2 in 4 years. My first had an electrical problem at 3 years and 2 months.
The thing that's driving me nut is stripping out the threads when putting on a new sanding pad.
Ceros is the front runner

[Prashun Patel]

Ceros is a bit of a Domino type purchase. There are CERTAINLY respectable, lower cost solutions. But the ergonomics of this sander really make it a winner for me. The decoupling of the motor from the sanding body makes it super low profile. The paddle switch can be set to on/off or pressure-sensitive.

The orbital action is better than the bosches I've used in the past (which were great sanders too).

The motor has well outlasted my previous 2 sanders.

And the clincher is the dust collection. I can sand indoors with a shopvac. I couldn't do that before.

On another subject, the "replacing the pads numerous times" surprises me. I do a lot of shaping curves with my ROS, which is a killer for pads and paper. But If I use backers (like the ones you can get from Mirka for their Abranets - although they work for any paper) the pads last much longer. Another nice thing about the pad changes on CEros is that use a wrench and just hand-tighten. So there are no screws to strip.

[peter gagliardi]

If you go Mirka, skip the Ceros, and get the Deros. Simpler, and more portable- don't need to drag a "power pack" with it, just plug it in, and hook up a dust hose.

[John TenEyck]

If you don't want to spend $400, like me, the Bosch ROS65VC is an excellent machine, said from the perspective of a hobbiest woodworker who is more active than many. It's available with a 5" or 6" pad, or as a kit with both. It was rated highest for DC with the on board cannister in a FWW article a couple of years ago, but comes with an adapter so it can be hooked up to a vacuum. The VC stands for Vibration Control, and it is very smooth and easy to handle, no problem with one hand. I've run it for more than an hour straight and it does not get hot. And, of course, it has variable speed control. It has done everything I've asked of it, 80 to 600 grit, beautifully. For about $200 it is a great deal, IMO.

John

[Tom Ewell]

Along the lines of what Prashun mentioned, whatever sander you choose, get some pad protectors.

[Leo Graywacz]

If you go Mirka, skip the Ceros, and get the Deros. Simpler, and more portable- don't need to drag a "power pack" with it, just plug it in, and hook up a dust hose.

I disagree. The Ceros is worth having the power pack for it's smaller size. I had a Ceros that needed warranty repair and the place I borrowed it from let me borrow the Deros. It's as good a sander as the Ceros but it's bigger. It's not as nimble as the Ceros and can't get into as tight as a space the Ceros can. The Deros would be my 2nd choice.

[Martin Wasner]

I have not used the Deros, I selected the Ceros for the same reasons Leo mentioned. Smaller, more maneuverable.

The box is a non issue unless you're moving from a thirty foot circle on the regular. I think the factory cord from the box is 15' long. Might be 12'.


The best thing you can do to protect the pad is use a cloth backed abrasive. We use a cloth back with no holes. (The bulk of our sanding happens on a down draft table.) Or, if you use a paper back, as soon as you ding an edge, you gotta peel it and replace it.

[Wade Lippman]

If you don't want to spend $400, like me, the Bosch ROS65VC is an excellent machine, said from the perspective of a hobbiest woodworker who is more active than many. It's available with a 5" or 6" pad, or as a kit with both. It was rated highest for DC with the on board cannister in a FWW article a couple of years ago, but comes with an adapter so it can be hooked up to a vacuum. The VC stands for Vibration Control, and it is very smooth and easy to handle, no problem with one hand. I've run it for more than an hour straight and it does not get hot. And, of course, it has variable speed control. It has done everything I've asked of it, 80 to 600 grit, beautifully. For about $200 it is a great deal, IMO.

John

ROS65VC is a marvelous sander. Very effective, but it doesn't feel like it is even turned on. A bit bulky and heavy though.

I didn't like the Ceros at all. Maybe mine was defective.

[Leo Graywacz]

What didn't you like about the Ceros?

[Wade Lippman]

What didn't you like about the Ceros?

My dust collection was terrible, and using an adapter to go to a festool hose was clunky.

My hand hurts after a few minutes with my old PC333, but the dust collection is good.
And the Bosch ROS65VC is vibration free, great DC, and powerful; but a handful.
I guess I will try a Festool next.

[casey herring]

Deros is the best I've had, very light. Went from Rolex to it and it was a positive transition for me.

[Leo Graywacz]

My dust collection was terrible, and using an adapter to go to a festool hose was clunky.

My hand hurts after a few minutes with my old PC333, but the dust collection is good.
And the Bosch ROS65VC is vibration free, great DC, and powerful; but a handful.
I guess I will try a Festool next.

I use a PC vacuum hose on mine. It's 10' and I have a Fein vacuum with a 12' hose that I connect to the PC hose, so I have 22' of vacuum hose. The dust collection is pretty good. Certainly not perfect, but I have a lot of hose. It won't hold the sander like the Festool would, but that's too much suction anyway. I'm very happy with the collection, so much better then nothing like I had been using with my DeWalt sander.

[Harvey Miller]

My first one died after 2 years and I've had had stripped screws when replacing the pads numerous times.


When I strip a screw I usually blame the screwdriver. Festool really cranks that screw down. I haven’t had problems with them using decent screwdriver (may the fact it’s a german Wera helps!)

[Edward Oleen]

Haven't ever used a Festool, or Ceros or what-ever ROS, but I can't speak too highly of the DeWalt unit. I']ve had mine for ten years and it still works like new. I've had the 1/4 sheet sander for three years now, and it too is a great unit.

Both have dust collection: either with an attached catcher or with an adapter for my smaller shop vac.

[Tom Ewell]

When I strip a screw I usually blame the screwdriver. Festool really cranks that screw down. I haven’t had problems with them using decent screwdriver (may the fact it’s a german Wera helps!)
Hopefully the 'stripper-of-the-screws' is using the correct driver, my ETS 125 needs a T15 to pull the pad.
Might be able to get by with a straight slot driver but the Torx driver fits snuggly with little chance to slip out, also should be done manually, I've read too many times that a drill driver is used and the user can't understand why things go wrong.

[david minnery]

A friend lent me a CEROS for the next few weeks, looking forward to it.
I've read on the Festool Owners forum, that the pads tend to wear out fast and a lot of folks have had the screws strip.
FYI, we only use a a screwdriver socket and the proper Torx bit to remove the pad.
Generally, I go through a pad every 6 months, though we are often going of a rounded over edge to smooth out the tear out from a router bit, which can be rough on the pad.
Thanks for all the tips and info!