LN retires the 103

[Rich Riddle]

I had a Lie Nielsen 103 on order and received a phone call today indicating they had retired that plane and they would ship the 102 instead. You folks likely already know that.

[Trevor Goodwin]

They don't have any standard angle block planes on their website that I can find, the original 102 & 103 are standard angle. Bit of a pity as they are useful for face grain on small jobs and can still be used on end grain if sharp enough.

It seems like Lie Nielson are discontinuing products whereas Veritas just keep on adding.

[Jim Koepke]

It seems like Lie Nielson are discontinuing products whereas Veritas just keep on adding.

I have a Veritas tool that has been discontinued. There was also a thread not too long ago about another tool Veritas stopped making.

If they can't sell enough of them, there really isn't a reason to keep making them.

jtk

[Randy Karst]

Rich,
It is disappointing when a tool you want is discontinued (I’m still grieving the discontinued o1 chisels); for what it is worth, I have several block planes but I grab my 102 most frequently now-I think you will like it once you have it in your hands and I appreciate the low angle blade. I am hoping these things are not emblematic of LN becoming "corporatized" (numbers driven, bureaucratic and wandering from their humble beginnings of supplying "desired" premium tools to discerning woodworkers). It would be visionary, I think, of LN to create a “Custom Shop” for products still in demand by discerning woodworkers albeit in smaller quantities. Many of us would be willing to pay a little more and wait a little longer to receive a product that we want (for example Kikihiromaru chisels are at least a 2-month wait; a Blackburn Dovetail saw is at least a 2-year wait and so on; there is a niche [and profit] for this approach).

[john zulu]

I have a standard block plane. After buying the LN 102 I use it more and more. But the small mouth opening limits it to trimming and fine shavings. It hardly tears the wood within reason.
I really do not see much benefit to keep 103 around as the bevel of the blade can be increased to a std angle.

[Hilton Ralphs]

It seems like Lie Nielson are discontinuing products whereas Veritas just keep on adding.

I think that you'll see more of their products discontinued in the future. If they continually refuse to come up with any news ideas I can't see them in business in the long term. Before all the LN fanboys purge me to hand tool hell, remember that the new batch of young woodworkers have grown up in the technology age where innovation is a given and is certain expected.

Lee Valley has firmly positioned their Veritas tools between the mass produced big box store tools and the boutique stuff. Added to that is they are always coming up with some sort of improvement that appeals to the younger woodworker.

Yes I know there will always be that old codger who will want to buy the traditional look tool but seriously how many are out there?

[Niels Cosman]

Settle down folks! I hardly think that the discontinuation of tool here and there is signalling a death knell for Lie-Nielsen. I think they are doing just fine and will be around for a long time.

I also don't think that Lie-Nielsen tools are geared toward "old codgers". I like LV tools and use a fair number of them, but LN tools have always spoken to me aesthetically and functionally.
I appreciate that LV is committed to innovation in it's tools, but more sophistication does not necessarily make for better tools.
How many tools do you need? I would say that LN pretty much has the field covered. Why would you make more "NEW" tools people don't need?

Also I should just note that LV and LN have drastically different business models. LN only makes woodworking tools. LV sells all of the other products (gardening, hardware, gifts etc..). At WIA a couple of years back Rob said that the company makes more from painters pyramids than the Veritas line. I'll bet this gives them a lot more flexibility to experiment and add tools that might not be very profitable.

[Bill Houghton]

I'm still upset that they retired the cast iron version of these planes before I could buy one, though not upset enough that it keeps me up nights.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm still upset that they retired the cast iron version of these planes before I could buy one, though not upset enough that it keeps me up nights.

On "American Pickers" Mike always says, "the time to buy something is when you see it."

I wonder how much these will increase in price on the secondary market.

jtk

[Phil Gaudio]

On "American Pickers" Mike always says, "the time to buy something is when you see it."

I wonder how much these will increase in price on the secondary market.

jtk

The answer to that question will be determined this week on ebay.

[Niels Cosman]

Haha, that's my philosophy, unfortunately for my wallet I am not blind! :D
Personally, I am planning on retiring from the dividends from my "early, rare, scarce, and discontinued" LN large chisel plane. Maybe the next owner will find some use for it!

[Tony Shea]

I think that you'll see more of their products discontinued in the future. If they continually refuse to come up with any news ideas I can't see them in business in the long term. Before all the LN fanboys purge me to hand tool hell, remember that the new batch of young woodworkers have grown up in the technology age where innovation is a given and is certain expected.

Lee Valley has firmly positioned their Veritas tools between the mass produced big box store tools and the boutique stuff. Added to that is they are always coming up with some sort of improvement that appeals to the younger woodworker.

Yes I know there will always be that old codger who will want to buy the traditional look tool but seriously how many are out there?


Hilton I couldn't disagree with you more! LN is doing better in sales than they have ever done in their history. Partly due to the large hand tool woodworking resurgence that has happened in the last couple of years. But the other factor is the sheer quality of tool they are producing for the price they are charging for it. I think you should take a trip to Maine and stop over at Warren and check them out, the large addition they are doing might tell the story better than I can. I promise you they are doing fine.

[Mike Henderson]

Personally, I'd rather have the 102 than the 103. The 102 will do everything that the 103 does and it will also do end grain.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

I have the 20 degree-bed LN #103 and keep it handy to chamfer edges. It has a 25 degree bevel for a 45 degree cutting angle. This cutting angle aids in reducing the risk of tearout on fragile edges, where grain can reverse.

For the 12 degree-bed LN #102 to plane at the same cutting angle, you need a 33 degree bevel. I suspect that you would notice a drop in the "sharpness" of the edge.

The advantage of a low cutting angle - such as the 37 degrees achievable on a 12 degree bed - is in slicing end grain. Interestingly, the #103 does a pretty good job in this department.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Schtrumpf]

Back to LN retirees, the last iron #3 might be in Tom's toolbox.

[Niels Cosman]

I'm still upset that they retired the cast iron version of these planes before I could buy one, though not upset enough that it keeps me up nights.


Hey Bill,
Get it while you can!
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/whats-new/1-102i-small-block-plane?node=4128

[Mike Brady]

It does indicate "Out of Stock" on the website, but maybe they have parts to make up a few more planes. When they are truly gone, there is typically no listing of the item, period.

[Niels Cosman]

I believe it was in-stock in the "Tom's toolbox" when I first saw it. Perhaps there was a run by all of those e-Bay speculators! :D

[Joe McMahon]

I'm a codger and I buy Lie Nielsen. Just sayin

[Hilton Ralphs]

I'm a codger and I buy Lie Nielsen. Just sayin

As have I. The little bronze 102 of mine is an awesome tool.

[Marty Schlosser]

I bit the bullet and purchased a 102 in bronze with the holster a number of years ago. It's a great little plane. Then... I recently won a LV apron plane with the PM-V11 blade and found that I like it more than the LN 102, which has always been a bit of a pain to adjust the iron "just right". To my way of thinking, it's a no brainer if you're looking for a great working plane with an equally awesome pricetag.

[Phil Gaudio]

On "American Pickers" Mike always says, "the time to buy something is when you see it."

I wonder how much these will increase in price on the secondary market.

jtk

According to the ebay auction that just closed, a brand new one just sold for $153.50.

[David Dalzell]

I have the LN 103 and I use it often. Mainly for softening edges and for shaving down the dovetail pin protrusions on drawers. I also have an old Stanley low angle block plane which I sometimes use for the same things. However the LN 103 is smaller and thus much more comfortable in my hand. If I didn't have it I could live with my low angle Stanley, But I would miss the LN 103.

[David Dalzell]

OOPs I screwed up. I have the LN 102 not the LN 103. Sorry!!!!