School clock help

[Justin Koenen]

Have an eight-day wind up school clock that my son and I made in the seventies. It runs for a while and then quits. Called a mobile repairman (referred by a reputable jeweler) and he suggested the movement be replaced. Looked on the net and a similar replacement is $350 or more! Do movements ( This is a Jauch..sp) go bad that soon? Really have no other trustworthy person locally for repair. Any experienced advice out there?

Thanks in advance, Justin

[Dan Hintz]

I'm assuming this is a relatively open movement? Sounds like some good soaking with a degreaser followed by an alcohol bath and a silicone lubricant would do wonders.

[roger wiegand]

Most clocks are going to require re-bushing every 20-40 years or so. Some modern movements are made of softer brass than older clocks and go out as soon as 10 years or so. Once the bushings have been replaced they will be good for another 30+. Cleaning and oiling is a good start (use a good quality clock oil, never something like 3-n-1 that leaves a gummy residue), but you may well have reached the time for some work.

Any competent clock person should be able to do this work, finding one is of course the problem. It would be unusual these days for a jeweler to be able to provide such a service. You may want to find a local member of the NAWCC (Nat Assoc Watch and clock collectors) who may be able to refer you to a good repair person (there are two Iowa chapters)-- most good clock guys have a 2-3 year waiting list and don't advertise, so you won't find them in the yellow pages or web) Most will not be very interested in working on such a new clock, but if you play up the father/son sentimental attachment you can probably find someone to work on it for you. Cleaning and re-bushing will probably run you $200+. Finding a new movement these days that is not junk from India or China is hard, chances are your older movement is better quality and worth fixing.

[Kev Williams]

I bought the wife a big Ridgeway grandfather clock in 1993, about 9 years ago the timing of the chimes started getting longer and longer, until they just stopped. The gears were just dirty enough that the weights couldn't overcome the friction from the guck. The big heavy pendulum wasn't affected, so the clock ran fine. Back then I found a can of CRC silicone spray, and after stuffing rags where I could to catch the overspray, I pretty much drowned the entire movement with the spray. The stuff seemed to evaporate almost as fast as I sprayed it. The clock has run perfectly since then, UNTIL the middle of this summer, when the chimes started slowing down again. So I bought another can of CRC silicone spray...

Only this time, it didn't seem to evaporate at all, and unlike the first time, this was almost like spray glue. The can says HEAVY DUTY SILICONE, which I'm assuming is the problem. So now the movement is a mess. They have a DRY silicone spray, which is probably what I used the first time.

I know what will definitely clean the guck all out--- CRC "Brak-Kleen" brake parts spray cleaner. In the old days brake cleaner was predominately trichloroethane, which California banned (I think) and can attack some paints and plastics. There's 2 types of Brak-kleen, one is in a green can and is 'non-chlorinated'. The other is in a red can. The paradox is, the red can's main ingredient iis Tetrachloroethylene, which is essentially dry cleaning fluid, and should be pretty safe. The non-chlorinated's main ingredients are Acetone, Toluene and Methanol, ALL of which can attack plastics! So, I'll be getting the red can! And a can of dry silicone spray, and just lightly dust it afterwards.

That all said, if the movement in your clock is 'in the open' or the rest of the clock can be protected from overspray, consider giving it the same treatment... :)

[Lee Schierer]

Wind up clocks require regular cleaning and oiling. When they quit it is generally because they are dirty and the lube has dried out. Find a local person that works on clocks. Some antique stores can give you a lead.

I just took possession of three old wind up clocks. I had a clock guy that lives just a mile down the road clean and lubricate them. They have kept perfect time ever since and the chimes or bells work.

[Troy Livingston]

Justin,

You have done well, frequently these fail in half the time. Odds are an exact replacement for your Jauch movement is not available excepting on the used market. You may be able to find one with less wear but will eventually be back to looking for a replacement. In some cases a current Hermle movement can be installed with minor modifications but without knowing which movement you have I can’t say much more.

I would resist the urge to spray the movement with WD40 or any other wonder lube. This is generally worse than useless and if you decide to get the movement repaired will probably end up costing you more.

If the movement has been sitting unused for some time and has little wear but the original oil has hardened then a fresh application of oil can get things going again. Not ideal but it may work for years.
However, to do this correctly you need to remove the movement from the case and carefully oil the pivots. Spraying any sort of lubricant will only make a mess, getting oil all over parts that should be clean. Never oil the wheel teeth or pinion leaves. As a rule I’m not a fan of applying fresh oil to dirty oil, you may go a little further between overhauls but will have more damage to repair. Plus people typically over oil causing other problems.

If you have been running the movement all these years then you have wear and tear and the application of oil will do no good. Dirt contaminates the oil and gets driven into the softer brass and begins wearing at the harder steel pivot. The worn pivot then cuts into the brass and the process accelerates. There is a “sweet spot” of depthing between the wheel and pinion, the wear occurs at one side of the pivot hole elongating the hole thus changing the depthing between the wheel and pinion creating a loss of power.
When you lose enough power the clock stops. No amount of oil will correct this.
There are ways of repairing this damage without disassembling the movement but they are all ineffective and ultimately damaging to the movement. The only proper way to correct the situation is to repair the pivots and bush the worn holes. This takes time and is why the cost of an overhaul may seem expensive. Frequently it is more economical to just replace the movement with a new one, although I’m not hearing very positive things about the movements coming out of Germany these days. It may be better to get the original movement overhauled.

Clear photos of the movement may help.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

If he doesn't see this thread, send a PM to member Bernie Weishapl. He has a clock repair business in his home in Goodland, KS. He can probably give you some good advice.

[Mel Fulks]

I know with the tall case clocks the pendulum can start to make the whole case move and there by make clock stop. The movement is so slight you don't see it, most puzzling til someone informs you. Test the clock on the most solid strong surface before deciding that it needs work.Stone counter top might be good.

[Steve Peterson]

I bought the wife a big Ridgeway grandfather clock in 1993, about 9 years ago the timing of the chimes started getting longer and longer, until they just stopped. The gears were just dirty enough that the weights couldn't overcome the friction from the guck. The big heavy pendulum wasn't affected, so the clock ran fine. Back then I found a can of CRC silicone spray, and after stuffing rags where I could to catch the overspray, I pretty much drowned the entire movement with the spray. The stuff seemed to evaporate almost as fast as I sprayed it. The clock has run perfectly since then, UNTIL the middle of this summer, when the chimes started slowing down again. So I bought another can of CRC silicone spray...

Only this time, it didn't seem to evaporate at all, and unlike the first time, this was almost like spray glue. The can says HEAVY DUTY SILICONE, which I'm assuming is the problem. So now the movement is a mess. They have a DRY silicone spray, which is probably what I used the first time.

I know what will definitely clean the guck all out--- CRC "Brak-Kleen" brake parts spray cleaner. In the old days brake cleaner was predominately trichloroethane, which California banned (I think) and can attack some paints and plastics. There's 2 types of Brak-kleen, one is in a green can and is 'non-chlorinated'. The other is in a red can. The paradox is, the red can's main ingredient iis Tetrachloroethylene, which is essentially dry cleaning fluid, and should be pretty safe. The non-chlorinated's main ingredients are Acetone, Toluene and Methanol, ALL of which can attack plastics! So, I'll be getting the red can! And a can of dry silicone spray, and just lightly dust it afterwards.

That all said, if the movement in your clock is 'in the open' or the rest of the clock can be protected from overspray, consider giving it the same treatment... :)

Yikes. A clock repair shop will probably put you near the back of the line if you bring in a movement that has been sprayed with silicone spray. The WD40 contaminated clocks are even further back.

The only part of a clock that should be lubricated are the pivots. These are the parts where the axles turn in the case. The gears themselves do not need lubricant and will often wear out faster if they are lubricated. Oil will allow dust to settle on the gear teeth and the dust is more abrasive than steel on brass.

They make oils specially for clocks and some of these clocks have been running for 100s of years with oiling every 5 years and re-pivots every 30-40 years. Some people on the clock forums say that Mobil 1 synthetic oil is as good or better than old fashioned clock oils. It only takes a very small drop on the end of toothpick to oil each pivot.

Steve

[Marty Schlosser]

I know that what I'm about to say is sacrilegious to lovers of traditional clockwork movement casepieces, but here goes anyways. My wife has a very old mantle clock her great-grandparents purchased in Canada shortly after they came over from Europe at the turn of the century (the previous one, that is...). It has never been repaired to the best of the family's recollection and as can be expected, no longer runs, nor has it ever since her Mother inherited it from her Mother. It sits on our mantle and looks very pretty. We had it evaluated and it's worth basically nothing but family memories. I am therefore contemplating replacing the clockworks with an electronic movement and hopefully being able to keep the original hands.

Thoughts on this idea?

[Lee Schierer]

I would first take it to a clock repair person and see if it can be fixed. Most old clocks can be cleaned and made to run by a competent repair person.

[Bruce Page]

I know that what I'm about to say is sacrilegious to lovers of traditional clockwork movement casepieces, but here goes anyways. My wife has a very old mantle clock her great-grandparents purchased in Canada shortly after they came over from Europe at the turn of the century (the previous one, that is...). It has never been repaired to the best of the family's recollection and as can be expected, no longer runs, nor has it ever since her Mother inherited it from her Mother. It sits on our mantle and looks very pretty. We had it evaluated and it's worth basically nothing but family memories. I am therefore contemplating replacing the clockworks with an electronic movement and hopefully being able to keep the original hands.

Thoughts on this idea?

I have toyed with the idea of ditching the original movement. I have a 66 year old English mantel clock with the same heritage - no real value other than it was given to my grandfather on his retirement. I have had it overhauled 3 or 4 times over the last 40 years. The last overhaul two years ago was over $200.
We used to have a few clock repairman locally, we are now down to one that I know of. I may have no choice but to "modernize" it the next time it dies.

[Al Launier]

Suggest you don't take it to school in a brief case, especially if there are loose wires attached. :rolleyes:

[Mike Henderson]

I know that what I'm about to say is sacrilegious to lovers of traditional clockwork movement casepieces, but here goes anyways. My wife has a very old mantle clock her great-grandparents purchased in Canada shortly after they came over from Europe at the turn of the century (the previous one, that is...). It has never been repaired to the best of the family's recollection and as can be expected, no longer runs, nor has it ever since her Mother inherited it from her Mother. It sits on our mantle and looks very pretty. We had it evaluated and it's worth basically nothing but family memories. I am therefore contemplating replacing the clockworks with an electronic movement and hopefully being able to keep the original hands.

Thoughts on this idea?

I would keep the movement and get it repaired. While it may have no monetary value, it has family value. In the future a descendent may wish to have the clock just because it was part of the family. Once you convert it to an electronic movement, that family heritage is gone.

A mechanical clock can always be repaired. Bushings can be put in and replaced if they wear out.

Mike

[Mel Fulks]

I see now my post might not be applicable. Think I took "wind up " to mean weight driven . Sounds like your clock is spring driven. Sorry

[Troy Livingston]

Guys,
As someone who has been working on clocks for basically half of his life I say please don’t do it.
It is far better to leave it as a family piece on the mantle, a static display for future generations to restore than to remove the movement and replace with quartz. It is an unfortunate fact that these artifacts have little financial value these days, antique furniture is in much the same state.
Even if you carefully pack the movement in a box and store in a safe place it becomes more likely that it will be forgotten and lost with each passing year. I know people who have searched for years to find replacement movements to restore their “quartzified” clocks.

Put a small quartz clock in the room if you need to tell the time and if people give you a rough time about the nonfunctional antique just say it is exactly right twice a day.

Marty & Bruce, sorry I don’t know anyone in your areas that I can recommend. There are few I do recommend as there are a lot of hacks out there. I suppose you could ask your local folks what they will do when they overhaul your clock.
A proper overhaul requires a complete disassembly of the movement, pivots made smooth and burnished, with holes bushed as required. Anyone cleaning assembled movements (dunk and swish) or who says closing holes with punches or the use of Rathbun bushings is acceptable should be avoided.

[Justin Koenen]

Thanks to all who have related your experience with this type of movement. I have shipped it off to have it cleaned, bushings replaced, and adjusted,etc. As was indicated in several replies, This movement is no longer available. Just decided to not have to re-do mounts and so on. Will be $250.00 plus but then the son still has things as original when it is passed on. Thanks again ... enjoy this forum and all your inputs. Justin

[Bruce Page]

For future reference, who did you contract to refurbish it? I'll likely have to go that route next time.

[Justin Koenen]

Hi Bruce, I chose to go with Clock Works in Mass. They are on line as clockworks.com. If any issues arise...will give a "heads up. Good Luck, Justin

[Bernie Weishapl]

Justin I am a little late and got a heads up by Ken. I have been doing clocks for about 35 yrs now. Jauch is no longer in business and there is a replacement by Hermle for those units but I see you found a place to have it fixed. IMHO a clock of mechanical nature needs to be cleaned and oiled every 8 yrs or so. I always say you aren't going to run a Caddy for 75,000 miles without a oil change and a clock needs regular maintenance such as complete disassembly, cleaning, repairs as needed, then oiled and on the test stand for a couple week run. What has happened with your clock the oil in the pivots and mainsprings has dried or congealed which makes it difficult to run. I hope all comes out well for you. I haven't heard anything bad about Clock Works and in fact have bought a few parts from him. Be interesting to see how it comes out. Right now in my shop I have about a 4 to 5 month backlog of clocks to be worked on. Not many of us left anymore. I am the only one within a 200 mile radius of me.

[Justin Koenen]

Hello Bernie and all, Just received my works and, hopefully, I'll get it back where it belongs. Looks like it got"the business" so am betting on the Clockworks folks. Discovered the same re: Jauch. Think I bought right in the beginning. Paid $34.85 to my door in '79. Have had it re-lubed three times. Thanks Justin

[Wade Lippman]

How much was the repair?

My wife came with 100 year old clock 30 years ago. We got it repaired and tried running it, but the ticking sounded like a truck running through the house; so now it is just an ornament.