Saw blade speed: why Europeans are faster?

[Susumu Mori]

I'm just curious.

For bandsaws, Delta and Asian clones run at about 3,000 - 4,000 fps while Europeans run at 5,000 or higher.
For table saws, Asian clones run at 3,000 - 4,000 rpm at arbor while Europeans approach 5,000 rpm, even with larger blade capacity. With a 315mm blade, the blade tip speed must by much higher than what typical 10-inch cabinet TSs deliver.

I'm just wondering if somebody shed some light on why Europeans like higher speeds....
I don't think it is related to their fondness to motor sports:confused:

[Michael Weber]

Have anything to do with the fact they use 50Hz power? Are those specs for saw imported to the USA or the ratings for the home country?

[Tom M King]

Are you looking at the same size saws?

[Steve Peterson]

I have no idea either. I bought a Minimax bandsaw on CL for a really good price. The previous owner converted it from 3 phase to single phase, so I don't know the original speed. However, it seemed to be way too fast at around 5000fps. I swapped the 3hp 3600rpm motor with a 2hp 1800rpm motor and am much happier.

Steve

[Erik Loza]

Have anything to do with the fact they use 50Hz power? Are those specs for saw imported to the USA or the ratings for the home country?

This is correct about the difference in Hz (all my technical literature on our machinery indicates "at 50Hz") but not sure if it applies here. If they are giving you a blade speed at 50Hz, it's going to 20% faster on our frequency.

Honestly, I take all that blade speed stuff with a grain of salt. How do you really measure it? And if you did, would it matter? Does the saw (and blade) cut OK? I've sold as many Euro table saws and bandsaws as anyone and honestly, never once had a customer tell me that the blade was moving "too fast" or anything like that. It's just never come up as a real-world issue for me.

Erik

[David Kumm]

Keep in mind that speed is also related to the build of the machine. Old 18" table saws still ran at 3450 rpm or faster even though the tip speed is way more than needed. The saw could handle it. Particularly true of bandsaws. Takes a good build and well balanced wheels to handle the higher speed. Old cast iron saws typically ran between 6000-8400 fpm, and could be ordered even faster. Small hobby type saws aren't built for it. Doesn't mean you need the high speed but higher end stuff is made to shove wood through at a fast rate for longer periods vs the occasional use most smaller machines see. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm just curious.

For bandsaws, Delta and Asian clones run at about 3,000 - 4,000 fps while Europeans run at 5,000 or higher.
For table saws, Asian clones run at 3,000 - 4,000 rpm at arbor while Europeans approach 5,000 rpm, even with larger blade capacity. With a 315mm blade, the blade tip speed must by much higher than what typical 10-inch cabinet TSs deliver.

I'm just wondering if somebody shed some light on why Europeans like higher speeds....
I don't think it is related to their fondness to motor sports:confused:

Hi, If you look at tool manufacturer information you'll find suggested blade speeds for the tooling.

Carbide circular saw blades are in the 60 to 100 m/s range for hardwood and softwood, which works out 3,764 to 6,267 RPM for a 300mm diameter blade (12").

My Euro saw runs 4,800 RPM which is a good compromise. Better saws may have 3 or 4 blade speed selections available.

Band saw blade speeds are in the 3,000 to 8,000 SFM range..................Rod..

[Curt Harms]

I always figured the bigger machines ran faster because they were more likely to be used in a commercial application and faster blade speed made for more feet/better cut quality per hour.

[Thomas Canfield]

Have anything to do with the fact they use 50Hz power? Are those specs for saw imported to the USA or the ratings for the home country?

The saws in question are belt driven and a change in pulleys would compensate for the difference in Hz and produce any blade speed desired. The Hz would be a factor for direct drive and I do not know how a 50Hz motor would do on 60Hz or the other way.

[Greg R Bradley]

A normal Induction motor is 2 or 4 pole, sometimes 6. It costs a bit more to make more poles, which makes the motor run slower.
On 50Hz, a 2 pole motor runs 50 revolutions per second, or 3000 revolutions per minute.
On 60Hz, a 2 pole motor runs 60 revolutions per second, or 3600 revolutions per minute.
There is a certain amount of slip at the point the motor makes its maximum horsepower. That is why a 3600rpm motor has a rated horsepower at 3450rpm, even though it basically runs 3600rpm at no load.
4 pole motors run half those speeds and 6 pole motors run a third those speeds.
There are some various different designs but this is the basics.

[roger wiegand]

Honestly, I take all that blade speed stuff with a grain of salt. How do you really measure it?

For a circular saw multiply pi X diameter to get circumference then X rpm to get ft/min. Pretty straightforward. For a bandsaw just use the diameter of the drive wheel. Measure rpm with any tachometer.