Bench Height

[Kent Adams]

As I look over my plans for a bench and trying to figure out how high to make mine, based on no knowledge of using planes, I came across this video from Paul Sellers. In the video, Sellers makes the case that you can work with a bench that is higher than others might argue for and use more of your upper body than your lower body to plane. He shows how just a properly sharpened and adjusted plane requires no downward force to make nice shavings. I thought it was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJHrSmZQx10

[Mike Cherry]

I built a bench that he advocates and I followed his recommended height of 38". What I found was that it was great for joinery but planing was uncomfortable. I cut a couple inches off and was still unhappy with planing. Now I sit at 32" and planing is quite comfortable. The downside, is that I can feel strain on my back when dovetailing at this height. I'm probably going to build a moxon that sits on top of the bench.

One final unrelated note, I will not be building a tool tray on my next bench.

[Kent Adams]

One of the things someone said about Sellers is that all his work is done with his forearm straight in line with what he is working on and fairly level when he needs the accuracy. I looked at several of his videos to verify that and it seems true.

[Pat Barry]

I made mine the same height as my table saw because I don't have a lot of room in between, having a taller bench would cause issues with cutting on the table saw, and the bench at the seem height means it works as an outfeed support for the table saw. As far as planing goes, I don't have a problem. Its a nice height. Not too tall, not too short. I do think with doing work like sharpening a saw or cutting dovetails, things where it helps to be close to the work, higher is much better so something like the moxon would be a nice upgrade.

[ken hatch]

As I look over my plans for a bench and trying to figure out how high to make mine, based on no knowledge of using planes, I came across this video from Paul Sellers. In the video, Sellers makes the case that you can work with a bench that is higher than others might argue for and use more of your upper body than your lower body to plane. He shows how just a properly sharpened and adjusted plane requires no downward force to make nice shavings. I thought it was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJHrSmZQx10


I built a bench that he advocates and I followed his recommended height of 38". What I found was that it was great for joinery but planing was uncomfortable. I cut a couple inches off and was still unhappy with planing. Now I sit at 32" and planing is quite comfortable. The downside, is that I can feel strain on my back when dovetailing at this height. I'm probably going to build a moxon that sits on top of the bench.

One final unrelated note, I will not be building a tool tray on my next bench.

Kent,

Mike indirectly made a very good suggestion. If this is a first bench, build it tall and designed to be shortened if needed then adjust down after working on it for awhile if it is too tall. I can sound like a broken record on first bench builds, usually the first time bench builder doesn't have a clue what will work for him/her and what doesn't and they tend to over think the build wanting to make the Taj-Ma-Bench that is perfect. Some folks can end up with the perfect bench, most don't. Instead build a simple, cheap bench that is quick to build. Work on it for awhile to see what you like and don't. Build another that fits your needs better and so on. The old benches that don't quite fit can work great as sharpening benches and/or other uses. One of mine is in use with the Moxon vise mounted and the shooting board's home, another is a sharpening bench. They are great for those uses but had some problems as the primary bench. The current primary bench is as close to perfect as one can be, I could have/would have never built it as the first bench.

Of course....YMMV.

ken

[Kent Adams]

Ken, yes, I do have the Taj-Ma-Bench in mind :). You make a good point though. I wonder if I should just get one of the Sjorberg's junior/senior bench, which Woodcraft has on sale now and try it out. It's relatively cheap at $239 and with an addition, is 34" high. I'm 6'1" with shoes on.

[Brian Holcombe]

IIRC my bench is 34" and is pretty good for me, at 5'10". I like my wrist to be straight in most working situations.

[ken hatch]

Ken, yes, I do have the Taj-Ma-Bench in mind :). You make a good point though. I wonder if I should just get one of the Sjorberg's junior/senior bench, which Woodcraft has on sale now and try it out. It's relatively cheap at $239 and with an addition, is 34" high. I'm 6'1" with shoes on.

Kent,

Do a google on Mike Siemsen's Naked Wood Worker for a easy to make very inexpensive bench.

I think you would be better served by building a bench. First because after building one most of the mystery is gone and you could end up with a much better bench for about the same money.

Here is a video of one of his benches in action:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhn-PAfEW4

ken

[Kent Adams]

Kent,

Do a google on Mike Siemsen's Naked Wood Worker for a easy to make very inexpensive bench.

I think you would be better served by building a bench. First because after building one most of the mystery is gone and you could end up with a much better bench for about the same money.

Here is a video of one of his benches in action:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhn-PAfEW4

ken

It's funny, I was just watching that video the other day. The only thing I don't like about Mike's bench is there are no vices and it looks like it sits about 2 feet from the floor. He claims on his website the cost is between $600-$700, which is hard to believe, he might be including the tools in that figure.
See a picture here: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0306/3197/products/mike_boring_IMG_8484_1024x1024.jpg?v=1421788297

[Steve Voigt]

I can sound like a broken record on first bench builds, usually the first time bench builder doesn't have a clue what will work for him/her and what doesn't and they tend to over think the build wanting to make the Taj-Ma-Bench that is perfect. Some folks can end up with the perfect bench, most don't. Instead build a simple, cheap bench that is quick to build.
ken

You don't sound like a broken record. It's excellent advice, worth repeating. Most won't listen, but hopefully some well.


You make a good point though. I wonder if I should just get one of the Sjorberg's junior/senior bench, which Woodcraft has on sale now and try it out. It's relatively cheap at $239 and with an addition, is 34" high.

I would recommend building some version of the Nicholson bench. Ken mentioned Mike Siemsen's plan; there's also Schwarz's plan (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/download-free-plans-for-the-english-style-workbench) from his 1st book, Caleb James' Knockdown version (http://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/09/08/download-free-plans-for-the-knockdown-nicholson-workbench/), and many others.
Can you get SYP 2 x 12s where you live? If so, you could probably buy the materials for $150 or less and build the bench in a weekend. And, you would have the experience, which will come in handy if you build an improved version later.

On bench height: My main bench is a little under 34". I find it a bit high, and I recently built a knockdown bench at 32" that feels a little nicer. I must've had a hundred people try it at the LN show recently, and no one complained about the height. I use mostly wooden planes, though; a metal plane user would probably be more comfortable with 33"-34".

Regarding Sellers and his advocacy for a 38" bech, keep two things in mind. First, he's an outlier:I know of no one else who argues for such a high bench for hand-tool work. Second, Sellers doesn't really do dimensioning with planes; he doesn't seem to use anything larger than a no.4. For people who work that way, 38" may indeed be fine, but if you are using big planes and taking heavy cus, you'll be miserable at that height.

[Niels Cosman]

Bench height should be determined by your body and the type of work that you do and the tools you use most often.
My first bench was about 33 inches tall which is a little bit above palms flat on the top. This was a good middle of the road height where bench planing tasks and cutting joinery was OK.
I say OK because my arms were always bend a little too much planing and I was always hunched over a little bit sawing. The worst part about a taller bench was planing 12/4 and 16/4 stock where a couldn't use my body weight as much.

My new little home-bench is 30" which is between my first and second knuckle. This is an excellent height for planing but is very very low for joinery work. I plan on building a secondary benchtop that is between 4"- 6"inches tall with a moxon-vise for doing more upright tasks.'

[glenn bradley]

My current bench is lower than my last one and this is great most of the time. For those times when it is not . . .

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[Kent Adams]

Steve, I've got so much SYP here in NC, we practically bleed it. At Ken's suggestion, I'm going to try to build that Nicholson bench. I'm going to build the bench the same height as my tablesaw so I can have an outfeed table. I'm long wasted so I think a higher bench, 34" range would probably work better for my back. I really appreciate everyone's help here and direction. I've got no preconceived notions so I'm coming at this with an open mind. I think there is a lot of good points, especially attempting to build a starter bench first. I hate SYP, so I might use a different wood, such as a soft maple.

[Mike Cherry]

Regarding Sellers and his advocacy for a 38" bech, keep two things in mind. First, he's an outlier:I know of no one else who argues for such a high bench for hand-tool work. Second, Sellers doesn't really do dimensioning with planes; he doesn't seem to use anything larger than a no.4. For people who work that way, 38" may indeed be fine, but if you are using big planes and taking heavy cus, you'll be miserable at that height.

This is precisely why I cut mine down to its current height after trying 38 inches. It was very difficult pushing a number 8 using mostly upper body. Once I realized Sellers machines his stock and only removes mill marks with the #4, I began to realize why he advocates that height. Joinery is just more enjoyable at that height(or higher).

[Kent Adams]

This is precisely why I cut mine down to its current height after trying 38 inches. It was very difficult pushing a number 8 using mostly upper body. Once I realized Sellers machines his stock and only removes mill marks with the #4, I began to realize why he advocates that height. Joinery is just more enjoyable at that height(or higher).

Mike, what are your thoughts on Sellers method (i.e. smoothing out stock that is pre-dimensioned)? I'm new to hand tools so I'm not sure I want to or not want to fully dimension wood with hand tools. I don't have a planer or jointer machinery and likely won't because of the size of my shop and the choices I have made with the space I have to work with.

[Derek Cohen]

About bench height ... Christopher Schwarz was convincing. In retrospect, I think that he failed to consider a number of factors. Not long ago I was experiencing neck pain - unrelated to working at the bench (from leaning over a laptop and writing reports) - but found working at a low bench exaccerbated the pain - for some months it has restricted my woodworking. So I placed bricks under the legs as an experiment, and these have added 2" in height. Now the bench is 34" high, and I am finding it more comfortable. Ironically, that was the bench height of my previous bench, one I used for 18 years. I am about 5' 10" when I remember to stop slouching.


I will now add a wooden "stand" to the underside of the legs to made this height more permanent (although the bricks did not affect stability).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Cherry]

Mike, what are your thoughts on Sellers method (i.e. smoothing out stock that is pre-dimensioned)? I'm new to hand tools so I'm not sure I want to or not want to fully dimension wood with hand tools. I don't have a planer or jointer machinery and likely won't because of the size of my shop and the choices I have made with the space I have to work with.
I mill everything by hand so unfortunately I can't compare the two. I will say that I have gotten fairly efficient at analyzing a board and removing the high spots in the right places to get to flat. This is the key to milling by hand without filling trash bags with shavings. That's experience ( what little I have) speaking there Lol. I could see myself getting a thickness planer at some point, but I can't imagine ever needing or wanting a jointer machine.

[Derek Cohen]

I mill everything by hand so unfortunately I can't compare the two. I will say that I have gotten fairly efficient at analyzing a board and removing the high spots in the right places to get to flat. This is the key to milling by hand without filling trash bags with shavings. That's experience ( what little I have) speaking there Lol. I could see myself getting a thickness planer at some point, but I can't imagine ever needing or wanting a jointer machine.

I seem to go against the tide here, and always recommend the purchase of a jointer, if it were to be one or the other.

The reason for this is that it takes all the effort out of flattening a board that may be cupped or twisted, or both. It is then a fairly simple matter to mark the thickness around the circumference, and plane to this.

Additionally, a jointer will joint edges which a thicknesser does not do.

Lastly, lunchbox thicknessers are possibly the LOUDEST machines on this planet. Jointers tend to be much quieter (different motors).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

I realized after reading this thread I didn't know my bench height, I'm sure during the build it was known but I had forgotten what it was in numbers. I have found for the way I work and the tools I use most of the time a bench that comes to my wrist with arms hanging naturally is comfortable for most operations. I just measured the bench and in numbers it is 880mm (about 34.5" for the metrically impaired). I'm 5'8' with a long waist and arms.

While I can 4 square and do sometimes, like the current project with a slab that is too large to easily work with the machines, most of the time I let the electric apprentices do the scut work and use hand tools for finishing. The tools you use also make a difference, my bench height works well when I use the wood stock planes to dimension lumber but a #8 or #7 iron plane kicks my tail. Of course I figure if there is much to do the #8 would kick my rear at any bench height:). It is also the perfect height for using a wood stock smoothing plane because the wood is high enough to see and feel with little bending. I have a Moxon vise mounted on another bench that is the same height, or maybe a couple of silly mm higher than the main bench, that works well for sawing dovetails. I often sit on a low stool to chop waste which in effect makes the bench higher.

I guess the point of all this rambling is there is no one bench height that is perfect for all the things we use a bench for and everyone will need to find what works for them. Bottom line it is easier to cut a bench down than it is to add height.

ken

[Allan Speers]

I followed this guy's advice, and have been very satisfied:

http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/2011/05/11/workbench-height/

[Graham Haydon]

I like the tips of build it a bit to tall with room to trim it and keep the first build simple. We are all different and only using something will tell you if it's right for you. Tallest seems to be 38" (mine is around that) and 32" the lowest.

[Mike Cherry]

Derek, you make some good arguments for a jointer but my most hated task is thicknessing. Especially for skinny drawer parts. I always struggle with either resawing or hogging off a 1/4" or so of material to get me closer to 1/2" stock.

My Dad had a lunchbox planer and your right, that might be the loudest machine I've ever heard. I don't work all hand tools because I'm trapped in the 18th century or anything. We're a military family and move often. The thought of moving all of the machines and stuff was enough to send me looking another direction for my woodworking.

[Mike Cherry]

I like the tips of build it a bit to tall with room to trim it and keep the first build simple. We are all different and only using something will tell you if it's right for you. Tallest seems to be 38" (mine is around that) and 32" the lowest.
Graham you must be taller than normal cause I would not have guessed your bench was at 38"

[lowell holmes]

Stand with your hands at your side with a loose fist, knuckles down. The height of your knuckles at that moment is the proper height for your work bench.

[Graham Haydon]

That's the thing Mike, I think I have long legs? We're all different, "local" breeding likely helps my odd proportions. I touched on bench heights briefly in a recent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8nQpYXT8V4 . Even books I have suggest it's down to the individual.

Lowell, for me I found that method too low. Even though I use wooden bodied planes the taller bench seems to suit me.

[Niels Cosman]

I seem to go against the tide here, and always recommend the purchase of a jointer, if it were to be one or the other.

The reason for this is that it takes all the effort out of flattening a board that may be cupped or twisted, or both. It is then a fairly simple matter to mark the thickness around the circumference, and plane to this.

Additionally, a jointer will joint edges which a thicknesser does not do.

Lastly, lunchbox thicknessers are possibly the LOUDEST machines on this planet. Jointers tend to be much quieter (different motors).

Regards from Perth

Derek

The issue is really that there is no one magical bench or bench height that is ideally suited to every kind of body, handwork and tool set!

Preparing stock is generally suited for a lower bench, joinery (and other tasks)for a higher bench.
Bench appliances can bridge the gaps in height if building two benches is out of question. Also risers, shoes, and other simple or complex mechanisms can be used to adjust the height.

The question is not "should you be using a jointer?", the question is what nature and of work do you want to do, how do you want to do it and what tools will you be using?
I have never had a powered jointer for space constraints, so I can speak to milling boards and how the difference of an inch can make a huge difference if you milling boards all day (or all week). For me it was a necessity, for others is simply their interest and also none of my business.
Personally, the moment I have the space I will plop down a big honking jointer and gladly let it do the heavy work. The first thing I would do with that machine is mill up some timbers for a smallish 34-35 inch tall joinery bench.

[Allan Speers]

A lot also has to do with the type of bench you use and what accessories. For instance:

Using a deadman (or board jack) can mean lower stock for jointing, which may allow for a higher bench height.

Using an auxillary top, like the Sjobergs smart-vise etc, brings work higher for doing dovetails & such. Then the main height can be lower, which typically helps when planing.