Kitchen cabinet issue!

[Kat Croxton]

I am in the process of painting my kitchen cabinets. They were hand made in cherry by a cabinet maker who may have been... New :)
Many of the stiles have jagged cut marks - almost like a stair support. The little triangle jagged cuts are against the inset panel. This wasnt too obvious stained, but it stands out quite a bit with primer. Caulk would fix the problem - but I'm pretty sure this joint is supposed to be free. I may be able to shove paper into the crack, flat against the panel, fill the gouges with wood filler and remove the paper. I have primed with oil based primer and will use oil based paint.
Maybe I should just embrace the quirky ratty edge appreciate that everyone has to start somewhere. Although - my shop instructor would have made me start over!

[Michael Moscicki]

Can you post a picture? That would be very helpful.

And yes the panel is not supposed to be glued in the frame to allow for wood movement, so caulk would only make things worse.

[Jeff Duncan]

Caulking should be fine, just make sure you use one that's paintable and permanently flexible...meaning 100% silicone. It will allow the minimal movement the panel will have to happen without problems. Also if I'm reading your post correctly and your panels are flat, it's most likely not solid wood anyway….so no movement to worry about.

I'm surprised you can even find an oil based paint anymore! Most companies I see around here have dropped it altogether. I'm not a huge fan of oil based in this type of application. I would go with a good quality water based material instead. Just my opinion though….hate waiting for oil based to dry!

good luck,
JeffD

[Jesse Busenitz]

I am in the process of painting my kitchen cabinets. They were hand made in cherry...... I have primed with oil based primer and will use oil based paint.
Maybe I should just embrace the quirky ratty edge appreciate that everyone has to start somewhere. Although - my shop instructor would have made me start over!

Just curious but why are you painting cherry wood????

[Reinis Kanders]

Those jagged cut marks come from going against the grain and could have been minimized by pre-scoring the groove. Usually one side of the groove is the better one, any chance you can flip the door? Shaker style door could work both ways and if you are painting then filling screw holes could be easier.

[Michael Moscicki]

Just curious but why are you painting cherry wood????

+1

I wouldn't paint cherry. Cherry is too beautiful to paint over.

[Kat Croxton]

I am trying to figure out how to load photos - I will switch to my desk top. Why am I painting cherry? My kitchen is land locked. Three doorways to various rooms, one window to an Arizona room. Dark travertine backsplash all over - which we have just about totally removed. Lots of jaguar granite. Dark chamois walls and ceiling. The idiot who selected the materials had more money than sense. The kitchen was a cave. Lots of recessed lighting - but you would need to leave the lights on all day or walk thru a cave all day. Over four years we painted the ceiling white, added a solatube, and removed a builtin desk - including its uppers and granite top. Still a cave. I gave this a lot of thought. I painted the walk in pantry first and the difference was amazing. I have only done the uppers so far. I'm going to give the cherry lowers a chance while I have a break from painting the uppers. Two tone seems to be trendy.
I always paint cabinets with oil based paint. It takes forever but I think its worth the effort. Latex on woodwork doesnt look anything like oil. I would rather have the cherry cave than latex on my cabinets. Embrace the drying time!
The doors are solid cherry. You can see its the same piece of wood when you open the doors. I cant flip them, they are flat on the inside with big hinge holes. I know, I'm crazy. But I have a brighter kitchen.

[Kat Croxton]

Wow - there the pictures are! The first is of the same marks on my non cherry laundry room cabinets. The second is one of my lower doors.

[Joe Samorodin]

I just use a white wood filler and a light sand some rubber profile sandpaper holders help. Yes you can use acrylic caulk not silicone ! as it will move enough and there are many varieties that are paintable that remain flexible but I wouldn't caulk really just a small set of putty knifes some patience and wood filler.

[Kat Croxton]

Thank you - I will give this a try.

[mreza Salav]

Ouch! painting that beautiful Cherry!

[Kelby Van Patten]

I can't bring myself to advise someone on how to paint cherry white. Nothing good comes of that.

Sorry.

[Michelle Rich]

I would be tempted to remove the cherry doors and use them elsewhere in the house & make replacement pine?mdf? ply? door and paint them

[Ole Anderson]

Caulking should be fine, just make sure you use one that's paintable and permanently flexible...meaning 100% silicone.good luck,
JeffD

100% silicone and paintable in the same sentence? Is there really such a thing?

[Robert Engel]

I'm thinking Bondo and make a profile scraper.... nah, probably too much work.

I would be tempted to just leave it especially the one in the laundry room.

I would not use caulk. Nothing like this I've ever tried to caulk came out worth a darn.

[Michael Weber]

There are water based alkyd paints available now that are replacing the oil based. Both Sherwin Williams and Benjamine Moore have them and others may as well. The BM line is called Advantage. These are not latex, dry slowly and flatten pretty well. I'm currently using Advantage and find a short nap roller provides the best flattening surface other than spraying. Gallons about 50 bucks. It's rapidly replacing oil based for trim and cabinet work.

[Rich Engelhardt]

100% silicone and paintable in the same sentence? Is there really such a thing?
Yes - but - (you knew a "but" was coming, right? ;) )- you have to make sure you get the one that's marked "Paintable".
It has to cure before it can be painted, but, it will accept paint.



FWIW - painting that beautiful cherry is darned near a sin - plus as mentioned above, no good can come of it.

Plus those raised panels are going to look horrid once they are painted.
There's always going to be a dark "witnesss" line around the inside where the panel and the rails and stiles meet.
@ the very least, take the doors off and sell them.

They were made to be natural finish, not painted.
Painting them will just destroy them and be a total waste of time effort and money.

Replace the doors with ones made to be painted while they are still worth something.

[Mel Fulks]

Kat, I see this pretty much the way you do. The cherry is pretty ,but was wasted , that panel non-match is wretched , I would not be able to look at that each day. And there are no pieces of the wood big enough to use use for anything much.And cherry can't be "re-melted". It is a native wood that has been used for everything from painted porch boards to readily available fire wood. So I would ,like you,paint them. As you are finding out white paint is a great way to find all of the mistakes made by the guy who thought he was a cabinet maker. What cherry costs is irrevelant.

[Mark Wooden]

The little "check marks " are tear out from running the stock too fast/against the grain/ unsupported cut. It'll be a PIA but filling with a good high grade filler and sanding is about your best option.
I have tinted and thinned primer and shot it into the joint around panels to minimize the dark line around the panels during seasonal movement, but you have to really move things around to prevent gluing the panel in with the paint. YMMV

I'm with Mel on this, yeah, cherry's nice, but sometimes painting is a much better choice. Maybe some of the naysayers here would make a set of paint grade doors for you and trade for the cherry?;)

[Jim Dwight]

I like light weight spackle for situations like this. But I also like Duo-sil caulk. It is a urethane so it is about as flexible as a silicone but is paintable. Not available at big box stores but it's worth going to a contractor place. It is typically only $3-4/tube.

You need a sprayer but I would load up my Fuji Mini Mite with Hood's stain blocking primer and then some Resisthane and would have white doors in little time. The primer is sandable and might even help with the messes. Both dry in a couple hours so you could do 3 coats in a day. And have nice smooth and durable doors when you are done.

[Sid Matheny]

That is sacrilegious but to each, his own!

[Jeff Duncan]

100% silicone and paintable in the same sentence? Is there really such a thing?


Yes there is and it's the only thing IMHO that will remain flexible over time. The acrylic stuff and other silicone mixes will NOT stay flexible over time in my experience, regardless of what the tube says!

Kat, as far as paint goes I also would not use Latex. I was referring to the more modern paints that are now hard to tell apart from oil once dried. Not sure where your located, but unless you get lucky and find some old stuff you just cannot find oil based interior paint anymore in my neck of the woods. I usually spray finishes so am not real familiar with them, but last time I needed to brush something I used one recommended by the local Ben Moore and I was impressed.

good luck,
JeffD

[Biff Phillips]

Go ahead and paint the doors. That's what you want to do.
IMO, it's going to be impossible to sell the doors.. Who is going to buy random sized cabinet doors?
Don't let people here give you the guilt trip. Sorry I can't offer advice, but I at least can give you some support.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Who is going to buy random sized cabinet doors?Lots of people buy them.
There's close to a dozen places near me where they sell all sorts of used cabinet doors.
They sell for anywhere between $5 and $25 each depending on size.

[Pat Barry]

First off - if that picture of your cherry cabinet doors is representative of the rest of them I don't blame you one iota for painting them. I don't see anything sacrilegious about painting over this stuff. You are in for a bunch of work to paint them. The question to me is, not knowing exactly what the finish is, can you clean them prime them and then paint them or do you need to sand them prime them and paint them. Hopefully the prep for painting is not too much work but as someone else suggested - use a very good quality paint whatever you do. Years ago we redid our cabinet doors and used an oil based paint - not sure you can even get that anymore. The beauty of it was that it flowed on nicely with a brush and had a hard finish. I have no experience with anything similar that is latex.

[Tom Ewell]

Target coatings offers a pigmented water based lacquer, I believe they can tint to match Benjamin Moore colors.
This is a spray system if that's what you're into.

There's a fairly inexpensive plug-in HVLP spray gun by Homeright that's not horrible, picked up one for a job where I didn't want to haul my primary spray gear. Thinned down some primer and latex and was quite surprised with the results. Haven't tried it with WB lacquer but suspect it would be OK and it should handle a kitchen job.

[Kat Croxton]

Joe, thanks! I used wood filler with a small screwdriver. I was able to drag a ball of filler past the gouges and they filled in perfectly. After sanding, I re-primed the filled areas. I have one coat of paint on so far and the doors look great. I like to use a brush on cabinets. I sand between each coat and I love the way it looks. I buy my oil based paint at Sherwin Williams. Oil paint is still legal in the wild west :)
I have painted with oil on the cabinets of four kitchens, five bathrooms, one huge laundry room, and two media builtins this way. I have always been pleased with the results.
To everyone not happy about painted cherry... The crime was committed by the woodworker. I should load photos highlighting his lack of skill. I think he may have been the previous homeowner. That would explain the expensive wood, lack of skill, and bad design choices. The couple ended up divorced... The wife must not have liked his workmanship either :)

[Michael Moscicki]

I don't know the guy, but if he was the previous owner and built the cabinets as a hobby, then it's not fair to attack him like that. All of us make mistakes at times and have to find ways to cover them up or start over. It's a different story, if they were made by a professional cabinet shop.

I like the look of cherry. I don't like painted wood unless it's a craft project like a space ship or pinewood derby car. To each his/her own. I don't want white kitchen cabinets because some magazine says they are the new trend or a real estate agent says they will bring a higher resale value.

At the end of the day build what you like.

[Kelly Craig]

100% silicone and paintable in the same sentence? Is there really such a thing?


Not in the world of professional painters.

If you need flex, think "elastomeric" in your web searches. For example, installing Hardyboard, or the equivalent, you have to leave gaps on the mandatory butt joints, then fill them with good quality elastomeric caulk.

[Kent Adams]

The little "check marks " are tear out from running the stock too fast/against the grain/ unsupported cut. It'll be a PIA but filling with a good high grade filler and sanding is about your best option.
I have tinted and thinned primer and shot it into the joint around panels to minimize the dark line around the panels during seasonal movement, but you have to really move things around to prevent gluing the panel in with the paint. YMMV

I'm with Mel on this, yeah, cherry's nice, but sometimes painting is a much better choice. Maybe some of the naysayers here would make a set of paint grade doors for you and trade for the cherry?;)

I'd slightly disagree. The check marks come from having the blade set too high and the wood not being supported on the bottom with a ZCI. I just had this issue myself and through elimination, determined it was both, no support and blade set too high. Remove either, and you get check marks.

[Reinis Kanders]

Nice that it worked, but seeing a painted cherry is a sad thing. Google chalk paint refinishing and you will find some really sad pictures of antiques repainted.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Not in the world of professional painters.

If you need flex, think "elastomeric" in your web searches. For example, installing Hardyboard, or the equivalent, you have to leave gaps on the mandatory butt joints, then fill them with good quality elastomeric caulk.
Sure is a paintable 100% Silicone....
http://www.caulkyourhome.com/ge-silicone-II-paintable-silicone.php

Has been for 40 years that I'm aware of.
It's a professional or DIY product.

[Kelly Craig]

I agree, so called paintable silicone caulks have been around decades. Most professional painters have tried them, at least once. Paint still pulled, or didn't hold up as well on them. It's probable they improved greatly in the last ten years, so would be worth considering. However, if the one you choose didn't, it would be a costly experiment [in final appearance or durability of the coating of paint after scrubbing and such].

As to replacing elstomeric with silicone, if you were doing siding and wanted the warranty honored, you go with what the company tells you to use. Keep in mind, they don't want to have to honor their warranty, so are going to recommend what the company has found works best. From my experience, the silicone tubes were cheaper than what the company recommended.

One thing the elastomerics have you will not get with your silicone is, control. It's very hard to smooth it out without getting excessive caulk on adjoining surfaces. Even a couple thousandth of an inch will show when you toss a mill or two of paint over it. As such, it might be a good idea to consider all the details before choosing a caulk that will be there for twenty years.




Yes there is and it's the only thing IMHO that will remain flexible over time. The acrylic stuff and other silicone mixes will NOT stay flexible over time in my experience, regardless of what the tube says!

Kat, as far as paint goes I also would not use Latex. I was referring to the more modern paints that are now hard to tell apart from oil once dried. Not sure where your located, but unless you get lucky and find some old stuff you just cannot find oil based interior paint anymore in my neck of the woods. I usually spray finishes so am not real familiar with them, but last time I needed to brush something I used one recommended by the local Ben Moore and I was impressed.

good luck,
JeffD