Cabinet Doors, Shaper or Router?

[Michael Stein]

All,

I am thinking of tackling a new project, and making all new doors for my kitchen. At the moment, the only router I have is a DW611 compact/trim router, no plunge router, no router table, etc. I started looking at, and pricing the components for a router table setup, and it seems like I could get a small shaper for less than (or about the same) what a half decent router table setup would cost. For reference, I am looking at the PeachTree router table extension w/ supreme fence and a triton router. On the other hand, the Grizzly G1035 is like $600, and would give me a standalone unit. The shaper cutters look a bit more expensive, but other than that, what else am I missing?

[Jamie Buxton]

What equipment you need depends a bit on the door design. You don't need a shaper if you're making slab doors. And you don't need a shaper if you're making frame-and-panel doors with mitered corners and a flat panel.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, as a long time shaper owner, I wouldn't recommend that you buy that shaper.

Purchase at least a 3 HP machine.

A shaper is has more capacity and capabilities than a router. Do a quick search in this site for router VS shaper threads.

Shaper cutters are more expensive, however Euro block heads with steel knives are an inexpensive alternative, and will outlast a router bit in solid wood.

Regards, Rod.

[Jeff Monson]

What Jamie said, depends on the type of door you are building. As you have nothing at this point I'd suggest a good router and table, more versatile IMO than a shaper for the average joe woodworker. I built my first cabinet job with raised panels on a router table, yes I had to make 3 passes for each raised panel, but it did the job. For rails and stiles a router table is great. Don't get me wrong, I love having a shaper in the shop as it shines for building doors. But if I had to choose only one that works best for everything.... I think it would be a good router and a good table.

[Michael Stein]

What equipment you need depends a bit on the door design. You don't need a shaper if you're making slab doors. And you don't need a shaper if you're making frame-and-panel doors with mitered corners and a flat panel.

Shaker style doors painted white. Flat center panel (more than likely ply). I have built cabinet doors in the past this style, using only my table saw. While it works, and the doors look/function fine, I feel making 30+ doors/drawer fronts would be easier and more efficient with a good router table, or shaper, setup.

Forget the doors for a second, maybe I need to take a step back. I have never used a shaper. I have use a router table, though I do not own one... What are the pros/cons?

[Jamie Buxton]

..Shaker style doors painted white. Flat center panel (more than likely ply). I have built cabinet doors in the past this style, using only my table saw. While it works, and the doors look/function fine, I feel making 30+ doors/drawer fronts would be easier and more efficient with a good router table, or shaper, setup...

Boy, I wouldn't bother with a router or shaper on that kind of door design. Table saw all the way. I do them cope-and-stick style; the tongue on the end of the rail fits into the dado in the style, which also holds the door panel. The plywood panel is glued in, so it is a great big gusset for the corner joinery. The whole thing is fast and strong.

[Michael Stein]

Boy, I wouldn't bother with a router or shaper on that kind of door design. Table saw all the way. I do them cope-and-stick style; the tongue on the end of the rail fits into the dado in the style, which also holds the door panel. The plywood panel is glued in, so it is a great big gusset for the corner joinery. The whole thing is fast and strong.


Interesting. Maybe I need to rethink the approach, and not the tool. Thanks for the thoughts!

[roger wiegand]

Since acquiring a shaper I seldom use my router table any more. Certainly not for raised panels or cope and stick door frames. For simple shaker-style doors as you describe I'd probably make them on a table saw rather than either router table or shaper, though for a lot of doors a tongue and groove cutter might well be faster-- less setup time unless you're set to cut them all at once.

[Justin Ludwig]

I agree with Jaime. I own a shaper and routers. I've build doors with both. Though I'd never build doors again with a router, given your situation, I'd use the table saw. simple to set up for production runs. Paint grade, I'd use 1/4" MDF for the panel, it's stable and paints well.

[Mike Schuch]

I have 2 shapers both of which I bought new. My first shaper was an ancient Walker Turner shaper with a 3/4" spindle and 3hp 3ph motor for $200. My second shaper is a Chinese 5hp 1ph shaper with sliding table and a 3/4" and 1 1/4" spindle for $400. I would pass on the Grizzly and look for a used shaper. Both Delta HD shapers and Powermatic shapers have excellent parts availability.

I too haven't used my router table since I purchased my first shaper. Doors are a great excuse to purchase a shaper in my opinion. I have had great luck with Grizzly shaper cutters. If you are running cabinet doors all day every day I could understand investing in some high end cutters but for us hobby guys I have found the Grizzly cutters to give excellent results!

[John Lankers]

Let me add my 2 cts.
If you are serious about woodworking and see this project as the beginning of a long lasting hobby (or career) then look at a used shaper with 3 hp and up with exchangeable spindle so you can use it as a shaper and a router - but make sure the whole speed change is covered. Router bits run at about 10,000 - 20,000 RPM where shaper cutters run at roughly 3,000 - 10,000 RPM. Also, as others have said there is a lot of affordable shaper cutters out there that go on a 3/4" spindle.
But if this kitchen project is the only one you're planning to do then the table saw is the way to go, you can still use your DeWalt to add decorative profiles.

[Michael Stein]

Let me add my 2 cts.
If you are serious about woodworking and see this project as the beginning of a long lasting hobby (or career) then look at a used shaper with 3 hp and up with exchangeable spindle so you can use it as a shaper and a router - but make sure the whole speed change is covered. Router bits run at about 10,000 - 20,000 RPM where shaper cutters run at roughly 3,000 - 10,000 RPM. Also, as others have said there is a lot of affordable shaper cutters out there that go on a 3/4" spindle.
But if this kitchen project is the only one you're planning to do then the table saw is the way to go, you can still use your DeWalt to add decorative profiles.

Certainly a lasting hobby, not just a one and done. I am young, 29, but plan to do this for a while (hopefully forever). Never as a job or career, strictly hobby. I sit at a desk, staring at a computer screen most the day (Healthcare IT - PACS Admin), working in the shop when I get home is an awesome way to unwind, and get my mind off work. I have two young children, so I don't get to work in the shop everyday, but an hour or two here and there. I did some rough calculations and (not including hardware) it looks like I can build doors for about an average of $6 a piece - MUCH cheaper than we can buy them, obviously way more time involved, but that is OK.

[John Lankers]

Certainly a lasting hobby, not just a one and done. I am young, 29, but plan to do this for a while (hopefully forever). Never as a job or career, strictly hobby. I sit at a desk, staring at a computer screen most the day (Healthcare IT - PACS Admin), working in the shop when I get home is an awesome way to unwind, and get my mind off work. I have two young children, so I don't get to work in the shop everyday, but an hour or two here and there. I did some rough calculations and (not including hardware) it looks like I can build doors for about an average of $6 a piece - MUCH cheaper than we can buy them, obviously way more time involved, but that is OK.

Well, woodworking is undoubtedly a hobby where you can unwind your mind after a stressful day.
Looks like you're at the entrance of that proverbial rabbit hole - you can ease your way in and explore where your preferences are or jump in head first, it's a very personal decision :).

[Peter Quinn]

I'd skip both and order the doors from an outsource manufacturer, that stile doors are too cheap to bother with in paint grade if you aren't already set up for it. Get them Pre Finished too and save that step as well. Focus on building your kitchen, let a specialist do the doors for little more than the material would cost and in a lot less time.

[Michael Stein]

I'd skip both and order the doors from an outsource manufacturer, that stile doors are too cheap to bother with in paint grade if you aren't already set up for it. Get them Pre Finished too and save that step as well. Focus on building your kitchen, let a specialist do the doors for little more than the material would cost and in a lot less time.

I am not building the kitchen, just new doors, and paint. Currently, kitchen has cheap veneered slab doors (in bad shape). The plan is to live in this home until the lady is finished with nursing school, then turn around and rent it out. We bought it CHEAP last year, just put on a new roof and installed new HVAC (condenser and air handler), and replaced all carpet with laminate. Looking to "spruce up" the current kitchen with new doors, counters, and have already installed all SS appliances. Not interested in a full kitchen reno, will never get our monies worth out of it. Want to make it nice for future renters, but low maintenance for the landlord (myself). If I build the doors, it will be cheap, and they will be easily replaceable should a future tenant destroy one.

[Jay Jolliffe]

I've built a lot of cabinet doors all different sizes & a fair amount of solid wood raised panel interior. Last job I did 19 four panel solid Mahogany doors. Exterior doors with just a 3 1/2 hp router in a table. Shaper most likely would been easier & a little faster but no space for it.

[Kelby Van Patten]

Shaker style doors painted white. Flat center panel (more than likely ply). I have built cabinet doors in the past this style, using only my table saw. While it works, and the doors look/function fine, I feel making 30+ doors/drawer fronts would be easier and more efficient with a good router table, or shaper, setup.

Forget the doors for a second, maybe I need to take a step back. I have never used a shaper. I have use a router table, though I do not own one... What are the pros/cons?

I don't agree with your first comment. Shaker style doors with a flat panel are the easiest thing in the world to make on a tablesaw. IMHO, any router/shaper setup adds an unnecessary level of complexity unless you prefer raised panels.

[jack duren]

I am not building the kitchen, just new doors, and paint. Currently, kitchen has cheap veneered slab doors (in bad shape). The plan is to live in this home until the lady is finished with nursing school, then turn around and rent it out. We bought it CHEAP last year, just put on a new roof and installed new HVAC (condenser and air handler), and replaced all carpet with laminate. Looking to "spruce up" the current kitchen with new doors, counters, and have already installed all SS appliances. Not interested in a full kitchen reno, will never get our monies worth out of it. Want to make it nice for future renters, but low maintenance for the landlord (myself). If I build the doors, it will be cheap, and they will be easily replaceable should a future tenant destroy one.

It doesn't make sense to make the doors for future rental. Just buy the flat panel doors from a cabinet shop and finish them. Around $25 each, drawer fronts $10-15....

[Kelby Van Patten]

IMHO, building doors for a rental only makes sense if you have abundant time, little cash, and absolutely no ideas for a project that you would want to keep over the long haul (furniture, etc.).

Of course, if you have lots of time and little cash, you might as well save the cash from buying a shaper and just use your tablesaw to make the doors.

[michael langman]

I built my own heavy duty router table with doubled up mdf, 2x4 mortise and tenon 2x4"s, and spent a few years mulling over the best riuter to buy for my limited income.
Wanted the PC 7518, but bought the Hitachi M12V 2 , and saved over 100.00. The router works like a dream in the table raising and lowering bits, and the router is Much quieter then all others. Exterior raised panel doors will be no problem in the future.

[glenn bradley]

I started looking at, and pricing the components for a router table setup, and it seems like I could get a small shaper for less than (or about the same) what a half decent router table setup would cost.

Basically true. The playing field levels off when you start requiring more profiles (cost of router bits versus shaper cutters). Shapers do a poor job of spinning router bits at best but, folks do it so, you'll have to think about where your woodworking is going.


Boy, I wouldn't bother with a router or shaper on that kind of door design. Table saw all the way. I do them cope-and-stick style; the tongue on the end of the rail fits into the dado in the style, which also holds the door panel. The plywood panel is glued in, so it is a great big gusset for the corner joinery. The whole thing is fast and strong.

I agree. If you are talking about right-angles only style shaker doors, the tablesaw will do the trick (http://www.table-saw-guide.com/building-cabinet-doors.html). If you are going to make it a little more interesting like so:

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suddenly the tablesaw falls short.

I would happily do a kitchen full of doors on a router table and then have it for all the other things I might do. I would not want to do 3 kitchens full of doors on a router table. If you are going to crank out doors or any other similar profile en-mass, I would use a shaper.

Don't get me wrong, a variable speed shaper that reverses and has a tilting head is a wonderfully versatile machine. A basic, single speed, non-tiling machine is sort of limited IMHO.

[Michael Stein]

IMHO, building doors for a rental only makes sense if you have abundant time, little cash, and absolutely no ideas for a project that you would want to keep over the long haul (furniture, etc.).

Of course, if you have lots of time and little cash, you might as well save the cash from buying a shaper and just use your tablesaw to make the doors.

Well, it is currently our home, and will be for the next 2 or so years, until she is finished with school. At which time, the plan is to then rent it out. So, I am not necessarily building them for a rental, but for our home, which we are living in. We may end up being here 10 years, though highly doubtful.

We have 24 cabinet doors... Buying @ $27 would cost me $648. Building @ $6 would cost me $144. Very rough estimates, but thats a difference of $504, not taking into account the drawer fronts. $500 may not make a life-long difference, but it is $500 I could put into the countertops, under-cabinet lighting, or something else in the home, or use the savings to purchase a machine that I do not have (router or shaper?). Maybe I view savings and time different than most?

[Michael Stein]

I would happily do a kitchen full of doors on a router table and then have it for all the other things I might do.


I think this sentence alone basically sums up the reason for exploring the two options. I am not looking at purchasing the router or shaper for this use, and this use only, but rather, buy now with a reason, and have it available to me whenever I need it.

On that same token, I built a storage shed just after we purchased the home. Not a prefab- drew plans, bought materials, and built. In the shed cost, I priced in a Hitachi NR90AE framing nailer. I priced it in, with the idea it was needed for that build, but now I own the tool, and can use it if/when needed. It was still cheaper (and much higher quality) to build, with the tool included in cost, than it was to buy a "kit."

[Mark Wooden]

Doing a project for and by yourself and figuring a tool or two into your cost is a smart way to go IMO-
As a professional, I own and use 4 shapers on a regular basis; also own 7 routers and use them a lot also. In your situation, I'd go with a good HD router (2+ hp) like you're looking at and make a router table -easy peasey and not very expensive for a basic, workable fixture. Look around on e-Bay for a fence off a small shaper (like a Delta or Powermatic) for ease of adjustability, but a home made fence works well too. You can get a decent cope and pattern set for less than the shaper cutters will cost. Get your project done and you'll have a good router to use for other projects. Like counters, mortise and tenon work, pattern routing, small mouldings etc- stuff that you can't or wouldn't do on a shaper. And you can figure a larger, more powerful shaper than you're looking at into your next project, like entry or interior doors, moulding for a room, etc.

[Mike Schuch]

Well, it is currently our home, and will be for the next 2 or so years, until she is finished with school. At which time, the plan is to then rent it out. So, I am not necessarily building them for a rental, but for our home, which we are living in. We may end up being here 10 years, though highly doubtful.

We have 24 cabinet doors... Buying @ $27 would cost me $648. Building @ $6 would cost me $144. Very rough estimates, but thats a difference of $504, not taking into account the drawer fronts. $500 may not make a life-long difference, but it is $500 I could put into the countertops, under-cabinet lighting, or something else in the home, or use the savings to purchase a machine that I do not have (router or shaper?). Maybe I view savings and time different than most?

Perfect you door production skills on your rental so you will have the skills to build them how you like for your dream house. Build the doors yourself because you enjoy woodworking and you appreciate the sense of accomplishment and enjoy displaying something you crafted yourself.... because in actuality the savings is going to be eaten up in the cost of the shaper and tooling.

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

There are a few different ways to make the doors, as have been detailed, so I'll stay away from that and answer the basic question. Should you get shaper, or build/buy a router table?

My answer is to invest in a shaper table. Whether you use it for this project, or not, it is a central machine in a shop.
Many people are intimidated by the shaper, but used correctly it is a safe machine.
Others argue that the cutters are more expensive than router bits, but I think if the total cost to put the first piece of wood through a shaper, or a router table, with the same profile were done,it would be a wash.
The Delta 3hp Shaper can be purchased used for as little as $350.00, and depending on the tooling it is sold with will go up from that number. It is a small shaper by professional standards. For a home shop, it is a very good sized machine.
They made zillions of them, so getting used parts is not a problem. They're all over eBay and Craiglist.
You can buy NIB, 3/4" Delta cutters all day long for < $50.00, for most of the basic profiles, and joints. It doesn't have to cost big $$$$

[Jim Dwight]

I am at the other end of the age spectrum, my son turned 33 recently. I earn money in an office, too, and do woodworking as a hobby. I am fixing up my second dedicated shop garage. It is a little smaller than my last one at 14x24. I don't have room for a shaper and a router table and I get by nicely with just a router table. I have had several and actually have two right now. I put that capability into the extension table of my table saw which has a top of 3/4 melamine. I routed the thickness down to 3/8 inch in the shape of a base for one of my PC 690 routers and poked a hole in the center for the bit to come out. I screw a fixed base onto this. I put a couple T-nuts in for the fence and built a fence with long slots for adjustment. Knobs with studs secure the fence to the extension table. I made doors like you describe for my shop on this setup. I just used luan plywood which was a bit of a sloppy fit in 1/4 grooves cut with a cope and stick bit but I caulked around them before painting and they came out fine. I sprayed them with Resisthane and Hood's stain blocking primer and was surprised at how good they looked.

A mid-sized router (like my 2 PC690s) is the normal first router purchase. A two base kit with fixed and plunge bases is very versatile. You can get 15A routers which is more powerful and not a bad idea for a dedicated router table router. The mid-sized are 12-13A and almost as powerful but easier to handle hand held. For cope and stick cuts, either is powerful enough. For panel raising in solid wood, about 1 more pass is required with the mid-sized.

I built an entire kitchen with solid oak raised panel doors using my router table and mid-sized routers. It was enjoyable and we like it. It helped sell the house when we moved.

I use a fancier router table now with a built in lift and lots of storage. I built it. I don't think you should buy a router table. I think a home made one will work better and be far less expensive. I would do something like my extension table setup to start and get and idea of what you like and don't like. Later you can build what you'll use for a few decades.

Last I looked, the Bosch mid-sized router could be had with two bases for a little over $200. That would be a good purchase and will serve you well for a long time. A PC 890 or any one of several other routers would also serve as well, but probably cost a bit more. The Bosch gets top reviews in most cases - and if it's amongst the least expensive, why not.

I will also say if you wanted to do it for a living you would be well served by a shaper. It can do raised panels in one pass. It can save a bunch of time. But for a hobbiest, with limited space, time and money, I think a router table is better. It will also do more things because there are more router bit variety than there is shaper cutter variety. But it just cannot hog off as much material as a big motor shaper with big cutters.