Festool sander/dust collector question, trying to avoid the vortex

[Scott Brandstetter]

I am considering the combo purchase, would be my first Festool purchase but wondering what I would really gain from my current setup. I ask this question respectfully because I know there are a lot of fans of Festool....not saying I don't want to be one of you.

I do all of my work in my shop. I have good dust collection and current use a variety of sanders depending on the need. I have an old, loud, craftsman shopvac attached to my various sanders (Dewalt 6 inch orbital, Fein Multitool, etc.) and it seems to collect most of the dust. I am just wondering if the old saying is true, "you don't know what you don't know". Are the Festool sanders that much better, make my life easier? I don't doubt the value of the dust collector, but again, my work is done in my shop and not in a customer's dining room.

I am not starting this thread to create a fight between those who have and those that don't. I am really wondering if in my case, it's worth dropping the cash on the dual setup. Thanks for any responses.

[Allan Speers]

I can only give you my limited experience, with a Festool RO90 DX and a CT36. None of this is exclusive to Festool, but my Festool combo does have it all:


Having the delta pads & movement is rarely needed, but when it is, there's nothing like it.

You can use this thing literally for hours, without getting numb fingers. This I think might be the most important feature.

Vari-speed is rarely important for me, but having dc-controlled CONSTANT speed is extremely important.

It gets ALL the dust, not just some of it.

Festool's "granat" abrasive disks are incredible on a variety of materials, and not very expensive at all, IMO.
I'm also very fond of their "scotchbright-like" pads.

The CT36 is very quiet, and extremely easy to carry around, even up a flight of stairs.

I've owned several other fairly high-end sanders & vacs, and I'd buy this combo again in a heart beat.

-------

That's all I got. :o

[Chris Kiely]

I Would also say that with festool sanders, there is a learning curve. They are very high quality machines, and as such, need to be handled carefully. When I first started using mine it was all over the place, skittering here and there - I thought there was something wrong with the sander. So I googled it, and found that lots of other user have the same issues.
For me, I resolved it with practise - after a few hours of practising, I could handle the machine on different grain and using different grits.

I'd suggest watching some youtube videos on them, and then if you do decide to get one, practise and be patient with it. Once you get 'the feel', it's like driving a Porsche. Very nice sander. I have the RO125.

[Harvey Miller]

I have a Festool ETS 150/5 six inch orbital sander. I found I have less hand pain after long sanding sessions than I had using a P/C 5 inch orbital 333- like a couple hours vs a couple days. I went with a Fein vacuum instead of a Festool one. To my mind I lost the systainer holding top and some accessory options (like the boom arm), but the Fein is quiet and has the tool power socket with variable suction, like the Festool. I use aftermarket HEPA filters in the Fein.

[peter gagliardi]

I run a pro shop, with 4 employees. I have used all manner of air and electric sanders over the years- Dynabrade,Hutchinson, National Detroit, Dewalt, Porter Cable, etc... Etc.....
I now own 3 Festool CT 36 collectors, and 2 of the Rotex 6" machines, and just recently invested in the ETS/EC DC sander. I have used the Rotex's for about 8-10 years as the only sanders in the shop. They perform flawlessly, though are not ergonomically the best- a bit bulky for in cabinet work.
The newest one- the ETS DC powered unit is incredibly powerful- deceptively so at only around 3.5 amps I think. You really can't slow it down without sitting on it. And it is quieter than the vac itself!
Anyway, I consider them money very well spent, and I will never, ever go back to a non- vacuum style sander!!
There were times when you would be working in a cloud in the shop! It is now just about spotless, and everyone's lungs and eyes are happy.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Scott< I have a CT26 and the 5 inch sander.

The vacuum is a revelation, quiet, portable, true HEPA certification, it's a great extractor.

The sander is great, I can now sand without my fingers and hand going numb, sanding and dust collection are incredible. The sanding is great, the sander is quiet, and the dust collection is excellent.

Regards, Rod.

[Erik Christensen]

I have a lot of Festool tools including 2 sanders and CT36. I like them and would buy them again. When I got them 5 or more years ago they were pretty unique - now there are other vendors with equivalent products - Mirka sanders and Fein vacuums come to mind. Any of the high end products would be a noticeable step up from what you are currently using and a lot healthier to use.

[Chris Merriam]

For sure the collector is much quieter, it doesn't have that high pitched screech of a shop vac, more of a lower key hum, much more pleasant on the ears.

I have the ETS 150/3, and it didn't require a learning curve, just turn it on and go for it. The attached hose is nice doing larger surfaces, rather than reach all the way across, I'll just hold on to the hose and guide the sander along (if you don't hold the hose it will catch it's ribs on any sharp edges, an overhead boom would be nice)

Dust collection is awesome. You know when you rub a sanded surface with your hand and your fingers turn all flour-colored? No coloring at all with the Festool setup.

The variable suction is nice. Sometimes you'll feel the sander grabbing a little too hard to the work, so just dial the suction down to prevent sanding swirls.

I rationalized my purchase based on health. I'll take almost any step I can to minimize my dust exposure since I work in an enclosed basement shop.

[Eric Anderson]

I have the Rotex 125 (5" rotex sander) and the CT26. I can sand a table in my living room if I wanted, the dust collection is so good. Some people on these forums don't like the Rotex, but I think it is amazing. It can rough sand better than my PC belt sander with no dust and unlike the 160 (6") Rotex, I think has better ergonomics. In RO mode, it provides very good finish up to 220 (the highest I take this sander). It is kind of similar to the older PC 5" right angle sanders, but better control, dust collection, better and faster performance, totally night and day difference.

You will definitely see a quantum difference between what you are using and the Festool. My next festool purchase will be one of the new finish sanders.

[Greg R Bradley]

A couple points:

You really need variable suction with most sanders - probably almost all. The person above that said that you don't had an RO90, which has a very small pad: 90mm. I haven't used that but it makes sense that one might not. I recently was surprised to see that I was using full suction with my ETS150/5 the other day but then realized I was using 24grit. High suction with fine grit means the sander bucks and bounces all over. Full suction means the pad sticks and the sander and your hand move.

I have Fein and Festool Vacs and the Feins work great and were much cheaper as I bought them at a steep discount at sales. The newest Feins now have a calibrated vac leak to vary suction so I would be surprised if I would like that. My local dealer still has Fein products but dropped their vacs.

My ETS125, 150/3, and 150/5 balance themselves and are a pleasure to use. The Rotax are probably not what you want for fine work, except perhaps the RO90. The RO125 has the reputation for being the hardest to control and is the only Festool item I returned during their 30-day no question warranty. Perhaps I should have stuck with it longer and learned more like another poster did above. The RO150 is lots easier to control and seems fine. It will do aggressive and then shift to fine RO but it will never be lightweight, quiet, or balance itself on horizontal surfaces. The Bosch 1250DEVS does as good a job for heavy work as the RO150 in Orbit mode. That Bosch plus a ETS150/5 make a good combo for heavy and light work around a 65' all wood yacht.

The one that is the least impressive is the ETS125. I think the best Random Orbital for general use is the ETS150/5 but some people like the smaller stroke /3 which is probably more capable of very fine work.

Can't see the RO90 being someones only sander but that probably depends on what you do. I've never touched the new ETS EC series that just came out but might wonder about the balance.

Bosch has a line of high end RO that compete with Festool. They seem excessively small stroke to me and suspend the internals on rubber band type mechanism which seems like something that wouldn't last. Not sure I trust them after discontinuing their fabulous 5" RO and replacing it with the current crummy one.

Lots of people rave about the Mirka Ceros.

[Victor Robinson]

I am considering the combo purchase, would be my first Festool purchase but wondering what I would really gain from my current setup. I ask this question respectfully because I know there are a lot of fans of Festool....not saying I don't want to be one of you.

I do all of my work in my shop. I have good dust collection and current use a variety of sanders depending on the need. I have an old, loud, craftsman shopvac attached to my various sanders (Dewalt 6 inch orbital, Fein Multitool, etc.) and it seems to collect most of the dust. I am just wondering if the old saying is true, "you don't know what you don't know". Are the Festool sanders that much better, make my life easier? I don't doubt the value of the dust collector, but again, my work is done in my shop and not in a customer's dining room.

I am not starting this thread to create a fight between those who have and those that don't. I am really wondering if in my case, it's worth dropping the cash on the dual setup. Thanks for any responses.

You'll find no shortage of people to wax poetic about their Festools. I'll just say that just because the value is there for some of us doesn't mean it will be there for you - only you can decide whether any improvements in results or pleasure is worth the $ difference. This is why the 30 day risk-free trial period is something worth taking advantage of, unless you're positive it's better to live in ignorance. For many of us ignorance may have been a good thing.

[johnny means]

I think the sanders, I've got a few, are a definite improvement over lesser brands. The "dust extactor":rolleyes: is a sweet little luxury, but any old shop vac will capture dust and suction can easily be controlled with a shop made blastgate.

[peter gagliardi]

In all the time I have owned my sanders and vacs, I have never felt the need for less suction. It has been full on since new. The only time the sander speed gets changed off of full on is when my brothers are sanding between coats of finish.
Doing this for a living, creates a different mindset and approach than part time or hobby work, though proper and thorough sanding is necessary for a quality product, I don't want it taking any longer than necessary.

[Bill Adamsen]

Scott:

I "drank the coolaid" and purchased the Festool vac and sanders. I bought the Rotex 150 and the new ETS-EC150 brushless. They work fine ... not perfect ... but much better than sanding in the shop without the system. I am now trying to get adapters for some of my older 5" orbital sanders. There have been some nice surprises. I needed to use my PC biscuit jointer and the hose fit on perfectly. It made using that tool a true pleasure - no clean up.

While the CT26 works fine, it doesn't seem to have the suction my older dust collectors have. Which makes me wonder if I couldn't have gotten the same level of collection at a fraction of the cost. No matter, it is done, and the CT26 is HEPA a major improvement for sanding I'm sure, and I like the system concept.

I have read the threads on swirl marks sometimes associated with too much vacuum. I have not found a need to dial down the vacuum. I just choose the appropriate grit and everything seems to work fine.

[Jim Dwight]

I don't have a Festool anything. If I buy one, the Domino or the hand sander with vac hookup would be my first. I don't see an alternative from other manufacturers for those two items. But I really like the fact that Festool has made track saws more popular. I have a DeWalt I like very much.

But I don't know enough to say their sanders and vacuums are not worth the money. What I would say is that the noise level of a vacuum doesn't mean much to me when the tool I hook to it makes a lot of noise. Once I put the muffs on who knows what the vacuum is doing? I would say that a HEPA filter AND a cyclone - dust deputy - are more important than the vacuum itself. You want the cyclone to avoid buying a bunch of bags and emptying them regularly. You want a HEPA so it isn't just blowing the fine stuff out for you to breath. I put a HEPA and dd on my old Rigid and I am satisfied at least for now. I use DeWalt ROS (5 inch and 6 inch) and I may not get all the dust but I only use them in the shop and it seems to get the dust. My projects get sanded, in any event.

[Chris Padilla]

I have the first/original Rotex and and an ETS/3. I think I use the /3 for 95% of my sanding. It might be a finishing sander but I use 24 grit all the way up to 600s with it.

I still remember the first time using the sander with the vacuum. No sawdust. It was like I wasn't sanding at all yet the wood was clearly getting smoother.

The only green Kool-aid I haven't imbibed upon are the routers and the Kapex. I pretty much have everything else. Dust collection is king for Festool and where they excel but they are tough tools. I can't tell you how many times I've dropped them and it doesn't seem to faze them in the least. I've had zero problems with any of my Festools and some have been running 10+ years now. Heck, I even have a CT-10 vacuum! Yeah, they haven't made that one in a long, long time. It is still running like a champ.

[Jim Becker]

I used to use other "popular name brand" ROS sanders...and my hands were constantly numb; so much so that I started using gel-filled fingerless gloves to try and mitigate things. That changed when I bought my Festool sanders (150/3 and Rotex 150). I can sand for hours and get a great finish. I will admit that I've ended up with a lot of Festool tools in my arsenal and while "initially expensive", they've outlasted and outperformed anything else I've owned. That makes them less costly in my book. For me, it's not about the "coolaid"; rather, it's about what the products have done for my work condition and work quality, both in my shop and more importantly, in my home. No mess home improvements are a really nice thing!

[Martin Wasner]

I run a pro shop, with 4 employees. I have used all manner of air and electric sanders over the years- Dynabrade,Hutchinson, National Detroit, Dewalt, Porter Cable, etc... Etc.....
I now own 3 Festool CT 36 collectors, and 2 of the Rotex 6" machines, and just recently invested in the ETS/EC DC sander. I have used the Rotex's for about 8-10 years as the only sanders in the shop. They perform flawlessly, though are not ergonomically the best- a bit bulky for in cabinet work.
The newest one- the ETS DC powered unit is incredibly powerful- deceptively so at only around 3.5 amps I think. You really can't slow it down without sitting on it. And it is quieter than the vac itself!
Anyway, I consider them money very well spent, and I will never, ever go back to a non- vacuum style sander!!
There were times when you would be working in a cloud in the shop! It is now just about spotless, and everyone's lungs and eyes are happy.


Have you considered getting a down draft table? We have a Denray 4'x6' table, and it flows 3900 cfm. It's honestly one of the better purchases I ever made for the shop, and I didn't think I'd ever say that about something that produces nothing. Money very well spent. We started sanding face frames prior to putting them on the box even. You still have to touch them up once on the box, but not much.

Cleaning the filters if you've been lazy about emptying the bin is pretty much a Greek tragedy though

[Martin Wasner]

I just hate the idea of dragging a vacuum hose around

[peter gagliardi]

I did, years ago, wanted one in the worst way. But we were very space restricted before moving to the new place, the jobs we have, and the way we build didn't suit the investment. Not sure I could get used to a "sanding station" per se, and the fact that in order to work, everything needs to be on the table. We sand all manner of cabinets and associated parts, Windows, doors, stairs and stair parts, moldings and Millwork. Work is just too varied.
Not to mention all the onsite work we do with stairs etc...
I actually bought my first Festool Rotex and vac for an onsite custom stair and floor install toothed into the existing floor.
It was a revelation!
Homeowner was thrilled that I sanded and finished everything, and she didn't have to empty all cabs and wash all the dusty dishes like when the floors were resanded and finished 2 months prior to them deciding on a new basement staircase off the kitchen.
I probably have the room now, but the question is why?

[Martin Wasner]

I probably have the room now, but the question is why?

It also acts as a giant air cleaner. Even with a medium sized one like mine, if you've got 10k sq/ft with a 16' lid your rolling the air 1½ times per hour, never mind what the dust collection is doing. In my tiny shop it ends up being six times an hour.

To each their own, but I'm dreading the idea of when I expand and having to possibly put a vacuum on the benches for those sanders.

[peter gagliardi]

I understand. But, with dust collection on every major tool, and the vac on the smaller tools, my shop is pretty darn near what I consider dust free. Over the course of 1 year, on undisturbed level surfaces, the dust that settles out and on them is equivalent to only about 1/32" thick at most. Prior to good collection it was easily an 1/8" per month.
Everybody develops their processes around their budgets and job patterns. No one way is correct- this just works well for me.
I could see an improvement for hand sanding, but that's a tough one.