For those that make tables and don't have a drum sander, what is your technique

[Scott Brandstetter]

I have a 16 - 32 drum sander and it works good....i do a final sanding with my orbital sander. For those that don't have a wide belt or drum sander, just wonder what your process is. I seem to never be able to join multiple boards well enough without a little raise in some of the edges that causes major sanding. I finally got the 16-32 to minimize all of the sanding and now thinking about a larger dual drum closed sander so I don't have to make adjustments that are needed for something larger than 16 inches. I would love to go straight to a wide belt but cannot afford it.

[Mike Schuch]

I use a lot of dowels that I drill with my horizontal boring machine. The dowels keep the boards aligned and the horizontal boring machine makes drilling dowel holes fast so I don't mind using a lot of them. The horizontal boring machine also keeps the dowels at a constant height. After scraping any squeeze out I start sanding with 80grit on my right angle 6" random orbit sander. After a few grits with the random orbit sander I switch to my Porter Cable 505 half sheet sanders.

The dowels do a pretty good job of keeping the boards aligned and cleats keeps the whole glueup flat.

[mreza Salav]

If you use a precise doweling jig (like Jessem) the joint come out absolutely flush, maybe a few strokes of hand sand and done.

[Andrew Hughes]

I use my Lie nielson Foreplane and then a smoother plane.I don't even remember the last time I bought sand paper.I also have machines to get the wood prepared for a hassle free glue up. No sticks ,biskets or dowles needed.

[pat warner]

Careful but not crazy QC. Joint, plane, & joint the edges after the rip.
Then use T&G, splines or glue joints for registration.
Always hand sanded , no need for re-thicknessing or power sanding.

[Frank Drackman]

I spend a lot of time on the prep and dry fitting. If I have more than two boards to glue up I only do one joint at a time. This allows me to take my time to make sure that everything is flat as possible. When I started using this method it greatly reduced the final flattening step.

[Stan Calow]

Like Andrew, I use a foreplane. First time I tried it, I was amazed how easy it was to flatten a top. Much easier than a belt sander.

[glenn bradley]

I agree with Pat and use a similar method. Splines or T&G for alignment can help but, careful stock prep and assembly should get you within a card scraper of done. If alignment is proving really difficult I would:
- double check your stock prep, are things flat and square?
- glue up in sections instead of trying to align everything at once
- fall back on an alignment joint, spline is my preferred but, dowels or T&G will do. Biscuits only help with rough alignment and you want something pretty darn close.
- Use cauls across the grain for 30 minutes and clean up squeeze out with a chisel or scraper once skinned over. My least preferred because it can lead to finishing issues.
Of all these things, better stock prep, greater care and gluing up in sections would be my preferred method.

[Joe Cowan]

I use a Domino to keep the edges together and rarely use my drum sander anymore for panels.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Scott, I line up the boards by hand when gluing, and then use a cabinet scraper for leveling, although there's almost none required.

I've certainly not needed a drum sander for any of my panels or table tops............Rod.

[Scott Brandstetter]

Thanks everyone. I think my problem in the past is that I used bisquits and they aren't accurate enough. I own the Jessem Dowel Jig so I think I'm going to give that a try along with not gluing up 4 boards at once. Will glue up two at a time and then one final glue up. I think I'm also going to combine the process with a Festool Sander and dust collector (another thread by me)

Really appreciate the input, hope to help you all at some point.

[Rod Sheridan]

Scott, why are you using any mechanical alignment devices instead of simply gluing the boards together?

Regards, Rod.

[David Eisenhauer]

As said above: thickness plane to a consistent thickness for all materials, joint the edges, use cauls to help achieve "flatness" during glue up and a scraper (the simplest of all hand tools) over the individual board joints after the glues skins over does the trick for me. I don't use biscuits, dowels, domino, etc, as the cauls do the trick if I insist on using slightly bowed material. We all use that material due to it costs too much to buy plenty more to avoid using it. I do stay away from serious bowing though. In my opinion, the use of cauls when gluing up a wide, flat surface is one of the very best practices to embrace and, perhaps, generally not employed enough by the typical woodworker.

[Erik Christensen]

I have used both biscuits & dominos in the past and have decided it is unnecessary work. Joint edges till they are perfect, have some solid FLAT cauls (I make mine from 3 pieces of 3/4" ply scrap in a vacuum bag then rip/joint to a flat edge), plenty of PVA glue, loosely clamp flat with cauls top/bottom, clamp together tightly (don't worry about squeeze out) then tighten clamps on cauls.

leave for at least an hour - cleanup squeeze out with scraper/plane - same for any edge irregularities - have yet to have a glue failure or unfix-able joint with this process

[Ian Moone]

Door sander/stroke sander.

http://g03.s.alicdn.com/kf/HT1RFxdFSRfXXagOFbXD/202352378/HT1RFxdFSRfXXagOFbXD.jpg

Using one tales a little learning effectively you have to be able to do 2 different tings at once - (pat your head while rubbing your tummy).

Once mastered it's easy peasy.

Finnish off with random orbit sander.

[Jesse Busenitz]

I use my friend's wide belt until I get my own.... Ain't nothing going to get it as flat as a WB but that's just my two cents.

[roger wiegand]

Knock down the high spots with a plane than ROS to finish. (Still learning to plane to a finished surface) I have a drum sander, but a plane is much faster and easier. Getting rid of the sanding marks from a drum or wide belt sander takes forever, and I always miss a few. (Though I note that in most commercial furniture they just don't bother and seem to be able to sell it anyway, albeit not to me)

[pat warner]

"Getting rid of the sanding marks from a drum or wide belt sander." ...................
Totally factual.

[John TenEyck]

Yes, but nothing gets a panel as flat as quickly as drum or, better yet, a wide belt sander. I read with near awe all those who can glue up panels and only have to hand sand afterwards. Really? A table top? Seriously? Never gonna happen for me. I love my drum sander because I'm just not that good and don't see the need to anguish over absolutely precise glue ups when the drum sander can bring it flat and true with little effort. Having said that I just had a 46" wide x 60" L live edge slab that I glued up from 3 pieces. At nearly 2" think the thing weighs well over 100 lbs. It was too wide for my 18x36 drum sander and too heavy to haul up out of basement shop to a wide belt sander then back down again to finish. So I glued it up as carefully as I could which still gave me a couple of spots on both sides with a mismatch of around 1/16". I flattened it with a #5 Jack plane. That's the longest plane I own so that's what I used. It took about 2 hours to get it flat and true. I only got the bottom flat, not pretty, but the top I got as perfect as I'm capable of. That means it looks flat and smooth, but it's still not as flat as what I get from my drum sander. And there were a few areas where the tear out was deep enough that it took me at least another hour with my ROS to get them mostly out while keeping the top flat.

Flattening can be done with hand planes but for me nothing beats a drum/wide belt sander for a flat and defect free surface.

John

[Dave Cullen]

Jointing and thickness planing, glue up with cauls. Fore plane then ROS. Works for me.

[Phil Stone]

Yes, but nothing gets a panel as flat as quickly as drum or, better yet, a wide belt sander. I read with near awe all those who can glue up panels and only have to hand sand afterwards. Really? A table top? Seriously? Never gonna happen for me. I love my drum sander because I'm just not that good and don't see the need to anguish over absolutely precise glue ups when the drum sander can bring it flat and true with little effort. Having said that I just had a 46" wide x 60" L live edge slab that I glued up from 3 pieces. At nearly 2" think the thing weighs well over 100 lbs. It was too wide for my 18x36 drum sander and too heavy to haul up out of basement shop to a wide belt sander then back down again to finish. So I glued it up as carefully as I could which still gave me a couple of spots on both sides with a mismatch of around 1/16". I flattened it with a #5 Jack plane. That's the longest plane I own so that's what I used. It took about 2 hours to get it flat and true. I only got the bottom flat, not pretty, but the top I got as perfect as I'm capable of. That means it looks flat and smooth, but it's still not as flat as what I get from my drum sander. And there were a few areas where the tear out was deep enough that it took me at least another hour with my ROS to get them mostly out while keeping the top flat.

Flattening can be done with hand planes but for me nothing beats a drum/wide belt sander for a flat and defect free surface.

John

And we're only talking two orders of magnitude difference between the cost of the two methods! ;)

[John TenEyck]

And we're only talking two orders of magnitude difference between the cost of the two methods! ;)

I bought my used Delta 18x36 for $500. Many here think any plane short of a Lee Neilsen isn't worth having. I think a new #6 from them costs about $375. Add a #4 and you have another $350. But you're just about correct with the #5 Jack plane I used. I bought it at a flea market for $10. I use the drum sander on nearly every project; the hand plane only when there's no alternative.

John

[Alan Lilly]

Festool Domino here.

[Frederick Skelly]

As others have said, I use a low angle jack plane, followed by a smoothing plane.

[Chris Parks]

I have just finished 32 table tops out of finger jointed 20mm pine panels for a restaurant that required one glue up for each table top and I did not want to use any jigs, dowels, biscuits etc. I found that after letting the glue sit for a few minutes in the lightly clamped joint I could align one end and clamp it then holding the two pieces at the other unclamped end I could move one panel against the other until the middle was aligned and clamped to prevent more movement, then I aligned the end I was working at, all done by just moving one panel against the other. It is important to let the glue go off a bit so it has some stiction and I think most of us are not used to doing that. Every panel came out just about perfect and at the most a few swipes from a No. 4 hand plane was all that was needed.

[Ian Moone]

Never had any issues with removing sanding belt marks from the door sander... only if you stick with 80 grit belts and don't change down thru the grades - Id go 80, then 120, then 240 on the door sander, then down thru ROS pads all the way to 1200 grit.

I finished my tables with orange oil and bees wax - which don't really "build" the surface at all the ONLY shine you get is what you create yourself with fine sanding of the hardwood - so any belt scratches would show pretty bad - but it wasn't ever an issue for me. Just pay attention to detail.

I went thru 3 stages of finish over 20 odd years!

Stage 1 was spray polish (varnish) mirotone - high gloss, then to 2 pac catalytic versions of same for harder wearing surfaces.

Stage 2 was pour on Poly self leveling finishes - again deep clear high gloss.

Stage 3 was minimalist approach - Orange oil and bees wax.

There was a reason for this progression.

Stage 1, I marveled at the grain patterns and wanted to display / highlight them as much as possible.

Stage 2, I still marveled at the grain patterns and wanted to flood them with that clear window effect.

Stage 3, took 20 years to get there... and eventually you do get bored after sawing so many boards each year - handling them all by hand off the log into the strip stacks, then into the kiln and out of the kiln, then over the docker saw - jointer, thicknesser etc etc. The novelty wore off I guess BUT there was one other thing swayed me... and that was after we built our furniture show room and displayed all this furniture we built & had the tour busses etc call in for people to walk thru the furniture crafts show room.

I got to WATCH a LOT of people inspect our wares over the years.

And i learned something really valuable.

Deep glossy varnish and poly type finish showcasing the grain patterns REALLY only engages the sense of sight! It's an artificial finish you can't smell it or feel it so your not engaging peoples sense of touch and or smell.
People (women who have had to dust/polish furniture in particular in their life times) were VERY reluctant to touch a dining table with high gloss finish in case they left finger marks - they never bent down and sniffed it.

As soon as I went for Orange oil finish with bees wax and a matt patina, especially with the natural wayne edge tables... people couldn't HELP themselves, they would walk down the length of the table and run their hand along it the whole way - they would lean over and smell the bees wax and orange oil (sometimes I used eucalyptus oil - the oil from the actual tree/timber that the table is made from).

So that finish evoked emotions from people, it engaged 3 of their 5 senses (sight, smell, and touch) it was as if they had "hugged a tree" - they would beam and smile and feel good about themselves and the world in general.

It became the standard I aimed for - if my furniture didn't make people stop, touch, & smell a table, run their hand down the edges... then I had failed in my mission as the furniture maker.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/Chairs2.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/Chairs1.jpg

I get it that its not everyone's cup of tea..... but it's where i ended up after 20 years watching people interact with my furniture.

[Erik Christensen]

Ian - i have gleaned a lot of tips & info off this site over the years and often leave better informed about this vocation and why I like it so much. I have say your post is one of the more profound I have read

thanks man

[Jim Dwight]

biscuits in the joint then ROS. If I lined the boards up well, I may start with 100 grit. But 60 is sometimes required. I've used hand held belt sanders for this too but I usually just use a ROS now. They are about as fast and the hook and loop discs never seem to go bad - and sanding belts do.

[Robert Engel]

Don't sand to try to achieve flatness. Think of all that time, all that paper, and all that dust...... = :mad:
Cutting the fibers leaves a better surface than sanding, which shreds. = Handplaning

Unless you are limited physically, maybe then its the only way.

First with a #6, then a #4 followed by a scraper = much better finish.

And don't try to achieve perfection in the glue up = forget the biscuits, the dowels, the dominoes, whatever.
Glue it up thick and hand plane it down to perfection.

The only sanding you should need to do is final touch up on edges.

[Jon Grider]

Hi Scott, I line up the boards by hand when gluing, and then use a cabinet scraper for leveling, although there's almost none required.

I've certainly not needed a drum sander for any of my panels or table tops............Rod.
This. And a little care when aligning the boards.

[Ian Moone]

Your very welcome Erik

[Mike Schuch]

I read with near awe all those who can glue up panels and only have to hand sand afterwards. Really? A table top? Seriously? Never gonna happen for me.

John

If I could afford a wide sander I would love to have one! It doesn't take many glue ups to figure out the more prep work you put in before a glue up and the more careful you are during the glue up the less work you have after the glue up. You have to make due with what you have and I don't have a wide sander so I use a lot of dowels and culls to glue as flat a panel as Ican so I have the least amount of work to do after the glue dries.

[Brian Holcombe]

Jack plane plane, try plane, then finish plane.

Unless the top is book matched you would do well to align the grain so that it is going in the same direction, that way if you decide to hand plane it, it will make life much easier.

I like wooden planes for cutting panels, they can take a wide pass without the incredible friction of super flat soles. Previously I used my LN #7 plane, but when that panel/table starts to get very flat it is a bear to push.

Camber your plane blades, the 5 should be a heavy camber, try plane should be a light camber and the finish plane should be a whisper of camber. I also round the corners and sharpen them so that you do not see tracks in the finish.

I keep a straight edge nearby when planing panels, it makes life much easier to see the highs. I have seen people say that a table need not be flat....it makes life much easier to have a table that is flat and without wind if you are planing to a finish.

This is planed and does not have a finish on it, that is right off the #4 plane.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/81344FE2-8C07-4DF8-B017-5598E5EA5526_zps3p10q9fm.jpg