1985 Craftsman Radial Arm Saw

[Kent Adams]

Does anyone have an opinion on the quality of these saws? There is one for sale near me that appears to look decent from the pictures and is only selling for $150. I was thinking of getting a RAS for dedicated dado cutting. Hobbyist, not professional here.

[Bill Space]

Hi,

You don't mention specifics like blade size. I would guess it is a 10 inch since that seems to be the most common that I see on craigslist. I will tell you in the last couple years I bought two of these 10 inch Craftsman radial arm saws. One was in pristine condition and had the manufacture supplied safety guard on the blade. I paid $75 for this one.

The second one was in good condition but did not have the safety guard installed. That guard for the blade is provided free (including shipping) by Emerson, who is original manufacture of the Saw, if I remember correctly. It comes with a new saw table as well. Anyway, if you do buy a radial arm Saw made by craftsman, or I should say labeled by craftsman, you can call and get a free safety upgrade kit That gives you a rather nice guard that covers the blade. I paid $60 for this second saw which included some other items that weren't related to the saw, like torch tips for a cutting torch, for reasons unknown to me.

Prices vary by area. I live in the greater Pittsburgh area and see radial arm saws by craftsman advertised for $175, but I'm not sure if they sell. I see a lot more advertised for around $100 or less. My experience is that $100 or less in this area is probably the right price for a craftsman 10 inch radial arm saw. Where you live may be different…

Bill

[Kent Adams]

Hi Bill. Yes, its a 10" blade. Below are some pictures. It appears to be in good shape, I'm just unsure of the quality of these things for accurate cuts.

[Matt Day]

Pass. $50 maybe. Instead keep a look out for older dewalts or deltas.

[Roy Turbett]

I had a 1979 Craftsman RAS and gave it to a friend because I couldn't get it to consistently return to 90 degrees. It was also the subject of a recall (as is the saw you are considering). I received a new table and guard for the saw before I gave it away. Another friend gave me his Craftsman saw to make room in the garage for his new bride's car. It was also included in the recall but was too old for a retro fit. I returned the motor in a free shipping container that Sears send and received a check for $100. Also, the saw pictured above is not a 2 3/4 HP motor. Sears used "developed HP" to rate their motors. Problem is, no one knows what the term means and they were forced to stop using it because it is misleading.

I currently have a 1957 DeWalt GWI 10-12" RAS that is extremely accurate. But I had to do a full restoration that included refurbishing the carriage bearings, replacing the motor bearings, cleaning, painting, and building a new table. All told, I have about $250 in the saw.

[Kent Adams]

Ok, what about a new Dayton? It's a $3k RAS that the guy said he purchased because it was damaged freight? I don't have a picture of it yet, but its this model: http://www.zoro.com/dayton-radial-arm-saw-1-hp-115230v-49g998/i/G9173491/

Assuming the damage is cosmetic, he's asking $900 for it.

[Robert Engel]

IMO no to both of them.

Keep checking I would focus on an older model DeWalt or Delta Rockwell.

Any thought to a sliding CMS?

[Kent Adams]

Hi Robert,

Yes, I have one but I'm looking for something with more reach, so to speak. I've got my CMS for sale here in the classifieds, its practically new.

[Matt Day]

Never heard of Dayton (except the audio company), and would never pay that kind of money for a 1hp saw. If you really want a larger crosscut length, or reach as you call it, look at saws listed above 12". My delta 12" with a 10" blade will crosscut 3/4" material a bit over 16". Bigger the saw, bigger the crosscut capacity. These saws can go pretty cheap because 1) they're big size wise 2) likely 3ph.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

Ok, what about a new Dayton? It's a $3k RAS that the guy said he purchased because it was damaged freight? I don't have a picture of it yet, but its this model: http://www.zoro.com/dayton-radial-arm-saw-1-hp-115230v-49g998/i/G9173491/ Assuming the damage is cosmetic, he's asking $900 for it.
Interesting, it looks like the saw that Woodworkers supply is selling, but way bigger motors than 1 hp
If he's correct about the 1 hp, way too small for a RAS. (Think 1 hp table saw). Dayton used to be an electrical motor, controls, etc company. My suspicion is that it's now yet another Chinese manufacturing company judging from the saw.
Even e original was never known for power tools, just motors, etc.

[Mike Schuch]

My first stationary power tool was a Craftsman RAS of that vintage. After I figured out how to properly align the saw it was usable but I sold it as soon as I found a 12" Dewalt. I kept the Dewalt for about a year and a half then sold it when I found a 16" Redstar (predecessor of Delta Rockwell turret arm RAS). I have been using the Redstar for over 20 years now and still smile every time I power it up.

I agree with the others... $50 max for a Craftsman.

I love my 16" Redstar but be aware that any RAS 12" and above will most likely have a 1" arbor and dado sets for 1" arbors are pretty pricey! I have a 12" dado set that I paid $120 used off of ebay and think I scored the deal of the century. It only took me about 3 years to find a 12" dado set at a price I could afford. There are also some old mid sized RAS's with 3/4" arbors. Dado sets for a 3/4" arbor are a special order item.. ouch$$$! My 5hp Walker Turner geared head RAS has a 3/4" shaft. But I only paid $50 for it and I use it to cut metal with an abrasive blade.

I cut a lot of dado's on my Redstar RAS but there is a very big difference in cutting dados on a RAS then cutting dados on a table saw. On a RAS when cutting repeat dados on multiple pieces of stock the RAS will leave a constant thickness of material under the dado. A table saw will cut dados of a constant depth. I.e. I was cutting some dados in multiple 2x4's. Because the 2x4's were different thicknesses the dados were different depths. If I had cut them on a table saw the dados would have been all the same depth. For fine woodworking stock is usually planed to a uniform thickness so this difference is negated... it doesn't matter.

[Rick Potter]

That Dayton saw looks a lot like a couple of Italian brands. You might ask the owner where it is made.

My DeWalt 7790 12" has a 5/8 arbor, as did my 80's Delta 12". They did that so dado sets would fit. I use 1" blades on mine with a blade washer available everywhere.

I get a 16 1/2" crosscut with my 7790, which I highly recommend.



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[Terry Beadle]

I've got a Craftsman RAS from the mid-70's and it's given me good service and still does. IMO, the saw you gave pictures of is worth $100 and the cabinet it's mounted on is
worth about $50 ( on a good day...hoot! ). So $150 is a reasonable price to start from and maybe even finish on .

There's a good video that shows how to tune your RAS for great cuts. " Radial-Arm-Saw Joinery" with Curtis Erpelding. He really has a nice style of teaching and the video
covers how to set the saw up for very accurate cutting. He mainly sets the saw up for cross cuts and he has a jig or two that you can make for tenon cutting and even dove tails.
ISBN 0-918804-35-3

Good Luck !!

[Barry McFadden]

I bought a Craftsman 12" Radial arm saw in the mid 70's as well ..... still runs great... no problems with any setting or returning to 90 degrees...never had to replace any parts on it ... use it every week ...

[David Tolsky]

I love it when guys talk about a tried and true tool that they've been using for 20 years. It convinced me to by my 788 scroll saw used instead of a new cheaper built model. I have a lot of tools in my woodshop... and no RAS. I had a
bad experience with a Craftsman RAS from the mid 80's...of all my tools in the shop it seemed like the most dangerous. Perhaps it's a phobia, call it what
you will, but I constantly got kickback from it and it became no longer desireable. Since not having one, I haven't missed it either and can usually accomplish similar cuts on my table saw or CMS. I think it's just a "me thing" ��

[David Winer]

Does anyone have an opinion on the quality of these saws? There is one for sale near me that appears to look decent from the pictures and is only selling for $150. I was thinking of getting a RAS for dedicated dado cutting. Hobbyist, not professional here.

I should weigh in on this subject. I bought a 12 inch Craftsman RAS in early 70s as the primary tool in my shop (others were Powermatic jointer and planer so I could make furniture). The 12 inch saw was my workhorse for years and years so I shouldn't complain, and I'm not. However, it's well known these machines can be tuned into very good alignment but are prone to drift off and need re-setting after moderate use. This is in my opinion a drawback but not a game changer for a typical home woodworker. I did manage to make some excellent furniture with the aforementioned machines and used the saw for hundreds of projects for years and years.

Sam Maloof once looked at my shop when he was in the area for a short course. He revealed the general disdain for RAS when he said of my proudly displayed Craftsman 12 inch, "I see you have a cut-off saw." It was then I realized that life would not be complete until I got a table saw too!

I recently gave the Craftsman to my neighbor, not because it had outlived its usefulness, but because I found a far better RAS at a remarkable price (an event gloat here on the Creek). This find was a 14 inch Delta turret model that has a phenomenal reputation for overall quality and for holding alignment. I rejoice in using this bigger, better machine, but still have good feelings about my old Craftsman RAS which served so well.

In the 70s Sears marketed their RAS as a do-everything power tool. I bought into that philosophy, and acquired and used many of their accessories. Obviously single purpose machines would have been better but still I managed to get some things done with the RAS. I had never heard of blade hook angle and tendency to climb-cut and quickly developed a self-taught method to maintain a ready push force while pulling the blade through cross cuts. Never a problem. I also extensively ripped using the saw's excellent built-in splitter system as described in the users manual.

My advise is to buy a better saw if you can find one but not to shy away from a good-condition old Craftsman.

[Kent Adams]

Thanks David.

[Roy Turbett]

Interesting, it looks like the saw that Woodworkers supply is selling, but way bigger motors than 1 hp
If he's correct about the 1 hp, way too small for a RAS.

There are a lot of guys at the OWWM and Delphi DeWalt RAS forums that use RAS' for homeowner/hobby use with motors smaller than 1 hp with satisfactory results but these usually take 8-9" blades. The first homeowner saw that DeWalt marketed for the homeowner in the 50's is the MBC that has a 1/2 hp motor. Next up was the MBF that has a 3/4 hp motor. Both of these saws are very well made cast iron saws that are virtually identical in design to the much larger commercial duty saws DeWalt sold. They are also very accurate. The 1 1/2 hp DeWalt GWI is considered by many to be one of the best RAS' ever built because it was small enough for two guys to move to a job site, large enough to cut rafters, accurate for trim work, and can easily be switched between 110/220 v. The Delta Multiplex turret design saws are also very accurate but the added weight of their cast iron base makes them more difficult to move to a job site. They are an excellent choice for a cabinet maker.

[Mike Schuch]

I love it when guys talk about a tried and true tool that they've been using for 20 years. It convinced me to by my 788 scroll saw used instead of a new cheaper built model. I have a lot of tools in my woodshop... and no RAS. I had a
bad experience with a Craftsman RAS from the mid 80's...of all my tools in the shop it seemed like the most dangerous. Perhaps it's a phobia, call it what
you will, but I constantly got kickback from it and it became no longer desireable. Since not having one, I haven't missed it either and can usually accomplish similar cuts on my table saw or CMS. I think it's just a "me thing" ��

You really need to know how to use a radial arm saw properly and tune it so it works as designed. My father taught my these things while working in the garage with him when I was young. My radial arm saw would be the last tool in my shop to go BUT I don't believe a radial arm saw is a great tool for every woodworker.

[Paul Wunder]

I owned a 1970's Craftsman RAS and built an entire kitchen with it (along with other furniture). Dozens upon dozens of dados and rabbets. Excellent results. If dados is your only purpose it will serve you well and the one that you are looking at has a nice cabinet which has value and is quite large. Yes, others have given contrary opinions on quality and price, but a deal "in hand" may be worth to you than chasing a $50 lower price in the future. The negatives as others have pointed out is that the saw will require frequent adjusting (a complex process) if used back and forth between crosscut and rip positions. Further, dust control on RAW saws is problematic.

[Jim Davenport]

I'd pass on that saw. Notice that it has a single yoke support for the motor. Not rigid enough. I would go with the recommendations on either an old Dewalt, or Delta. I have a 1956 vintage Dewalt MBF. It's a little under powered, but it's my favorite tool. It get used the most in my shop.

[Jim Andrew]

I had a craftsman ras I bought in about 76. It was 10". Used it enough to have to replace the rails on the arm. Was never all that impressed with it, but I liked how you could flip the switch on with your thumb while your hand was on the handle. When I saw the offer to buy it back for 100 I sent the carriage in.

[Floyd Mah]

Buy the RAS for cutting long pieces of lumber into smaller pieces. Don't use it for dadoes unless you are willing to accept variable depths of cut. A Craftsman RAS will only give at most a 12" long dado. The saw is a weight on a long arm, which may, and will, flex if you vary the pressure on the arm when using it. I have a Craftsman RAS and, like another person here, I bought it around 1980's hoping to make some furniture. It's not sufficiently accurate for this task. It is downright dangerous when ripping. Use a table saw or router to make dadoes. If your space is limited, get a MFT. For a smaller footprint and to cut lumber, get a compound miter saw.

I did use the arm once to suspend a router and create an overhead pin router, but otherwise, it takes up more space than it offers usefulness.

[Barry McFadden]

Buy the RAS for cutting long pieces of lumber into smaller pieces. Don't use it for dadoes unless you are willing to accept variable depths of cut. A Craftsman RAS will only give at most a 12" long dado. The saw is a weight on a long arm, which may, and will, flex if you vary the pressure on the arm when using it. I have a Craftsman RAS and, like another person here, I bought it around 1980's hoping to make some furniture. It's not sufficiently accurate for this task. It is downright dangerous when ripping. Use a table saw or router to make dadoes. If your space is limited, get a MFT. For a smaller footprint and to cut lumber, get a compound miter saw.

I did use the arm once to suspend a router and create an overhead pin router, but otherwise, it takes up more space than it offers usefulness.

Just my opinion ... but maybe some people just don't know how to use a RAS Craftsman or otherwise... as mentioned , I have had mine since the mid 70's and have had the odd kickback , as you would from any RAS from time to time. Usually my fault! I have switched from crosscutting to ripping constantly and have no problems with accuracy at all. If the fence is placed towards the back of the table you can easily dado up to 16" with a 10" blade. I usually use 10" blades because that is all I require.

[Floyd Mah]

maybe some people just don't know how to use a RAS Craftsman or otherwise

Since the OP asked whether he should buy a RAS, I'm sure that he would be one of those whom you would consider lacking the experience to use it safely. I've attempted to use the RAS to rip lumber and despite understanding and respecting all the things that can go wrong, I realize that one needs only to have the one experience of things going wrong to regret buying a RAS. Each kickback, whether odd or not, is heartstopping in suddenness and potentially maiming. I've seen several people post their thoughts here on their disdain for safety devices on table saws and tout their own record of not having sustained a serious injury. Well, good luck to those people who rely on luck. Anyway, in my opinion, not withstanding all those who have positive experiences, only buy a RAS if you want to make long pieces of lumber into shorter pieces.

[Barry McFadden]

Since the OP asked whether he should buy a RAS, I'm sure that he would be one of those whom you would consider lacking the experience to use it safely. I've attempted to use the RAS to rip lumber and despite understanding and respecting all the things that can go wrong, I realize that one needs only to have the one experience of things going wrong to regret buying a RAS. Each kickback, whether odd or not, is heartstopping in suddenness and potentially maiming. I've seen several people post their thoughts here on their disdain for safety devices on table saws and tout their own record of not having sustained a serious injury. Well, good luck to those people who rely on luck. Anyway, in my opinion, not withstanding all those who have positive experiences, only buy a RAS if you want to make long pieces of lumber into shorter pieces.

Sorry...I don't agree....it's like saying if you have ever had a catch on a lathe...which can also be heartstopping and potentially maiming then you should regret buying a lathe....so only buy a lathe if you want to spindle turn 1/4" dia. pine at 200 rpm.

[Dave Lehnert]

Never heard of Dayton (except the audio company), and would never pay that kind of money for a 1hp saw. If you really want a larger crosscut length, or reach as you call it, look at saws listed above 12". My delta 12" with a 10" blade will crosscut 3/4" material a bit over 16". Bigger the saw, bigger the crosscut capacity. These saws can go pretty cheap because 1) they're big size wise 2) likely 3ph.


Dayton is the house brand for Grainger.

[Dave Lehnert]

That Dayton saw looks a lot like a couple of Italian brands. You might ask the owner where it is made.

My DeWalt 7790 12" has a 5/8 arbor, as did my 80's Delta 12". They did that so dado sets would fit. I use 1" blades on mine with a blade washer available everywhere.

I get a 16 1/2" crosscut with my 7790, which I highly recommend.



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Dayton saw is made in Taiwan.
http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Radial-Arm-Saw-49G998

[Art Mann]

Just as a point of reference, I bought a 10 inch craftsman RAS in about 1976 and used it for a long time. I never found it to be accurate enough for furniture building. The arm was just not rigid enough and would not stay calibrated. I sold it a couple of years ago for $75. I bought a Bosch slider and it is quite a bit better but not perfect. For real precision, I still use my table saw with a crosscut sled. About a year ago, I bought a Makita track saw, hoping it would provide table saw like crosscut accuracy for widths greater than 20 inches. I was not disappointed. I don' know where you are right now in your buying decision but you might take a look at one of those as a more versatile alternative.

[Roy Turbett]

I don't buy into the notion that a properly tuned RAS is any more dangerous than a table saw. "Properly tuned" is the operative phrase. When I bought my 60 year old DeWalt GWI, the column wasn't securely attached to the frame, the arm wasn't square to the fence, and the roller bearings were sloppy. So naturally the saw was going to have problems with climbing and kickback. But now that's its properly tuned, I don't think its any more susceptible to kickback than my Sawstop table saw and it does a better job of cutting dados in shelving. A big advantage a table saw has over a RAS is that there are fewer moving parts to get out of alignment.

[Mike Schuch]

Buy the RAS for cutting long pieces of lumber into smaller pieces. Don't use it for dadoes unless you are willing to accept variable depths of cut. A Craftsman RAS will only give at most a 12" long dado. The saw is a weight on a long arm, which may, and will, flex if you vary the pressure on the arm when using it. I have a Craftsman RAS and, like another person here, I bought it around 1980's hoping to make some furniture. It's not sufficiently accurate for this task. It is downright dangerous when ripping. Use a table saw or router to make dadoes. If your space is limited, get a MFT. For a smaller footprint and to cut lumber, get a compound miter saw.

I did use the arm once to suspend a router and create an overhead pin router, but otherwise, it takes up more space than it offers usefulness.

I think you do not understand cutting dados using a table saw vs a RAS. A table will remove a certain depth of wood. A RAS will leave a a certain depth of wood. This actually makes a RAS much more convient for cutting dados in things like bookcases. When you cut dados in a book case you want to have a particular finished width for the bookcase. This is much easier to accomplish when you have a known thickness to the wood underneith the dado. When I set the dado blade on my RAS to 5/8" above the table I have 5/8" of remaining material. If I set the dado blade on my table saw to 5/8" above the table I do not know what thickness of remaining material I have. This is particularly irritating with all the stupid odd thickness plywood they sell these days. On a table saw I would have to use a caliper to measure the thickness of the plywood then set the table saw for some odd fractional height to make a bookcase of a particular width. The RAS is much easier for things like dados in bookcases. Some times a constant depth from a table saw is more convieient. But in my experience the constant remaining thickness from a dado cut on a RAS is usually more convient. The big point is to understand there is a difference when cutting dados on a RAS and a Table saw.

[Floyd Mah]

I think you do not understand cutting dados using a table saw vs a RAS.

I have a clear understanding of how RAS's work. The lovers of RAS's here think that because I don't share their enthusiasm for this tool, that I don't have any experience with using the tool. I have used it over the 24 years: enough to understand the pitfalls of using it. It's a totally great tool for cutting long pieces of wood into shorter lengths. Even properly adjusted, the arm of the RAS will deflect under pressure and can give you variable cuts. Perhaps if you have a commercial grade tool, you don't have this problem, but the original post was about a Craftsman.

As for using the RAS for dadoes, even if you succeed in achieving a consistent depth with the RAS, how is that an advantage for someone cutting plywood from different sources? You are implying that you toss the plywood on the RAS and cut it without measuring it. If you pull out your ruler and do some simple math, one would be perfectly able to adjust for slight variation in plywood thickness that you might find (isn't the rule of thumb to measure at least twice?). Also, if you cut your dadoes using a non-RAS solution, what's to prevent you adjusting your dado (test cut??) or even trimming the shelves (with your RAS). I've worked with wood enough to know that part of your work routine is making adjustments as you go along.

It's convenient to keep implying that I don't know what I am talking about, or lack the experience, but there are many more accurate, and safer, techniques for handling almost all of the cuts that can be made with a RAS, except cutting long lumber into shorter pieces.

[Garth Almgren]

I can tell you, they're worth exactly $100 to the manufacturer: http://rasrecall.com/
If you can buy one for anything less than $100 and send the carriage and motor back to Emerson, you can make a few bucks from the difference plus whatever scrap price you can get for the stand, pillar, and arm.

I've got one of the same vintage, and it's a decent saw once you get it dialed in. For crosscutting at 90° and dados I'll go to the RAS first. I wouldn't pay $150 for one though.

[Warren Lake]

got one before I started and thought it worked because it was all I had. If you are talking about that one specific saw compared to other heavier duty radial arm saws its in the back yard covered under a tarp. Mine was an annoying piece of crap that was even almost useless as a cross cut saw. The thermal overload used to kick out on me and I should taken it apart and removed the overload. I switched to a Skill worm drive to rough cut solid. Few months back could have got a large Omga for 350.00 but was too busy at the time, all it needed was a new table it was in very good shape with little use. Should have found the time I suppose.