Cutting box lids with hand tools?

[Paul Erickson]

I know about the various techniques for cutting box lids using table saws and band saws, but was wondering if anyone knew of any good methods using hand tools. Any suggestions/tips would be appreciated.

cheers, Paul

[Steve Wargo]

I've done it in the past once or twice. The way I did it was to mark your line all around. Then make cuts with a large rip backsaw at all four corners. Once you've gone a good 3/4" into each corner simply connect the kerfs created in the corners. I used a backsaw and it worked well, but is slow on the long cuts. Also this will be easier if the boxes are smaller. Mine were small decorative boxes no more than 11" long and 8" wide. Hope this helps.

[Jim Young]

I was thinking a back saw too. Good tip on using a rip saw, Steve.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Paul,

More specifically, what is it you are wanting to do? Raised panels? The grooves for the panels? Just cut to size, or ???

Mike

[Paul Erickson]

Hi Mike,

I am looking to make some relatively small boxes, and am looking to develope an accurate way of cutting the lids, without benefit of a tablesaw or bandsaw. I have an idea for a jig to help hold the saw in place, sort of like a horizontal miter saw, but wanted to hear from others more experienced than I who may have developed techniques I haven't thought of.

cheers, Paul

[Chris Barton]

Another consideration would be to use a frame saw. This would produce a very narrow kerf like a bandsaw but, would be less expensive. You can make a frame saw out of scrap and just buy the blade...

[Jim Becker]

Adding to this, making a quick jig with scraps to help guide the saw "true" would be something I'd want to try if cutting with a hand-powered saw. I would not trust a box-top to my "guiding eye"... ;)

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Paul,

I apologize for my being still a bit thick about what you are wanting. So I'll make some general assumptions.

For resawing a plank (no matter its length or thickness) I have used Chris' suggestion, a frame saw. I haven't tried doing this horizontally, but then I haven't really tough of how and it sounds like you have. Vertically (held in an end vice), I have used a panel gauge to scribe around both long sides and the one end pointing up.

Due to vibration, I found it helpful to start out with the plank's end not far above the bench and as the saw progressing down the plank, to reposition the plank higher. As you are doing smaller pieces, this may not be too much an issue.

Once the piece has been resawn it is a simple matter to clean up the sawn surfaces using a plane or two. It is important to fully support the full piece on the benchtop as the thinner a piece, the more it will flex and will be difficult to flatten.

If doing veneer, cut as thin as possible while maintaining control of the saw. The thinner you try to cut, the saw will try to pull out to the veneer side. Do any flattening after it has been glued to a cross-banded core (or, if small enough, to a solid wood panel).

The starting point for either of the operations above would be to plane smooth both faces (for the resawn piece) or a single face and then between cuts (as in the veneer). This ensures you will have one flat face at all times for subsequent operations.

For initial cutting, use a bench hook. For squaring or correcting miters, bevels, etc., make and use shooting boards, miter jacks, etc.

I hope this is helpful--but if not, please just let me know how to more accurately help.

Mike

[Paul Erickson]

Hi Mike,

Sorry for not being clear. My intent is to make the box, by joining the sides, top and bottom, and then cutting the lid off as I understand may box builders do. Often they use a table saw or band saw for this, but as my present situation will not allow for the use of power tools like this, plus the fact that I am wanting as much as possible to do my woodwork without electrons, I am wanting to find a way of accurately cutting the lid off.

I like the idea of a frame saw, and having a vertical guide for the blade makes good sense.

I was originally thinking of doing it with a Dozuki saw because of the narrow kerf, and was trying to think of a jig idea to do this horizontally, but as I think on it, perhaps doing it vertically would be better.

Am I making any better sense?

Thanks for your patience.

[Glenn Crocker]

I have cut the lid from a box glue-up by starting the cut with a scoring tool I made. This tool has an adjustable fence and a cutter at the end of the stem. (very similar to a marking gauge or scratch stock) The cutter was made from a hardened concrete nail and sharpened to make about a 1/8 kerf and about 1/4" deep.

Set the cutter to a shallow cut and score around the entire box. Advance the cutter a little before each new pass. After scoring to the full depth of the cutter, switch to a back saw to finish the cut and clean up with a block plane.

[Paul Erickson]

Very interesting idea. Would you be able to post a picture?

cheers, Paul

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Glenn,

Slitting, good idea.

Paul, a good combination of the two, using a slitting gauge around the box to produce a consistent groove around the box could also be used wonderfully as a starting kerf for a handsaw and as a good visual to ensure you are cutting straight.

Personally, I would use Glenn's idea of the slitting gauge combined with just one of my good Disston handsaws. I would use the traditional saw instead of one of my Japanese saws for the stiffer blade.

Mike

[Dan Clermont in Burnaby]

I use a Stanley 45 with the slitter followed by a saw and then chisel.

It works extremely well although you have to be careful with the 45 and the end of your box as the majority of the fence is not registered on the side of the box anymore

Dan Clermont

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Dan, I was going to mention my 55, but though not many people would want to spend the cash for a 45/55 just for the slitter. I have used a homemade slitter though, and that works.

But, as I have done a bunch of moldings with the 55, and I found you can make a new wood portion of the fence and it helps a lot. Only needs to be about 4" longer to really help.

Mike

[Glenn Crocker]

Paul,
I'll try to get a pic online this weekend.
Glenn

[Glenn Crocker]

Paul, my photo skills aren't the best in the world but these should get the idea across. Padouk is so dark that the details show better as a negative view.
Glenn

[Paul Erickson]

Excellent, thanks very much.

cheers, Paul