New to woodworking... sorta.

[Donnie Harkins]

Hi there... I am sort of new to woodworking, i've built a lot of stuff in the past for work and home, mainly speaker boxes, aquarium stands and construction type projects. I am shifting towards more furniture grade oriented projects now, or at least that's my goal.

right now i am wondering what you more experienced guys would say the most important shop tools are. i have a decent tablesaw, compound miter saw, scroll saw. i also have a porter cable router for hand held work and a 3-1/4 hp triton for table work. my current router table is small and lacking some of features that i would like, but a new table is in the works.

i am thinking about my next purchase because i am getting close to part of a big home project that will require some face frames, and i am planning on making some raised panel doors. to this end, i am thinking my next purchase should be a planer, however i also see the need for a jointer. any insight would be a tremendous help.

-donnie.

[Michael Moscicki]

You joint first to get a flat face and then plane the other face to make it parellel to the jointed face. Once both faces are parallel, then you can plane it to your desired thickness removing equal amounts from each face. You also joint an edge on the jointer which will be used against your table saw fence to rip to width.

You could get a combo machine (jointer and planer in the same machine) if space is limited. You could also by S4S lumber or have the yard do the milling for you. After you have a jointer and planer, I would consider a drill press and band saw.

I am still a novice, so maybe some experts can chime in and either correct me or add more valuable knowledge.

[Prashun Patel]

I got a planer before a jointer. I believe you will need both. A planer and table saw can sometimes be jigged out to do the job of a jointer. But a jointer can't be jigged to do a planers job well.

Ultimately you will probably want both.

But personally I would go in this order:

Planer
Bandsaw
Jointer

Craigslist is your friend.

[Larry Frank]

Prashun has a great list. For face frames, having the material the exact same thickness is very important and the planer would be a great help.

[John Sanford]

I would make your next purchase a good block plane and sharpening setup. Invaluable for shaving "just a smidge". As far as the planer vs jointer question, you can do both with a combo machine. Of course, if circumstances demand keeping costs down, then a 6" jointer and lunchbox planer can be had. Upshot though is the two really are a pair. If up front cost is realllllly a limiting factor, and you need to do the face frames, you can almost certainly buy S4S face frame stock from your local lumberyard, possibly even your local big box store. In between is the option of a good handplane (#5) for jointing the face frame as well as panels if needed, and then get a lunchbox for planer.

Lotsa ways to skin the cat, just depends on how you want to deploy your temporal and monetary resources.

[Bill Adamsen]

I know this goes against the common thought, but I think I'd want the jointer first. Reason being, that I could joint the stock to get a reference face (or two adjoining square faces) then thickness the material with a Tablesaw or Bandsaw. Facing the opposite sides could either be omitted, or they could be faced with a handplane (or even jointer). But without a jointer it is pretty hard to get that first reference face. In fact, I had this exact situation the other day. I couldn't get to the planer (long story) but the jointer and bandsaw were available and I was able to thickness just fine after sawing the stock. Obviously a planer would have made it easier.

Another example ... just spoke to a friend who built four pair of large (ten foot by four) french door pairs with a rough finish on one side and full mortise and tenons. One of the challenges was mating up the M&T using only the machined side for reference. So in other words, even if the thickness is off, as long as there is a reference face, complex joinery can be done.

I also think you can't have too big of a jointer. I have a 16" and am constantly wishing I had a 20", 24" or even 30".

[Scott Brandstetter]

Donnie
Welcome to the world of woodworking, always more questions and tool needs than the mind can think of and the wallet can afford (at least for most of us). First thing I recommend is start the search on craigslist before buying anything new. Great deals are out there and sometimes it takes a while to find the exact tool you are looking for.

With that said, I started darn near 30 years ago in a one car garage with no more than a few cheap tools. I built a bedroom set that is still used in my home (proud of that). Like most, I have expanded and upgraded since those days to better tools, more specialty stores, and higher quality tools. With what you have said your future, current needs are (face framed cabinets) I would suggest a jointer, planer, and router table. Again, I go back to craigslist. Starting with a 6 inch jointer and a box planer should be easy to find. I would then look online for plans for a diy router table.

As you grow into woodworking, if you buy quality tools upfront, you will find that upgrading to larger, more powerful tools, is a bit easier. An example from my own experience over the last 5 years is that I bought a 6 inch powermatic jointer for $600 and sold it for $550 2 years later and purchased an 8 inch grizzly jointer for $900. I am now looking to sell my 8 inch jointer to get into a 12 inch jointer. I have done the same with my table saw, planer, band saw, etc. Every one of us can make any tool work for our current needs and at some point it becomes a matter of convenience to go bigger, wider, or more power.

Good luck with your decisions, and keep us posted.

[Robert Engel]

You will get varying answers because of different philosophies about ww'ing, for example hand tools vs. power tools vs. hybrid.

I, like many ww'ers fall in the hybrid category. I have all the requisite power machines, but only when I turned toward hand tools did I realize my ww'ing went to another level of accuracy and finish. Gone are the days of fiddling and tweaking cuts so they are dead on right off the saw. Of turning to the router for every little rabbet or dado. Now I use machines to get it close and handtools to refine things to perfect fits. No noise, ear muffs, glasses, dust collection. It's really quite therapeutic.

So, IMO regardless of what kind of ww'ing you do, you need hand tools: quality measuring and marking tools (rulers, combo squares, marking knife, marking gauges), hand saws (tenon, Xcut and dovetail), a minimal set of handplanes (low angle block, #4), a good set of sharpening stones, and a good workbench with good vises.

But you probably need a jointer and planer first especially if you're starting with rough stock.

[Mike Cutler]

I got a planer before a jointer. I believe you will need both. A planer and table saw can sometimes be jigged out to do the job of a jointer. But a jointer can't be jigged to do a planers job well.

Ultimately you will probably want both.

But personally I would go in this order:

Planer
Bandsaw
Jointer

Craigslist is your friend.

My order would change, but Prashun Patel has it right.
If you're going to mill your own lumber from rough stock. You need these three machines to efficiently, effectively, and safely,mill your own lumber.
The more you can control your material selection, the better the overall appearance of a project will be. I typically like to start with 8/4-12/4 rough material and make the stock I need from large planks. This way I have more control over grain appearance and wood tone.

[Lee Schierer]

If you are milling your own lumber from rough sawed lumber then I agree with Prashun's list. However, if you are using surfaced lumber then get the jointer first, then the plane. You will need the jointer to edge mill boards you ripped before using them as frames or for glue up.

[glenn bradley]

At this point it sounds like dust collection (which should be one of your first tools) is in order.

[Ken Kortge]

I agree with the dust collection suggestion.

Make sure you have featherboards and good push sticks and push pads for your saw & router table. Save the fingers!! Also some ear & eye protection.

I'd recommend a Kreg Jig setup, especially for face frames.

You don't mention a drill, but that would be on the list. Some cordless drills simply don't have the RPM needed for good pocketholes. For that reason I use a corded drill for drilling the pockets and a cordless driver with a good clutch to put the screws in. That way I don't have to swap out the stepped drill bit and the square driver bit.

A good random orbital sander is very useful. Maybe an oscillating saw for those weird little cuts that won't work with a hand saw ... and they also make great corner sanders. Bosch makes a nice corner sander, but I think the oscillating saw with sanding pads will be more versatile.

I might also suggest a small brad nail gun - and a small air compressor to run it. I'm guessing the skilled joint makers here cringe at the thought of it, but hey.

Also I'm partial to track saws, you might also at the very least consider getting a circular saw and some kind of straight edge (aluminum or plywood) to cut down the sheets of plywood to sizes manageable on the table saw.

Another thought might be a good book or video on how to use SketchUp. More and more people are using it to visualize and ... well ... test their dimensions. I'm no expert in it - actually pretty rough at it, but it has saved me from some incorrect cuts by visually pointing out my math mistakes in my measurement calculations -- when parts simply did not align correctly.

My #1 advice for buying tools is to make sure you save enough money to buy the wood!!

[Donnie Harkins]

thanks for all the input... obviously the list i gave in the first post wasn't my entire compliment of tools. I'm an electrician by trade, and before that i did custom car audio for entirely too long. That said, i have nail guns of all shapes and sizes, electric and pneumatic sanders, corded and cordless drill motors for days and i do have a small drill press. I have only milled wood for one project, that was when i was about 18 and did hardwood flooring for about 8 months out in the hamptons on long island. we did about 10k square feet of reclaimed barn wood flooring and had to rip and plane all of it. I'm looking at milling now, both because of the enjoyment i would get from taking a relatively rough piece of wood and turning it into something to be proud of, and also because i feel like there would be a tremendous savings in material over S4S... this may or may not be true, because i havent really figured up exactly how much i will need, and i don't have the experience yet to determine waste factor.

as far as dust collection goes, that is something i've been watching craigs list for, and raises another question. what size DC's are you guys using? there is a 1hp grizzly on craigs list for 125. I'm curious if this will be sufficient, as it seems a bit small. then again, i'm no stranger to 1000hp+ electric motors... my perception may be skewed.

[Doug Landphair]

Donnie, if you're going to buy rough cut lumber which is much cheaper that S4S (ready to use boards) you'll need a jointer and a planer. However, there are many who will tell you that you don't need either. So, read the opinions and see which works best for you. Personally, I wouldn't trade my jointer or planer. I started out with a Ridgid 6" jointer and a Delta 22-580 13" planer. While the Ridgid is still made the Delta planer is not. As others have said craigslist can be your best friend. I also use Search Tempest to look at multiple craigslist locations for the same item. Saves a lot of time. Anyway, I decided earlier this year to move up to an 8" jointer and a 15" planer. They are faster and have more capacity. Unless you are doing massive amounts of rough cut lumber, don't spend the extra bucks.

If you're doing cabinet face frames, you may want to consider a pocket hole jig. Kreg is probably the most well known.

For raised panel doors it depends on how fancy you want to get. I've done some raised panels using my table saw. Not real fancy but it was cheap!

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Do your research, read lots, ask lots of questions and be patient. And have fun!

[Prashun Patel]

I think you want a larger dust collector than that. I have an underpowered dc on my jointer planer combo for convenience reasons and it makes a resonable chip collector. But it leaves some in the machine which means scallops on the finished surface.

i have a 12" JP combo but beware that we will all try to convince you to go big and bad and avoid the baby steps we took with smaller machines. Truth be told, I used a 6" jointer and lunchbox planer for several years with success and no complaints. I upgraded for luxury not necessity and sold my tools easily. So don't feel like a 6" jointer is wrong.

[Mike McGrath]

Donnie, you can edge joint boards with your router table so if you are buying surfaced boards then the thickness planer would be a great next step. For either a jointer or planer I highly recommend the models that use inserts in a helical pattern instead of knives. There is a tremendous reduction in the noise level and if you should hit a hidden nail you can replace a single insert vs a set of knives. Set up is quick and painless with inserts.

Using the Cutech jointer as an example only two inserts are in contact with the wood at any time instead of the full knife width. In effect this requires less power for each cut and on a planer this would be even more apparent.(Like taking smaller cuts with a router)

I found I get better cuts with the Cutech jointer than I did with the much larger Harbor Freight 6" jointer. The reduced noise level is nice and I think this also aids in dust collection since there is a smaller constant flow of dust/chips.

Food for thought.

[Robert Engel]

My experience is sometimes the price diff between rough and S3S isn't enough to warrant all the work.

I remember a kitchen I built ordered all the rough lumber when I got there just for jollies "what's the price for s3s?" it was like 75 cents/bf more.

Needless to say, swapped it all out.

[Donnie Harkins]

I have used my router table in the past as a jointer for the edges of acrylic when building aquariums. i see how this would work for the edges, but not really sure how i would set this up to safely flatten the face of a board. I have seen in my seemingly endless research plans and demonstrations of planer sleds that allegedly create a flat face. seems like it would be effective, but it also seems elaborate...

is there a number to shoot for on the HP of dust collectors? i have seen some 2hp units, and some cost prohibitive 5 and 10hp units. are the claims that the chip separator trash can lids and inexpensive cyclones like the dust deputy increasing the performance and efficiency of smaller dust collectors true? i think the concept makes sense, but have any of you used them?

I am looking into all 3 machines right now, and honestly i am probably going to get them in whatever order i find the best deals. We are expecting a baby in december, so while i will be able to get them all, eventually, i need to be sure i am making the most cost effective decisions.

I have a Kreg pocket hole kit... its a great tool, i have used it quite a bit for all kinds of projects. i was planning on utilizing it for the face frames i am planning. for the raised panel doors i was looking at matched cope and stick bit sets, and raised panel bits. i have been looking at MLCS Katana and freud. The freud is about twice the price, but from what i've read they are well worth the investment. I haven't really found much about the katana line from mlcs. I have found that the standard mlcs line is typically regarded as an acceptable tool, but not necessarily top notch. any experience with the katana bits?


Thanks again for all the info. i have been lurking here for a few months without posting because there are typically just too many trolls out there on the internet that live to flame people for asking questions. the attitude here has been quite refreshing and helpful!