Type of wood?

[Michael Stein]

Wasn't sure where this should go, so please move/delete if necessary. Anyway, I have two things i am trying to ID the wood on. The first is an end table, the picture was sent to me, and I know it is not the best. I am thinking a mahogany, or cherry, but I am a novice wood worker, so I could be way off. The person who sent it, is asking if I can make another piece with similar color.
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The second is my desk at work. I think it is trying to replicate cherry, but it's certainly not real wood. I am almost positive it is printed like laminate floors, or similar.
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What do you pros think?

[Prashun Patel]

I vote dyed birch for the top one and cherry for the lower one.

[Michael Stein]

Alright, so... Maybe I need to rephrase my question. For the first one, what can I use to get a similar grain pattern and color? I prefer not to, but I can stain, if needed...

Thanks.

[glenn bradley]

You will definitely need to color your material to match the top example IMHO so, I would make peace with that. I have worked with mahogany that color but, this was not consistent over a large range of the material. Again, this is just my opinion and worth everything you're paying for it :D.

I agree on cherry being the subject / appearance in the lower pic. Cherry darkens with age (accelerated by exposure to sunlight) so matching a cherry piece can be done but, retaining the match over time without a lot of artificial coloration is a good trick. Your artificial surface will not change the way actual cherry does is my point ;-)

For the first piece, does the person want an exact match so that the pieces appear to be part of a set or do they just want something that will "go" with the existing piece? If you can make something complimentary, but not an exact match, your options open up considerably. I would have that conversation.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I vote dyed birch for the top.............


Alright, so... Maybe I need to rephrase my question. For the first one, what can I use to get a similar grain pattern? I prefer not to, but I can stain, if needed...

Thanks.

I agree - dyed birch. Had a houseful of doors, trim, windows, molding, built-ins. From the 20's - all dyed birch.

I'm guessing that if you took a full photo of the item in #1 [a door?], we would see some of the characteristic light blotching as well.

Notice Prashun said "dyed" and you replied "stain". Not the same thing.

[Michael Stein]

You will definitely need to color your material to match the top example IMHO so, I would make peace with that. I have worked with mahogany that color but, this was not consistent over a large range of the material. Again, this is just my opinion and worth everything you're paying for it :D.

I agree on cherry being the subject / appearance in the lower pic. Cherry darkens with age (accelerated by exposure to sunlight) so matching a cherry piece can be done but, retaining the match over time without a lot of artificial coloration is a good trick. Your artificial surface will not change the way actual cherry does is my point ;-)

For the first piece, does the person want an exact match so that the pieces appear to be part of a set or do they just want something that will "go" with the existing piece? If you can make something complimentary, but not an exact match, your options open up considerably. I would have that conversation.


Does not have to be an exact match, just something similar to "go" with the piece. Not looking for an exact replica/replacement.

[Michael Stein]

Wasn't sure where this should go, so please move/delete if necessary. Anyway, I have two things i am trying to ID the wood on. The first is an end table, the picture was sent to me, and I know it is not the best. I am thinking a mahogany, or cherry, but I am a novice wood worker, so I could be way off. The person who sent it, is asking if I can make another piece with similar color.
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Let me bump this one more time. Can anyone give me an idea how to create a similar match to the first piece? Does NOT have to be exact, just something similar to go with that piece.

Thanks.

[Kent A Bathurst]

We did.

Birch, and dye, and a varnish of your choice - looks like satin to me.

If the "dye" bit is the hurdle, then I can offer one option from the "absolute newbie in finishing" book, for someone that simply wants to get it done with a reasonable outcome: Minwax PolyShades, in a color of your choosing. It is tinted/colored wipe-on poly.

Minwax wipe-on poly is actually a pretty solid product, if poly is part of your tool kit. Dead-simple to apply, with good results. The cognoscenti will snicker, but the heck with them - kick them out of the house and don't give them any beer.

First thing I ever built - pre-shop, with just a Crapsman Circle Saw and a few Ponys for clamps, was a ply bookcase. PolyShades for color/finish, looking to come close to the dyed birch in the house. It came close, in a relativistic way, when I squinted. The sucker is too convenient and too well built to die - still in use 20+ years later. In a back room, away from the repro Stickley stuff, but still............ should survive the nuke holocaust with the cockroaches and Twinkies.

Don't go more coats than you have to....starts looking a bit odd in terms of the color in the poly and the depth of the color, etc. - kind of muddies up and hides the grain.

[Michael Stein]

We did.

Birch, and dye, and a varnish of your choice - looks like satin to me.

If the "dye" bit is the hurdle, then I can offer one option from the "absolute newbie in finishing" book, for someone that simply wants to get it done with a reasonable outcome: Minwax PolyShades, in a color of your choosing. It is tinted/colored wipe-on poly.

Minwax wipe-on poly is actually a pretty solid product, if poly is part of your tool kit. Dead-simple to apply, with good results. The cognoscenti will snicker, but the heck with them - kick them out of the house and don't give them any beer.

First thing I ever built - pre-shop, with just a Crapsman Circle Saw and a few Ponys for clamps, was a ply bookcase. PolyShades for color/finish, looking to come close to the dyed birch in the house. It came close, in a relativistic way, when I squinted. The sucker is too convenient and too well built to die - still in use 20+ years later. In a back room, away from the repro Stickley stuff, but still............ should survive the nuke holocaust with the cockroaches and Twinkies.

Don't go more coats than you have to....starts looking a bit odd in terms of the color in the poly and the depth of the color, etc. - kind of muddies up and hides the grain.


Thanks Kent. I am located in Eastern NC, without much option for hardwood suppliers. I have one place local, but they do not carry Birch (Birch ply- yes, Birch lumber- no). If I absolutely have to, I can make a trip inland and find a supplier for Birch, but would rather not. My options are pretty limited- Red or White Oak, Hard or Soft Maple, Ash, Poplar, Cherry, Walnut, Cypress, African Mahogany, Sapele, & Teak.

That is issue one, the second part is the dye bit. I have used oil-based stains (such as Minwax) in the past, but never a dye (nor do I know/understand the difference). I have never used the Polyshades product, though I have seen it at the local Lowes, never gave it much thought. My typical finish consists of thinned poly, wiped on with a tshirt style rag. I am a relatively new woodworker, but so far, this has worked for me.

Thanks for the help, I enjoy reading your posts and thoughts.


Just for giggles, here is the most recent table I built for the lady of the house, it was stained to match the other furniture in our living room. I used Minwax stain, and Minwax poly, thinned with Mineral spirits.
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[Jim Dwight]

You can also mail order wood. There are several suppliers who will ship about 20 bd ft via UPS. I've done it and the wood was very usable and not dinged up badly in shipping.

The table looks nice and appears to be oak. It has distinctive grain although ash is similar. Poplar or possibly Maple would look closer to your birch piece (stained or dyed to the appropriate color).

[Kent A Bathurst]

Michael -

Should have asked this bit earlier: What, exactly, is it that you are going to make?

Also, E NC where-ish? E City? G'ville? Swan Qtr?

[Prashun Patel]

Ok, you could use maple or birch.

I would buy a few water based dyes from Lockwood or transtint or transfast then mix and match to get close. Last, top coat it with satin wipe on poly.

You can try all that on a test piece and then tweak.

Dyes work like stains but you mix them yourself from powder or concentrates. Transtint makes concentrates. Dyes allow more control over depth of color and blotchiness.

Personally I wouldn't use polyshades in a matching scenario. That product is harder to control.

Dyes are not hard to work with. You just need to practice a little. If you can make that cute oak table, you can do this!!!!

There is an amber undertone that can be replicated using an oil based topcoat like wipe on poly.

[Steve Beadle]

Wouldu alder be worth a try, I wonder? It's kinda soft, though.

[Michael Stein]

Kent,

Building a long and thin table for a girl I work with, to be placed behind her couch, between the wall/couch. Basically, you will only see the top for the most part. The picture provided is her current living room furniture, and she wants it to be similar. I have explained already, that in no way, do I have the skills necessary to create an exact match. She is ok with that. I can get some very nice Cherry, for around $4.25 BF, I am thinking of using that. Should be close enough in color for her liking. I was just looking for a cheaper alternative, to keep her cost down. I am essentially donating my time and labor, in the end ill make a few dollars, but certainly not building it for the money.

I am in Morehead City, NC. Just inside Cape Lookout, south of Greenville, NC.

[Michael Stein]

Wouldu alder be worth a try, I wonder? It's kinda soft, though.

I came across Alder whilst looking today, and while it certainly looks (based off my internet searches) like it could be a possibility, I called them local shop, and they do not normally carry it.

[Michael Stein]

Thank you sir. I am going to look up those products, and order some. If I don't end up using them this time around, I will have to "plan" a project in order to try them out. I have only built a half dozen or so pieces of furniture, so I am very interested in trying new products, and especially learning more about finishing.

[Kent A Bathurst]

MIchael -

Prashun's maple suggestion is a good one also. Be sure you get all-white material so the top boards match color, and you can make it turn out however you want, in terms of color. Birch is cheaper, except when there ain't no birch.

You could also make it out of cherry or birch or maple ply - good quality stuff - with edge banding of some type. Even the iron-on stuff works fine, looks good, and is easy to use. Or - a 1/4" strip of the hardwood equivalent species.

Realistically, there is a log of very good quality furniture made with ply - eliminates the issues with expansion, for one thing. Attractive in a long, narrow sofa table......

Or......wait a minute:

http://www.baillie.com/hardwood-lumber/north-american-hardwood-lumber

Cove City - pretty close.

Beech and Birch are virtually indistinguishable when finished. They got beech....

[Michael Stein]

MIchael -

Prashun's maple suggestion is a good one also. Be sure you get all-white material so the top boards match color, and you can make it turn out however you want, in terms of color. Birch is cheaper, except when there ain't no birch.

You could also make it out of cherry or birch or maple ply - good quality stuff - with edge banding of some type. Even the iron-on stuff works fine, looks good, and is easy to use. Or - a 1/4" strip of the hardwood equivalent species.

Realistically, there is a log of very good quality furniture made with ply - eliminates the issues with expansion, for one thing. Attractive in a long, narrow sofa table......

Or......wait a minute:

http://www.baillie.com/hardwood-lumber/north-american-hardwood-lumber

Cove City - pretty close.

Beech and Birch are virtually indistinguishable when finished. They got beech....

Have never even heard of them, but it says their Cove City site is "Yard Operations." Not sure what that means, or if they sell any lumber on location there? Guess it is worth a call... I am really leaning toward making the table from Cherry, simply because it is easily accessible, but we shall see.

*Edit - Just called, they don't do anything but drying and "treating" lumber there. No public services or sale. The girl who answered wasn't very knowledgable, either.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

The second pic is most likely either Wilsonart Wild Cherry Or Nevamar Edenwood.
Plastic Laminate.

[David Eisenhauer]

If you are going to stay with this woodworking-furniture building gig, then I suggest you read up some more on wood dye and application. Or check out Homestead Finishing. Dyes are very easy to use (available in water based), relatively inexpensive (a little Transtint goes a long way) and the color range for wood tones is fairly infinite. Jeff Jewitt (Homestead Finishing), Bob Flexner and Michael Whatshislastname? all have highly informative books out on finishing for the regular people. The plywood-banded-with-a-hardwood-strip suggestion is a good idea if saving money is an issue, as well as it negates the need to account for expansion when fastening the table top to the frame.

[mark mcfarlane]

FWIW, I've done one project with Transtint concentrated water-based dye and a few with Polyshades. I prefered the dye experience and the final product. I didn't have enough light when applying the Polyshades to a couple tall solid oak cases and got some color build up in the nooks and crannies. If you wood is not prepped well, or is blotch-prone, the Polyshades approach can work great if you are careful to apply it evenly.

Like Kent said, use as few coats of Polyshades as possible, it will start to hide the grain.

If the wood is uniformly absorbent, you can just flood on a dye and wipe it off for a quick, fantastic uniform color that doesn't hide the grain at all.

For my recent red oak dye project I raised the grain first with water then sanded before applying a water-based dye. I also applied a gel stain on top of the dye to shift the color a little, but wish I didn't. The color was better for my project and my wood with the dye alone, all personal preference of course, and supportive of not being in a hurry, and of testing your finishing schedule all the way through the final coat/wax/rubdown,...



That's my limited experience.