Stanley 65 knucklcap - Proper blade tension?

[Allan Speers]

I recently got a Stanley 65 Knucklecap, actually a Craftsman 3732, which is identical & made by Stanley. (Some were MF & a little different, but mine is Stanley)

I haven't used it yet, but I sure do love how it fits my hand. Nicer even (for me) than my beloved LN 60 1/2.

However, it needed some cleaning & a little Evapo-dipping. When I tried to put it back together, I had a horrible time trying to get the blade securely locked in place. I'd never had a true knucklecap plane before. I had read Patrick Leach's warning about not going too tight on old Stanley blocks, as the mouth can crack. Mine had an intact mouth, and these things are hard to find for sale, so....


But the bloody thing wouldn't lock properly, even with the screw turned all the way in. I finally took a screwdriver to that screw, and nudged it JUST a little. Viola! The kucklecap locked down with a pleasing-but-firm click.

And now I have a large hairline crack on one side of the mouth. :mad:


Ughh. So is there some secret to this, or are they just that finnicky? I'm going to try to get some JB Weld in there and re-flatten the bottom. No resale value but that doesn't matter. I just don't want to re-crack it, or damage the other side.

[Jim Koepke]

Sorry to hear your woes.

Are you sure the crack wasn't there before you cleaned and reassembled?

There are two different designs to the knuckle cap block planes. One the cap has what could be called a couple of fangs to slide under and engage the screw. The later design has a key hole design.

For reassembling a plane I keep the screw loose until everything is together and in place. With the cap in the closed position the screw is driven in with almost no torque. From there it is easy to open the cap, turn the screw a 1/16th or no more than 1/8th of a rotation at a time to get a feel for the cap tension. Others do not always agree, but it is my preference to loosen the cap when making any blade adjustments on most of my block planes. The blade should be held tight enough to prevent the blade from moving in normal use.

Low angle block planes are not made to hog off thick shavings.

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

The steel in the body of those old planes is not as good as some of the modern planes. If you want a modern 65 equivalent, WoodCraft has one in their WoodRiver line.

But back to the older Stanley 65's. I have several of those - I like the way they fit my hand. I think several of them have hairline cracks on the side if the mouth. But I'm able to clamp the blade down without using excessive force so it appears that the cracks are not growing.

Mike

[Tom Bussey]

I guess I am one who does not agree the the lever cap should be loosened to adjust the blade. I feel it should be tight enough to allow the blade to be adjusted with it tightened in place. As soon as the lever cap is loosened all the original settings are lost. The actual teeth that ingage the blade are stronge enough to with stand the cutting forces excerted by the resistance of the wood being cut. All the lever cap needs to do it keep the blade from rising.


Actually the same problem exsists with all planes and most of the frustration with getting the blade adjusted is to tight a lever cap. Instead of advancing a nut a 1/8-1/4 a turn and getting the plane to take athe correct size shaving to having to loosen the lever cap and having to start over because the blade jumped forward or backward on the yoke is called frustration. That is why in the engineering the nuts are brass. Easier to replace a brass nut that replace a steel stud.

Final not just because it has a screw driver slot doesn't mean it has to be tightened so tight the the head of the screw gets stripped out trying to loosen it.

[Allan Speers]

I appreciate the thoughts, guys, but what I really want to know is:
Does the knucklecap usually lock down (enough) with very little force? I.E. without a loud "clunk" sound?

Is it possible that tolerances simply vary, and some are just no good?

I don't see any obvious wear on the mechanism, but 1/8th of a turn less on that screw, and I could easily wiggle the blade side-to-side.

[Jim Koepke]

I appreciate the thoughts, guys, but what I really want to know is:
Does the knucklecap usually lock down (enough) with very little force? I.E. without a loud "clunk" sound?

Is it possible that tolerances simply vary, and some are just no good?

I don't see any obvious wear on the mechanism, but 1/8th of a turn less on that screw, and I could easily wiggle the blade side-to-side.

Allan,

I don't think mine makes a loud "clunk" sound.

Detailed photographs would definitely help. The screw could be wrong. It is possible your plane body and cap are not meant for each other.

jtk

[Mike Henderson]

I appreciate the thoughts, guys, but what I really want to know is:
Does the knucklecap usually lock down (enough) with very little force? I.E. without a loud "clunk" sound?

Is it possible that tolerances simply vary, and some are just no good?

I don't see any obvious wear on the mechanism, but 1/8th of a turn less on that screw, and I could easily wiggle the blade side-to-side.

I don't recall any "thunk" when I tighten the cap. And I can adjust the blade with the cap down.

Mike

[Stewie Simpson]

#65 Block plane, 7"L, 1 3/4"W (1 5/8"W 1909 onward), 1 3/8lbs, 1898-1969.
This block plane is one of the finest planes that Stanley ever made, in my opinion. It certainly proved to be a real crowd pleasure in the user market. Unfortunately, many of them suffer cracking along the extreme ends of the bed, or chipping along the leading edge of the bed, right behind the iron. Examine the extremes of the bed very carefully to note whether there is any damage - it's often hard to notice.

Like the other low-angle block planes, the bottom casting doesn't have a lot of material at the bed where it feathers down to the mouth. A rank set of iron and/or too much clamping pressure via the lever cap is the usual cause of the damage here. Take care when using these planes since they are fragile - only use a fine set on them and they'll last you a lifetime. http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have several and they do not make a "clunking sound". Fiddle around a little to find the sweet spot.

As mentioned, the #65 is simply a great, comfortable design, except for the thinness of the bed area just where the blade contacts the bed. One of my #65 is not the cracked. The other is, but it was not cracked when I got it: I was the cause! The knuckle-cap has to be tensioned "just so" and you have to respect the tool that it is not to be used for hogging material. I cracked mine by having the cap just loose enough to have too much play under the blade, but worse was "just taking a swipe or two" on a piece of plywood, with a splinter slipping under the blade, causing the hairline crack.

As Stewie posted, only use these tools with a fine set and be mindful of direction to prevent a tear-out splinter from cracking your sole!

[Allan Speers]

UPDATE:

After digesting the responses here, I decided to take a long look at the patient, still keeping Patrick Leach's old warning in mind.

I'm not 100% sure (I'm not going to experiment on a good #65 in order to find out) but I think what happened, and what happens to a lot of owners (Hence Leach's warning) is this:

Unlike the blade adjuster mechanisms found on most block planes, the #65 knucklecap has very low nubs, for holding and moving the blade. Well, mine sure does, and they don't appear to be worn-down. So what happened once while I was playing with it today is that, as I pushed down on the cap, the blade came off the nubs and fell into the mouth. I saw this and stopped pushing down, but I'd bet a case of Stanhope Smith's Nut-Brown Ale that this happened the other day. With the blade wedged into the mouth, pressing on the cap would surely stress the mouth edges.

Ughh.

If anyone has a #65 in good condition, can you verify or refute this?

[Allan Speers]

I have several and they do not make a "clunking sound". Fiddle around a little to find the sweet spot.

As mentioned, the #65 is simply a great, comfortable design, except for the thinness of the bed area just where the blade contacts the bed. One of my #65 is not the cracked. The other is, but it was not cracked when I got it: I was the cause! The knuckle-cap has to be tensioned "just so" and you have to respect the tool that it is not to be used for hogging material. I cracked mine by having the cap just loose enough to have too much play under the blade, but worse was "just taking a swipe or two" on a piece of plywood, with a splinter slipping under the blade, causing the hairline crack.

As Stewie posted, only use these tools with a fine set and be mindful of direction to prevent a tear-out splinter from cracking your sole!

Wow, now I'm almost afraid to use the thing!

I wonder if these were actually thicker from the factory, but lots of them have become thinner over the years from owners sanding-down the soles to remove rust?