Best Approach for Cope and Stick for Glass Frames

[Bill Adamsen]

I just ran a mockup for a cope and stick for kitchen cabinets with glass frames. It is not the size of the actual doors (15 doors) nor the selection of wood. I just wanted something to send the client for the validation of stain, finish (not done), glass and stops. I thought it was going to be easier than a captive panel ... but getting the depth on the bottom shoulder of the rail was tricky and I am not entirely happy with the results, certainly not the process. I cut both shoulders, top of tenon and haunch on the sliding box on the tablesaw.

How do you cut the rails?

[Tom M King]

Iwasaki fine and extra-fine wood files are great for fine fitting.

[peter gagliardi]

I cut mine on a tenoner with offset heads.
If you use a small stop block the exact thickness/depth of your rebate on the fence before the blade for first side, then remove and run other face down with end against face, you will get a perfect fit easily.

[Bill Adamsen]

If you use a small stop block the exact thickness/depth of your rebate on the fence before the blade for first side, then remove and run other face down with end against face, you will get a perfect fit easily.

Peter: That's the trick. As long as all the rabbets are the same depth, that will (should) work perfectly. If I can set it up to align the haunch cut too ... that will be perfect. Thanks!

[Martin Wasner]

I put the door together like any other, just no panel. After it's been thickness sanded, I take a rabbet bit to cut most of the part of the sticking that holds the panel in, out. Then I use a flush trim to remove the rest.

[J.R. Rutter]

I put the door together like any other, just no panel. After it's been thickness sanded, I take a rabbet bit to cut most of the part of the sticking that holds the panel in, out. Then I use a flush trim to remove the rest.

That's how I do it, too.

[Justin Ludwig]

I put the door together like any other, just no panel. After it's been thickness sanded, I take a rabbet bit to cut most of the part of the sticking that holds the panel in, out. Then I use a flush trim to remove the rest.


That's how I do it, too.

You guys don't restack the cutters for a glass application? If I only have a couple glass doors mixed in with the rest of the kitchen I'll do it your way, but 6 or more doors , I'll restack the cutter heads to save steps and time.

[Martin Wasner]

You guys don't restack the cutters for a glass application? If I only have a couple glass doors mixed in with the rest of the kitchen I'll do it your way, but 6 or more doors , I'll restack the cutter heads to save steps and time.

Insert heads. Nothing to restack.

[Justin Ludwig]

Is my greenhorn showing?

Never messed with inserts. Making mental notes.

[Bill Adamsen]

How do I set that up with the tenon?

[Justin Ludwig]

assuming you have a shaper... You'd need two groovers. Their diameters with the difference of 3/8-5/8 (preference of construction). Your glass shelf looks to be 1/2?

[Kent Adams]

This looks really good to me. My untrained eye must be missing something.

[Martin Wasner]

Is my greenhorn showing?

Never messed with inserts. Making mental notes.

The entire profile is on one knife.


The reason I do it that way is there is no down time. Just keep running parts as normal. Taking cutters out of two machines takes time. Granted, it takes time to route the backside out, but I'd be surprised if I spent 30 seconds per door doing it. We keep two routers set up specifically for this task.

We also bar clamp our glass doors until the glue is good and hard. I don't know if it actually does any good it if it just mentally makes me feel better.

[J.R. Rutter]

Unless you are cutting full tenons, doing a standard cope/stick then routing out the back makes a nice strong joint vs a glass setup using stacked tooling.

[Bill Adamsen]

... You'd need two groovers. Their diameters with the difference of 3/8-5/8 ...

This has been instructive. That's an approach that would produce fast results. I'd still have to cut the haunch, but could do that on the bandsaw ... and clean up with a chisel. I'll probably chicken out and do it with the tablesaw using the approach Peter suggested. I'm also considering using the domino for the tenon. Thanks all for the comments.

[Justin Ludwig]

Unless you are cutting full tenons, doing a standard cope/stick then routing out the back makes a nice strong joint vs a glass setup using stacked tooling.

Didn't think of it that way. Agreed. Last set we used 18g 5/8" brads for assurance. It was paint grade so filling the holes wasn't a problem.

I have enough routers to justify Martin's set up.

[Martin Wasner]

Didn't think of it that way. Agreed. Last set we used 18g 5/8" brads for assurance. It was paint grade so filling the holes wasn't a problem.

I have enough routers to justify Martin's set up.

We toss two 5/8" pins in each joint on our doors regardless of specie or finish.

[Joe Calhoon]

We have a old Garniga cabinet door set that can be configured by restacking to do a slot and tenon, true haunched tenon with a mortise for special work or just a regular cope and stick that we reinforce with dowels for production work. For square edge shaker style we use 2 adjustable groovers of different diameters stacked. Shaper with sliding table makes clean, repeatable tenons.

This is not a good nor economic method for production door shops like JR and Martin operate but I like it for the limited amount of furniture and cabinet work we do.

324091324092

[Bill Adamsen]

Joe:

Thanks for the picture, that helped.

I actually have a very similar Garniga set to what you're showing ... think it is the 11-102/3 multiprofilo (http://www.garnigasrl.com/SWF/Cap_09_Antine_Ed_13_Rev_01.html) (page 4). That set could be setup to do a 1/4" tenon, with (160-138/2=11mm) an 11mm (just under 7/16") offset. Then for the stile just remove the spacer (thinking out loud).

The glass shelf I cut was about 1/2" deep (to front of tenon) and 5/16" wide. I sized the width more by intuition (not thinking about production capability) and chose 5/16" for visual appearance and a good depth from driving through the pins. 7/16" (1/8" larger) is larger than I wanted, but perhaps acceptable. Definitely love feedback on the width folks have chosen to do on their glass cabinet doors.

Silly question ... I don't have the standard 1-1/4" spindle spacers in a 1/4 inch thickness but I've got a set spacers that includes a 1/4" (tenon size) but it is about 5mm smaller in diameter than the stock spindle spacers. I am assuming that would work fine - right?

I'm such a luddite I often reach for the solution with which I am most comfortable. Thanks for "opening my eyes."

[Keith Hankins]

I make wine cabinets with stained glass doors and seed glass sides. I've found the easiest way is to trust your cope-n-stick. Unless your doors are extremely heavy the haunched tenon imo is not necessayr, there just no weight to sag, and I've built a lot of them and not a single issue. Once assembled I simply put them face down and rout the back half off, so that I can put the glass in and then cut the proper thickness square strips to hold the glass in mitered and custom fit, and pinned. I only (years ago) did one with no way to change a broken glass, and that taught me a good lesson build it so someone can replace a broken plane!

I used a trim router with a block attached to the plate with carpet tape to make it perfect. Works like a charm and is fast. To make the strips I take a 6" wide board round over all four long edges and rip a 1/4" x 1/4" strip on all four sides so that when they pop off, its perfect to pin on. If you want them squared off that makes it one step easier. I then just run that edge over the jointer and rinse-n-repeat as they say. BTW I square the corners with a good chisel.

https://flic.kr/p/qgWQFZ


good luck.

[J.R. Rutter]

Hi Keith, just wondering the reason behind leaving the stiles long on a glass door like the one in your pic.

I've got a very similar Colt router setup to cut stopped chamfers on certain door styles. Works great. The only thing I don't like about it is the dust, even doing it on a downdraft table.

http://i.imgur.com/PFpKsq7.jpg

[Bill Adamsen]

Ok ... need to shim the tenon, but that approach is fast, clean (cutting) and consistent. Thanks.

[J.R. Rutter]

Nicely done, Bill. That will make for some sturdy doors.

[Joe Calhoon]

Hi Bill,
No problem to use the smaller diameter spacers. I do it all the time to get more depth on cuts like this.