Jointer plane help

[Jeffrey Cole]

Good morning, I wish to buy a jointer plane that I will use for jointing boards to glue up into larger panels and then use the plane to flatten the new panel if needed. I am looking at the Veritas Jointer plane # 05P37.71. Then I see their Custom Bench Planes and wonder if there is enough reason for a novice woodworker to go with that custom model. All very confusing to me.
Any help and advise will be very appreciated!!
Thank you for your time!!
Jeffrey

[Archie England]

LA planes (bevel up) excel at handling tough grain, particularly end grain. Bevel down bench planes, when sharpened well, do mostly just as well (can experience more tear out); but, these are the standard tools for working wood. I've rehabbed my own vintage planes (from a #3 to the #8, plus specialty planes) and bought a few LV/LN along way to see what all the mystic is about, too), and I can attest that a well-tuned vintage plane produces equal quality results as the LV/LN planes--I just had to tinker more to get them there. With that said, if you don't have the machinist tools, flattening mediums, grinders, etc. to do rehab work on vintage tools, then the LN/LV classic bench planes are wonderful tools to use. You will still need to purchase good sharpening mediums (I prefer water stones but like numerous other methods, as well). Also, you also need to understand this, the first time you take your plane apart for resharpening, you will begin the frustrating but rewarding track of learning how to fettle a plane into optimum performing settings.

Though a #8 (24") is great for jointing, I achieve similar results from my beloved #6 (18") and can use it for several other tasks. IMO, the #6 is way underrated! So, no, you do not need all three--#6, 7, and 8. Any of these will achieve desired jointing results. BUT, need is not all that matters.... :)

[Frederick Skelly]

I have that jointer plane. It was well worth the money.

To me, the whole custom plane thing comes down to personal preference - what feels better in your hands. If you are still learning to use hand planes, I'd stick with the "stock" jointer. Please take no offence here, but you might not know enough yet to notice an appreciable difference that justifies the extra cost. (Unless you can find someone locally that will let you drive their stock plane, and you learn that you hate the way it feels.)

YMMV.
Fred

[Gene Davis]

Pick up an old Stanley #7. Actually, for the price of the Veritas, you can get the 7 and something else.

Do a web search for Patrick Leach Tools. He is the guru of old iron, and publishes a monthly sell sheet, listing Stanleys, Records, Stanley Bedrocks, and more. You can trust him.

Edit: I went back and looked through his October tool list, and here is a Bedrock 607 for sale, $225. The Bedrocks go for almost twice what you pay Patrick for a Stanley non-Bedrock.

[Archie England]

Pick up an old Stanley #7. Actually, for the price of the Veritas, you can get the 7 and something else.

Do a web search for Patrick Leach Tools. He is the guru of old iron, and publishes a monthly sell sheet, listing Stanleys, Records, Stanley Bedrocks, and more. You can trust him.

Edit: I went back and looked through his October tool list, and here is a Bedrock 607 for sale, $225. The Bedrocks go for almost twice what you pay Patrick for a Stanley non-Bedrock.

Bedrock planes are often better machined, thus requiring less fettling; but they are often twice more than the common production planes. Try to buy a pre-WW2 production Stanley plane. Types 9-16 can yield stellar results, with the 11s being my favorite. Again, YMMV; but a type 11 at $60-85 equals a Bedrock at $ 85-175 or LN/LV @ $225-495. OTOH, any common plane, once fettled, might do as well. It's preference and possibilities vs. cost, convenience, and confidence.

Whatever you do, have fun. Buy right the first time and you will never want to look back!!!!

[Jim Koepke]

Jeffrey,

Are you anywhere near Denver?

Lie-Nielsen will be having a tool event there on November 6th & 7th. I know you mentioned you were looking at a Veritas plane. The idea would be to look at and maybe test drive the LN versions of bevel up and bevel down jointers. It would allow you to see if the blade orientation makes a difference to you.

My preference for the work you describe would be a #5-1/2 or #6 plane. Long enough to join boards but short enough to smooth a panel.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

Good morning, I wish to buy a jointer plane that I will use for jointing boards to glue up into larger panels and then use the plane to flatten the new panel if needed. I am looking at the Veritas Jointer plane # 05P37.71. Then I see their Custom Bench Planes and wonder if there is enough reason for a novice woodworker to go with that custom model. All very confusing to me.
Any help and advise will be very appreciated!!
Thank you for your time!!p
Jeffrey

Hi Jeffrey

Firstly, on the question of jointer planes, there are a host of them that work well. Everyone here will simply tell you what they have and tend to support this as a result if they cannot answer your question directly. Make your decision based on this awareness. But the first fact is that they all work, and a metal plane around the 22" mark is considered a jointer. Whether Stanley or LN or LV, the #7 is the architypical jointer plane.

There are also wooden jointers, some around this length and others longer. My preference in a wooden jointer is 28". Generally they are lighter than the metal counterpart - but this does not necessarily make them easier to use.

If you are starting out and choose your wood carefully - softer and straight grained - a Stanley #7 is the cheapest option. All bevel down (BD) planes may be used without setting the chipbreaker, which takes a little time to master, and you can do well enough without one. If you were planing more figured wood, I would consider the LV Custom plane with a higher frog. This is preferred to the LN #7 with a higher frog as the blade is narrower (less harder to push). The LN is, nevertheless, a very fine plane, better than the Stanley insofar as finish goes, producing a tighter response. The other alternative in this area is the LV Bevel Up (BU) jointer, which can use a high cutting angle through a high bevel angle. It is a very simple plane to set up, works very well and reliably, and is a top choice for someone starting out.

I work highly interlocked and figured woods. My personal jointer planes include a LV/Veritas Custom #7, which is used with the chipbreaker on a 40 degree frog. This is not a beginners set up. I also have used a LV BU Jointer for many years, and what I enjoy about this plane is that it has a high feel of control on the edge of a board due to its low gravity. My third jointer is a woodie, which I use less than the others as it has a different feel - high sides reduce feedback (until you get used to this).

Here is a recent review of the LV Custom planes:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes1.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jeffrey Cole]

Thank you all for your information. Truly a lot to think about. Yes I am new to planes so the LV bevel-up looks good to me for now. I did not take offence to anyone, I do not know about planes and that is why I am asking for help. I do not wish to make a mistake when spending this kind of $. I will still make them, just want to cut down the frequency when I can.
Thanks again for all your help!!!
Jeffrey

[Jim Koepke]

I do not wish to make a mistake when spending this kind of $. I will still make them, just want to cut down the frequency when I can.

The biggest advantage with the planes from Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen is the way they retain their value if they are resold. On occasion due to some tax laws on new versus used items, foreign buyers will pay more for a used plane than they will for a new plane. In the end it comes out to be less expensive.

Lie-Nielsen has tool events in many areas so folks can actually get their hands on the tools to see how they feel. There are also other tool makers present. If a person has a question, there are a lot of people there happy to answer questions all day long. They do not get upset at newcomers questions and if someone else asked the same question earlier, they smile and answer it again.

I am not sure if any of the woodworking stores still carry Lee Valley tools. There may be someone near you who will let you test drive theirs.

jtk

[Allan Speers]

I work highly interlocked and figured woods. My personal jointer planes include a LV/Veritas Custom #7, which is used with the chipbreaker on a 40 degree frog. This is not a beginners set up. I also have used a LV BU Jointer for many years, and what I enjoy about this plane is that it has a high feel of control on the edge of a board due to its low gravity. My third jointer is a woodie, which I use less than the others as it has a different feel - high sides reduce feedback (until you get used to this).


That's interesting, Derek. I have maybe 6-7 jointers. No LV or LN, but several well-fettled Stanleys of the #7 & #8 persuasion. My favorite jointer by far is my ECE/Primus woodie. I like the feel of wood-on-wood, and I just love the weight / balance. The height of the handles never seemed a problem.

- but having said that, I mostly use it (them) for face jointing. I'm now interested to go out & try some edge jointing experiments with all of my jointers again, concentrating specifically on this issue.

[Scott DelPorte]

Hi Jeffrey,
I have a bunch of LN and LV planes in bevel up and down configurations along with a couple Stanley Bedrock copies. That "custom" jointer looks like a fine tool. They are probably pretty expensive, but I would estimate that they are worth every penny if you can afford it. I was not aware of this product line, but it looks like a bevel down with Norris adjuster, and a couple of other nice LV features that I like (easy mouth adjuster and set screws for blade centering). Its also got a bunch of options for handles and frogs that would make it so you could really customize it for your preferences. If I was in the market for a plane I would seriously consider these.

As sweet as that plane looks, I think I would steer you away from it for now if you are uncertain of your own preferences for all the options. I think I would suggest getting a more "standard" plane (Stanley Bedrock type from a quality manufacturer) for now, and develop your skills with sharpening and using a plane. Then, when you get a sense of what angle frog you want or what kind of handle suits you etc. etc. based on your usage, you can get exactly what you want in a custom plane. A well set up "standard" plane with a sharp blade is a versatile tool that will do amazing work. There is a good reason why that design has endured.

I would not hesitate to recommend LV or LN planes because I have experience with them. Others will be able to recommend other brands. I have a ~100 year old bedrock type plane (Keen Kutter) that I recently bought from another SMC member, and it works just as good as any of my new planes. However, someone (not me) with specialized expertise spend a good deal of time to refurbish it so it works like new.

Hope this is helpful

Thanks
Scott

[steven c newman]

The "main" Jointer in the shop..
324071
Is 24" long, sports a 2-3/8" wide iron that is square across, no camber. !892 Stanley No.31. Weighs a few pounds less than the iron bodied ones do...

Also have a Stanley No. 6c Type 10, and a Stanley No.5-1/2 Type 17. All three seem to work just fine....

[Derek Cohen]

That's interesting, Derek. I have maybe 6-7 jointers. No LV or LN, but several well-fettled Stanleys of the #7 & #8 persuasion. My favorite jointer by far is my ECE/Primus woodie. I like the feel of wood-on-wood, and I just love the weight / balance. The height of the handles never seemed a problem.

- but having said that, I mostly use it (them) for face jointing. I'm now interested to go out & try some edge jointing experiments with all of my jointers again, concentrating specifically on this issue.

Hi Allan

Test out the jointers on 3/4" wide edges. That is a common width. Then try a 1/2" wide edge.

Faces are no test at all, and edges that are 1 1/2" wide are no different to faces.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Allan Speers]

Will do, first chance I get.


Thanks, bro.

[Robert Engel]

I think you are on the right track re: buying a new plane.

I went looking for a used Stanley #7 on Ebay and the bids usually end up $100-150 unless it a total "rustoration" project.
I did end up with a No. 8 and the bottom was warped.
I think that's the big issue with an old plane.

WoodRiver makes a No. 7 that, if it is like the No. 6 that I currently have will be worth looking at for a little over $300.

P.S. I agree with Derek I would rarely use a jointer for face planing. I think the #6 is quite adequate.

And I am with Archie I think the #6 is very underrated. It is the most used plane in my shop.

[lowell holmes]

Actually, I think you should get one of each kind of plane like the rest of us.

That means a #7 Stanley Bailey, a 607 Bedrock, a bevel up plane or two from Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen. And if you run across a #6 along the way, pick it up too. :)

I have a 607 Bedrock for my jointer. I can tell you that a # 5 1/2 Bailey that I have gets used a lot. It will joint lengths up to 36 to 42 ".

[Prashun Patel]

I own the Veritas Bevel Up Jointer Plane. I also own a BD jointer plane, as well as a bevel up jack and smoother.

While I am increasingly moving away from the bevel ups in favor of bevel downs, the Veritas Jointer plane is my exception. I like its ergonomics better than the bevel down. I can't explain it, it just feels better to me.

If you are new to edge jointing, I'd also spring for the edge guide. It's a little fidgety to set up, but produces perfect results.

[John Sanford]

Good morning, I wish to buy a jointer plane that I will use for jointing boards to glue up into larger panels and then use the plane to flatten the new panel if needed. I am looking at the Veritas Jointer plane # 05P37.71. Then I see their Custom Bench Planes and wonder if there is enough reason for a novice woodworker to go with that custom model. All very confusing to me.
Any help and advise will be very appreciated!!
Thank you for your time!!
Jeffrey

I have the Veritas Custom Jack Plane (#5), and love it. The adjustable mouth is, to my mind, a much more convenient method of varying shaving width than moving the frog. Both, of course, do work, but there is easy peasy (adjustable mouth), simple (Bedrock frog) and annoying (standard frog). My "desert island bench plane" would be either the Custom Jack or Low Angle Jack. I also prefer the Norris adjuster, likely because I've spent too much time futzing with the standard lateral adjuster on older mid quality planes.

For the jointer, I'd go with either the Lie-Nielsen (#6 or #7, play with them at the Hand Tool Event), a Veritas (my preference is for the Custom, but only available as a #7 currently) or in third place would be a Woodriver (#6 or #7). Given that it's your first plane, I'd be more inclined to the Lie-Nielsen or Veritas, simply because the chance of getting one that isn't dead nuts ready is very small. Having gone through the noob learning curve myself without any hands-on guidance or instruction, I can say that one of the most valuable things that I did was get a good plane. Before I did so, I had no benchmark, no sense of what a properly set up plane was like. This is the problem with the notion of a noob getting a used plane. Sure, you COULD restore one to working condition, but you'd be just as likely to accomplish nothing or make it even worse. All at the cost of a good bit of time. Get one good plane, and then you'll know what it is that you're aiming for when you resurrect old planes.

When you're at the Hand Tool event, the three things I suggest you focus on learning are sharpening, setting the cap iron on the blade and setting the lever cap tension just right. Getting the last one right means you can adjust the blade easily. Getting it wrong either means that the blade won't hold it's setting or it's a bear to make fine adjustments.