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daniel coyle
10-21-2015, 7:06 PM
I am ordering a new machine from GWeike. Most likely a 1390. I have been using a 100W machine to cut 1/4 " cork (cork does not cut easily) and it does an ok, but not awesome, job. I want to upgrade to at least a 130-150 tube and maybe higher. I just don't want to worry about it not cutting anymore. Are there any drawbacks or negative experiences people have had with getting more powerful tubes, particularly Reci? I would get a 180 if I knew it was a good idea. Feedback on the machine purchase is welcome also.

Dave Sheldrake
10-21-2015, 8:16 PM
Inverse square law Dan, huge tubes don't cut at double the speed of tubes half the size.

The 1390 size machines (cabinet type) are a pain to align with big DC tubes due to the bigger spot sizes but standard size mirrors (12mm beam diameter into a mirror that is 23mm viewable size)

If you imagine you have:

150mm from the tube lens to the top left side of the table
900mm from that top left to bottom left
1300mm from bottom left to bottom right

So all in all around 2,350mm (near 2.5M) maximum distance you have to align the machine over.

Bigger tubes cost big money to replace. On my ZX(ZN) 1850 from EFR (150watt agreed,180watt peak) it will cut 3mm MDF at 44mm per second easily with no failures. Moving up to the F220 tube from EFR (220 watts agreed,240 watts peak) it will cut 3mm MDF at 52mm per second.

That's jumping from a $1,500 tube to a $4,500 tube.

A 130 agreed / 150 peak will do pretty much anything a 150 agreed will do in 110% of the time and costs considerably less.

My next flatbed is going to be a 2,500 x 1,300 with a 150 agreed in it just for cutting ,possibly a 180 agreed if the price is right.

If you want bed area and big pipes go for a flatbed, a lot easier to align as the tube is in the gantry. I'll probably go for a SinJoe as a tester as it has an AWC708C Plus card as well and imports at $6,599 FOB (80 watt as I have a spare EFR150) + the extra $900 for a Japanese servo drive system

daniel coyle
10-21-2015, 8:41 PM
Wow. Great information. Thanks Dave.

A couple clarifications as you have enlightened me beyond my wildest!

I am not familiar with the terms "agreed"/"peak". Sounds intuitive to understand but any more you could say about this would help.
These flatbed machines that carry the tube on the gantry, I have not heard of before. Is there a special name they have that I can use to search for these types and don't get bogged down in results that show the standard model that I have with the tube in back?
Aside from the hassle of alignment, does carrying the tube on the gantry do anything for power/performance? For example, could I get away with a less powerful tube if I bought this type of machine?
Finally, what is an AWC708C Plus card and why is it good?
Thanks again!!

Keith Winter
10-21-2015, 9:27 PM
Hi Daniel I have a EFR ZN-1650 130w agreed tube per Dave's suggestion to get an EFR tube. I've only had it two days, and I cannot speak to lifespan or engraving performance, as I have not engraved much with it yet. However I must say I like how it cuts A LOT. Take this with a grain of salt due to my limited experience with the tube, but so far it's cutting very well

Dave Sheldrake
10-21-2015, 10:32 PM
I am not familiar with the terms "agreed"/"peak". Sounds intuitive to understand but any more you could say about this would help.
These flatbed machines that carry the tube on the gantry, I have not heard of before. Is there a special name they have that I can use to search for these types and don't get bogged down in results that show the standard model that I have with the tube in back?
Aside from the hassle of alignment, does carrying the tube on the gantry do anything for power/performance? For example, could I get away with a less powerful tube if I bought this type of machine?
Finally, what is an AWC708C Plus card and why is it good?
Thanks again!

Heya Dan,

Many of the Leetro based machines come wired analog (0-5V signal) so will only do black and white engraving. The AWC card by default is set up to provide 256 shade greyscale engraving (bit like Epilogs etc) using true PWM, they also allow adjustment of PPI that is not available on the normal set up for Leetro cards.

Gantry based tubes have generally less distance for the beam to travel, less distance = more power (to some extent) (or rather less distance for the beam to diverge or lose power due to CO2 shielding (CO2 blocks IR like a brick wall)

Agreed power is the power level a laser will provide reliably, peak is the maximum you can expect when striking or when the tube is new. The "Agreed" thing came about to stop companies making rash claims about tubes, calling 700mm tubes 45 watt etc when in reality they were 32 watt average (but fired initially at 40 to 45)

Most of the name sin China do Flatbed lasers

SinJoe
Thunder
HX King Rabbit

etc etc

323821 This is a flatbed with a gantry mounted tube

323822

This is one of mine. (an HX 2515)

daniel coyle
10-22-2015, 3:03 AM
Ok. Thanks. So, EFR tubes are a different brand of tube from Reci, not a different type of tube altogether, right? Is there something better about this brand?

daniel coyle
10-22-2015, 3:13 AM
Also, looks like flatbed lasers are meant for cutting only? No real z movement and no engraving?

Keith Winter
10-22-2015, 7:55 AM
Yes the EFR is a different brand name efr zn-1650 is the tube I have. Dave could speak more to the differences in the two tubes. There is also a post or two on the board of people replacing reci tubes with efr tubes and liking the results. A quick search should turn up those posts. I was encouraged to read John Noell's positive experience he posted on the board of switching from reci to efr.

Glen Monaghan
10-22-2015, 1:47 PM
So they're slinging a water jacketed laser tube forwards and backwards on the Y axis, trailing cooling supply and drain lines along the side??

Dave Sheldrake
10-22-2015, 6:22 PM
So they're slinging a water jacketed laser tube forwards and backwards on the Y axis, trailing cooling supply and drain lines along the side??

Yup...it works pretty well too, aligning the big boxes over large distances is difficult, if it was machine mounted there would be a possible 150mm + 2,500mm + 1,500mm from the tube optics to the final lens if the head was bottom right. The tubing runs inside a cable chain next to the right hand side bearing rails.

At that distance a 1 degree change in mirror angle will move the beam spot 76mm if it was machine mounted


Ok. Thanks. So, EFR tubes are a different brand of tube from Reci, not a different type of tube altogether, right? Is there something better about this brand?

Much better quality control and a purer gas mix, they tend to outlast RECI and produce stable power over time (rather than high initial power that drops down quickly) the beams are great profiles and they use housekeeper joints (metal to glass rather than glued)


Also, looks like flatbed lasers are meant for cutting only? No real z movement and no engraving?

Any DC Chinese tube over 80 watts isn't great for engraving, the power density at the minimum level they will fire at is too high, remember due to the bigger beam going into the optics the final spot is a lot smaller than a lower powered tube.

The head optics on the machines moves, the bed is fixed (but can be removed) so adjustment can be annoying but I keep a set of rings handy that slip over the lens tube to make thickness adjustments easier.

The mirrors are 30mm and the final lens 25mm so a much bigger target to hit as well :) the focal length is 75mm as standard but can be changed like any other chinese box. :)

daniel coyle
10-27-2015, 1:13 AM
Dave, thanks so much for the answers and info. I am seriously considering buying a flat bed. I had been talking with Gweike about a laser and asked them about their flatbeds. They don't carry high wattage EFR's, only RECI, and they said that if I pay an extra $500 I can get a bed that can move (Z motion) or, at least, that's what I understood they were saying. They sent me a picture and it is the same style as the pics you posted. I want to get something that will cut .25 inch cork EASILY and from my experience with traditional tube machines this means me having a 130/150 tube or higher. So, any feedback you have would make a big difference here as the flatbed, while bigger, is also about $2-3K more expensive. Also, dan you send me the model/brand machine you use?

Keith Winter
10-27-2015, 4:07 AM
I would suggest you look into other manufacturers as well g weike is one of the cheapest but numerous quality control issues the past year or two. From the posts I've read seems like they have more issues with the newer machines than old. You might look at that flatbed Dave suggested from rabbit. Dave's quite knowledge. I found different manufacturers also offer different tube choices, or at least are willing to work with different tube manufacturers if that makes sense?