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Keith Winter
10-19-2015, 4:51 PM
I've got a lense or two I need to replace on my Trotecs. I love Trotec, but they charge an arm and a leg for these things. Does anyone have a supplier they could suggest for a direct replacement for a 2.5" trotec lens? I'd like it to be 100% compatible if possible.

Mark Sipes
10-19-2015, 5:30 PM
These folks have had good words sent their way from the forum

http://www.laserresearch.net/laser_engravers.asp

60% of OEM .

Scott Shepherd
10-19-2015, 5:38 PM
Keith, call iivi (pronounced 2-6) if I typed it right :) http://www.iiviinfrared.com

I think I paid about $120 for a lens. It's just the lens, not the holder, and it's the people who make them for Trotec.

Gary Hair
10-19-2015, 6:37 PM
I've got a lense or two I need to replace on my Trotecs. I love Trotec, but they charge an arm and a leg for these things. Does anyone have a supplier they could suggest for a direct replacement for a 2.5" trotec lens? I'd like it to be 100% compatible if possible.

Trotec is going to charge you for the lens and the holder, you only really need the lens. As Steve mentioned, II-VI is the place to go for lenses. The one that came with my Speedy 400 was in a II-VI box. I also found a lens holder on ebay for $48 and mounted one of the spare lenses I had laying around so now I have a 2.5" and a 1.5" lens.

Regardless of where you bought the lens, you should check the focus as it will likely vary from lens to lens.

Dave Sheldrake
10-19-2015, 7:12 PM
II-VI every time....one of the three foremost laser optical manufacturers in the world.

II-VI
RMI
Zeiss

Keith Winter
10-19-2015, 8:34 PM
Thanks so much everyone! We had a couple accidents this month I, was dreading buying more. $120 + $35 I can swallow. What do you attach them to the holder with? And suggestions on anything that will dissolve the glue currently on there withwith?

Bob A Miller
10-19-2015, 8:44 PM
Keith

i burned a couple myself.. My understanding is they are glued in with industrial crazy glue. I suspect soaking in nail polish remover would be a good start.. Haven't tried it yet myself but have been wanting to.

Scott Shepherd
10-19-2015, 8:46 PM
Drop it in some acetone and let it soak for a little while. You'll be able to push it out with your fingers if it doesn't fall out after that. We used the gel super glue to attach the new lens. It's been working fine for about 2 years now.

Keith Winter
10-19-2015, 9:19 PM
Thank you!

Raphael Weil
03-04-2016, 6:09 PM
I saw these guys linked on another thread on here: http://www.lightobject.com/Lens-Mirror-C16.aspx

Should I avoid them and stick to iiv?

Mike Null
03-04-2016, 9:19 PM
I don't know whether they're good or not but I respect those who have recommended II VI. That's where I'd go if I needed my first replacement lens in 19 years.

Craig Matheny
06-23-2016, 5:31 PM
II-VI every time....one of the three foremost laser optical manufacturers in the world.

II-VI
RMI
Zeiss

I am on my third lens from these guys in my 60 watt the company Epilog uses and within 4-5 months of cutting the lens gets light in the middle like the finish has dissipated and cuts like crap. Now before we go with the exhaust and lens cleaning I have 2 lasers same exact hookup so it points to the manufacture. Epilog warranted the first one. Lens on the left new lens on the right second replacement lens. So 2 lens in a row same machine within 8 months time. I have ran these machines together for 4 years cutting wood 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week and in the last 8 months lens issues from this company not sure if they had a bad batch but look for yourself.

Gary Hair
06-23-2016, 5:46 PM
I'm sure a bad batch is possible but I know nothing about the process so that's just a guess.

I am curious how often you clean your lenses and what criterion do you use to determine when it's time to clean them?

I think it if it were me, under the same circumstances (8-10 hours a day*6 days a week) I would have several sets of lenses/holders and swap them out twice at least twice a day, I can't imagine that they would go much longer than than without getting dirty, at least dirty enough to cause damage.

Just my -unsolicited- opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it!

Craig Matheny
06-23-2016, 6:16 PM
I'm sure a bad batch is possible but I know nothing about the process so that's just a guess.

I am curious how often you clean your lenses and what criterion do you use to determine when it's time to clean them?

I think it if it were me, under the same circumstances (8-10 hours a day*6 days a week) I would have several sets of lenses/holders and swap them out twice at least twice a day, I can't imagine that they would go much longer than than without getting dirty, at least dirty enough to cause damage.

Just my -unsolicited- opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it!

Remember in my first post 2 exact setups one lens issue on one machine other one is fine as a matter a fact I think that lens is going on 20 months. We clean them twice a day along with the mirrors removal and complete clean 2x week.
This is not a cleaning issue the machine might not look the cleanest but the items that count are spotless.

The only reason I responded to this is that they obviously have some bad lenses. Did you look at the picture? THese lasers use to run 12 hours a day 7 days a week at a theme park in the elements and 90+ degree heat in summer never a lens issue ate tubes up due to the heat but cost of business.

Steve Morris
06-23-2016, 6:43 PM
If you have 2 identical machines and one eats lenses and the other doesn't I would look at the machine setup, there must be a difference between them

Craig Matheny
06-23-2016, 10:03 PM
If you have 2 identical machines and one eats lenses and the other doesn't I would look at the machine setup, there must be a difference between them
Already have complete tear down after the last one got ate that is why I am leaning on bad batch lenses

Bert Kemp
06-24-2016, 12:23 AM
what does 11 v1 say


Already have complete tear down after the last one got ate that is why I am leaning on bad batch lenses

Kev Williams
06-24-2016, 2:42 AM
I've had 2 lenses crack like that, and 2 more I have with spots--

In my case it wasn't the lenses, or the machine- it's what I was cutting. Every so often a bit of sap, or plastic, or rock chip, or glass shard, or whatever, will 'ricochet' and hit the lens. Hard pieces can scratch or chip the lens, the organic stuff will stick to the lens, at which point the beam will either vaporize it quickly, or fuse it to the lens. If it fuses, the beam can get it hot enough to heat-stress the lens and crack it. Sometimes it will eventually roast what's stuck, and you'll find a spot on the lens.

I watched this happen on my Triumph one day, when deep cutting some wood for a customer. While watching the machine run, I noticed white light shining onto the wood for a few seconds. When the machine finished, I removed the lens housing and noticed the lens was broken. When I removed the lens from the tube it was in 3 pieces, and at the center of the lens where the crack started was a tiny dot of coked(?) charcoal, the source of my white light, and the heat that busted the lens. My spotted lenses had charcoal guck on them too, but they've never cracked.

My LS900, about 6 months after I bought it I was getting goofy looking lettering at certain Y coordinates. My rep had a service guy come out and figure out why- turned out he Y axix stepper belt had a tear in it, which started from a hot spark ricochet that hit the edge of the belt and slightly melted it, and it started to tear afterwards at some point...

Anyway, hot sparks do fly in these machines sometimes, and sometimes they take out lenses and belts! :)

Craig Matheny
06-24-2016, 9:09 AM
HAve not contacted them letting Epilog deal with it as that is who I bought the lens from if no answer in a week then I will take it into my hands and contact them.

Keith Winter
06-24-2016, 2:13 PM
I am on my third lens from these guys in my 60 watt the company Epilog uses and within 4-5 months of cutting the lens gets light in the middle like the finish has dissipated and cuts like crap. Now before we go with the exhaust and lens cleaning I have 2 lasers same exact hookup so it points to the manufacture. Epilog warranted the first one. Lens on the left new lens on the right second replacement lens. So 2 lens in a row same machine within 8 months time. I have ran these machines together for 4 years cutting wood 8-10 hours a day 6 days a week and in the last 8 months lens issues from this company not sure if they had a bad batch but look for yourself.

To me it looks like something desolved the coating on the lens on the right. However 5 months of heavy cutting isn't terrible for lifespan. Ideally you'd like to see a couple years or more, but if you're cleaning a lot and uses cheap cleaning paper or cheap cleaning solution, or bad technique you're going to go through more lenses than say perfect technique with the best cleaning supplies.

What are you using cleaning supplies wise? Also what is your exact technique? You should use a new piece of tissue paper every wipe and never rub aggressively, or use the same piece of tissue for more than one stroke.

Raphael Weil
06-29-2016, 9:30 AM
To me it looks like something desolved the coating on the lens on the right. However 5 months of heavy cutting isn't terrible for lifespan. Ideally you'd like to see a couple years or more, but if you're cleaning a lot and uses cheap cleaning paper or cheap cleaning solution, or bad technique you're going to go through more lenses than say perfect technique with the best cleaning supplies.

What are you using cleaning supplies wise? Also what is your exact technique? You should use a new piece of tissue paper every wipe and never rub aggressively, or use the same piece of tissue for more than one stroke.

Out of curiosity what's considered cheap paper and cheap solution? Trotec sent me the big pink bottle after initially sending me the really cheap little white bottle. I also have their sheets that come in the orange package with the laser. If that stuff is bad I'll certainly buy something else.

Craig Matheny
06-29-2016, 10:49 AM
Keith I have 2 lasers only this one has had the bad lens the other unit is at least 1 year + old so technique is not the issue. Lens cleaner is the optical cleaner from Epilog this is why I jumped in this post to see if others have had the issue.

Gary Hair
06-29-2016, 11:12 AM
Out of curiosity what's considered cheap paper and cheap solution?
That's a good question. I'd say getting it from a reliable source, not ebay, would be a start. Trotec, for example, should be a reliable source.


Trotec sent me the big pink bottle after initially sending me the really cheap little white bottle. I also have their sheets that come in the orange package with the laser. If that stuff is bad I'll certainly buy something else.

My bet is that Trotec isn't going to send you cheap stuff. I'd continue using it.

If you are cleaning lenses twice a day then you are probably cleaning them 30 times more than most users, solely due to your usage, and they will have a much shorter lifespan than someone else might get out of theirs. If you are a little too aggressive with your cleaning then I would think you could shorten the lifespan as well, maybe by a lot.

Here is a great resource for the proper technique.
http://www.iiviinfrared.com/resources/optics_handling_cleaning.html

Kev Williams
06-29-2016, 12:42 PM
FWIW, I've cleaned my lenses for years using Windex, Fantastic, DNA, my breath--and a Q-tip. I have NEVER scratched a GOOD lens ( like those that came with the ULS and my LS900, both of which are originals, 19 and 12 years old) by cleaning them this way. The scratches that have happened was due something already on the lens that scratched it during the cleaning. I've posted pics of my ULS lens, the coating is in horrendous shape, which happened within 15 seconds one day when attempting to etch a piece of polished black onyx. The onxy literally exploded like fireworks while lasering, and and the flying pieces pretty much sandblasted the lens. Yet, at 19 years old this lens will still produce flawless .050" tall characters on any material. As for the cheap $20 ebay lenses, they tend to scratch pretty easily, but I've found if I'm just a little more careful (I don't baby stuff) they clean up nicely. Don't use used Q-tips is good advice I learned the hard way ;)

I have to laugh at the GCC instructions on how to clean the mirrors, by pulling a wetted lens paper across the mirror and letting it air dry. Phhfff. My mirrors would never get clean that way. They get the same attention my lenses do, usually just a dry wipe with a Q-tip unless they're scuzzy, and that's rare. I've only had to replace one mirror ever, and the only reason I replaced that one (the one above the lens on my LS900) was because I'd scratched it while experimenting with it to see if the other side worked (it didn't)...and the replacement was free :)

Raphael Weil
06-29-2016, 1:44 PM
That's a good question. I'd say getting it from a reliable source, not ebay, would be a start. Trotec, for example, should be a reliable source.



My bet is that Trotec isn't going to send you cheap stuff. I'd continue using it.

If you are cleaning lenses twice a day then you are probably cleaning them 30 times more than most users, solely due to your usage, and they will have a much shorter lifespan than someone else might get out of theirs. If you are a little too aggressive with your cleaning then I would think you could shorten the lifespan as well, maybe by a lot.

Here is a great resource for the proper technique.
http://www.iiviinfrared.com/resources/optics_handling_cleaning.html

Trotec support told me to do them daily. Bad advice? Same with mirrors.


FWIW, I've cleaned my lenses for years using Windex, Fantastic, DNA, my breath--and a Q-tip. I have NEVER scratched a GOOD lens ( like those that came with the ULS and my LS900, both of which are originals, 19 and 12 years old) by cleaning them this way. The scratches that have happened was due something already on the lens that scratched it during the cleaning. I've posted pics of my ULS lens, the coating is in horrendous shape, which happened within 15 seconds one day when attempting to etch a piece of polished black onyx. The onxy literally exploded like fireworks while lasering, and and the flying pieces pretty much sandblasted the lens. Yet, at 19 years old this lens will still produce flawless .050" tall characters on any material. As for the cheap $20 ebay lenses, they tend to scratch pretty easily, but I've found if I'm just a little more careful (I don't baby stuff) they clean up nicely. Don't use used Q-tips is good advice I learned the hard way ;)

I have to laugh at the GCC instructions on how to clean the mirrors, by pulling a wetted lens paper across the mirror and letting it air dry. Phhfff. My mirrors would never get clean that way. They get the same attention my lenses do, usually just a dry wipe with a Q-tip unless they're scuzzy, and that's rare. I've only had to replace one mirror ever, and the only reason I replaced that one (the one above the lens on my LS900) was because I'd scratched it while experimenting with it to see if the other side worked (it didn't)...and the replacement was free :)


Like a mix of all those things, or you mean you've used all of them at one point successfully? I'm totally up for using Windex and a q-tip. Sounds ideal! Anyone else do that?

Kev Williams
06-29-2016, 2:34 PM
I just use whatever's within arm's reach :)

If I could actually discern any significant (or even insignificant) degradation of engraving or cutting "quality" due to a couple of scratches on a lens, maybe I'd be a little more careful :)

to wit:

Here's a piece of black anodized I just engraved---
339976


and these are the two lenses I used:
339977

So who can guess which lens engraved which line? ;)

Gary Hair
06-29-2016, 3:15 PM
Trotec support told me to do them daily. Bad advice? Same with mirrors.

In my opinion that is horrible advice! The only reason to clean the optics is when they need it, not some set schedule. I can go for a week or two without cleaning the lens and even longer for mirrors. However, if I'm lasering lots of acrylic or wood then I may clean them every couple of hours - again - as needed.


I'm totally up for using Windex and a q-tip. Sounds ideal! Anyone else do that?

NO! NO!, NO!, NO!, NO! Please don't do that! I don't care what Kev's results are, that WILL damage your optics. It costs so little to get the proper supplies and takes so little time to do it correctly that it's foolish to do it any other way.

Raphael Weil
06-29-2016, 4:13 PM
Thanks for the great advice. And I suppose since all I do right now is really sappy hardwood, then the daily schedule makes sense for me.

Gary Hair
06-29-2016, 6:26 PM
"As needed" - if you set yourself on a daily schedule then you'll come to a time when you have an extra sappy piece of wood and should have cleaned the lens a couple of hours early but didn't because it wasn't time yet, and you'll have an urgent need for a new lens...

Keith Winter
07-01-2016, 7:33 AM
That's a good question. I'd say getting it from a reliable source, not ebay, would be a start. Trotec, for example, should be a reliable source.



My bet is that Trotec isn't going to send you cheap stuff. I'd continue using it.

If you are cleaning lenses twice a day then you are probably cleaning them 30 times more than most users, solely due to your usage, and they will have a much shorter lifespan than someone else might get out of theirs. If you are a little too aggressive with your cleaning then I would think you could shorten the lifespan as well, maybe by a lot.

Here is a great resource for the proper technique.
http://www.iiviinfrared.com/resources/optics_handling_cleaning.html

Great advice Gary!

I'd also add that I was told the coating is there to protect your machine and laser tube. If you have a few light scratches on the coating you are ok but if portions of the coating are rubbed through, or heavy scratches, then toss the lens.

Mike Null
07-01-2016, 9:47 AM
Check your lenses frequently. Depending on what you are doing you may have to clean them multiple times in a day, or, just once a week. The point is, checking takes less than a minute and can save in lens cost and ruined materials. In 20 years I've never replaced a lens. (I am the only operator of the machine so that helps)

Do not use Windex or whatever is handy.

Kev Williams
07-01-2016, 12:00 PM
Yes, you can use Windex...

MSDS sheets

Zeiss lens cleaner
Isopropyl Alcohol, 4-6%
Water, 94-96%

Uvex lens cleaner:
2-Butoxyethanol, less than 6% (a form of ethylene glycol)
no other ingredients listed, likely water

Leader lens cleaning fluid
Water, 88-95%
secret ingredient, 5-10% (likely alcohol)
2nd secret ingredient, less than .1%
sodium bicarb, less than .1%
anti static & fog additives less than 1%...

Windex
.5 to 1.5% 2-Butoxyethanol, .5 to 1.5%
.5 to 1.5% Ethylene glycol hexyl ether
1 to 5% Isopropyl alcohol
60-100% water

Fantastik
1 to 5% of each:
Benzyl alcohol
Sodium C14-17 Alkyl Sec Sulfonate
Diisopropanolamine
Ethyleneglycol Monohexylether

--Notice there's nothing different about Windex than 'lens cleaners'. And Zeiss gets away with charging good money for an ounce of water with a couple of drops of rubbing alcohol in it?
Fantastik's 'C14-17' ingredient is a foaming surfactant, most of the word "Diisopropanalamine" is 'isopropal', and of course, it contains antifreeze...

According to Taryn Williford, (apartmenttherapyc.com) as to what to /not to use on camera lenses-
WRONG: Soapy Solutions
RIGHT: Alcohol-Based Lens Cleaner or a huff of your breath.
When you need a bit of moisture, don't turn to a soapy lens cleaner. It takes too long to dry, attracting even more dust in the process. Instead use a fast-drying alcohol-based cleaner (always applied first to a cloth and not directly to your lens). Or try the proven method many pro photogs stick with: Give it a good huff of breath across the lens.

So it's okay to use you're own breath too. And how bad can a soft, clean 100% cotton swab be to use?
Fantastik's only 'bad' ingredient is the foaming surfactant, and according to the above, only because it doesn't dry as fast...

The funny thing is, I can melt acrylic with alcohol, yet it's thee recommended cleaner for lenses.

I rest my case. :)

Mike Null
07-01-2016, 1:27 PM
Kev

You shouldn't even use Windex on your eyeglasses.

Gary Hair
07-01-2016, 2:12 PM
--Notice there's nothing different about Windex than 'lens cleaners'.

I know that Windex leaves a residue on glass that makes sandblast resist difficult to stick. I have no idea what it is, but there is something in it that leaves this residue. I'll continue to use the "expensive" cleaner - over the 10 years I've been doing this, I have spent a whopping $30 on lens cleaner and tissues, that's much cheaper than one lens, even a cheap Chinese lens.

Mike Null
07-01-2016, 4:43 PM
I just bought new eyeglasses and they specifically advised against using Windex as it removes a coating on the lens. I'll take their word for it. No new lenses in 20 years indicates that I must be doing something right.

Raphael Weil
07-01-2016, 5:47 PM
Zeiss lens cleaner
Isopropyl Alcohol, 4-6%
Water, 94-96%

Is that really all that is? Can easily make that ourselves than. so 99% Isopropyl diluted to 4-6% of the solution? No problem.

Btw when one of these websites sells you a lens to replace a Trotec, how hard is it to fit it in Trotec's little holder? Just glued in there?

Bert Kemp
07-01-2016, 8:57 PM
All this stuff about alcohol to clean lens I thought acetone was the recommended cleaner and thats pretty cheap.

Keith Winter
07-02-2016, 1:47 PM
All this stuff about alcohol to clean lens I thought acetone was the recommended cleaner and thats pretty cheap.

Acetone can destroy your lens coating if allowed to soak for a long time. Only use sparingly if you have a very bad spot you cannot get off with other less agressive cleaners.