Dead ULS VL200

[Lee DeRaud]

Spent about 2.5 hours vector-cutting MDF this afternoon, everything normal. Finished that job and was trying to cut some cardstock to see if the drawing I had done would hang together in one piece. Lo and behold, it got halfway through and the laser just faded away to nothing: you could see the cut getting weaker and weaker. Switched back to the MDF settings, worked fine. So I'm trying intermediate speed/power combinations to see if there's something about vectoring at the (much faster) cardstock setting that it doesn't like, as this was the first time I'd used the new tube at anything except full-power dead-slow MDF cutting.

And suddenly the motion system is making horrible noises, no movement, no laser beam. I killed power to everything, laser, computer, the works. Brought everything back up. Works normally for a few minutes (except no beam), then the same noises while it's re-homing, a big thump, and the whole unit goes dead: it had shut itself off. Reboot the computer, check the fuses on the laser (ok), can't get it to power back up. (Note: that model ULS is very...virtual, for lack of a better word. You can't even power it up unless there's a booted computer on the other end of the USB cable.) Odd bit is, the driver at the computer end thinks the laser is still talking to it: it goes through a re-home cycle when you "power up", but nothing is actually happening at the other end and if you hit power-off at the driver end, it ignores it.

I'm thinking either power supply or CPU. There's a USB hub board at the laser end of the cable, but I suspect it's powered by the USB itself and that's all the computer is talking to: if you unplug the USB, the driver notices and complains.

Current short-term plan is to pull the covers and make sure there's nothing obviously wrong with the mechanical part of the motion system, reseat all the internal cabling, and see what if anything changes. My real issue at the moment is the documentation: it goes into excruciating detail on how to change out components (like the CPU and power supply), but zero info on how to test either one. I can put a voltmeter on the P/S outputs, but I don't know how 'smart' it is and if it will show dead because either there's no load on it or it hasn't been told it to turn on.

Any thoughts? I'm really just killing time until I can talk to someone Monday...

[Bert Kemp]

My thought is why does everything go haywire late FRiday night on the weekend. Then You have to wait 2 days to get help from the Co.

[Kev Williams]

What scares me is that your 'dead' machine is still talking to your computer. That just screams 'bad controller' or motherboard or whatever is actually in control of your machine...

But-- I feel your pain... After continually telling everyone I've only had one major breakdown since 1981 with all the equipment I have, and have ever owned, I had my second one Thursday afternoon, when my IS7000 just stopped working. I was engraving 3-up 8 x12 Rowmark signs. Ran the first 3, then a second 3, and as the machine fired the motor for the third 3, it just sat there. And like yours, the controller was still feeding the joystick the coordinates, but nothing was happening. I powered down, and that was the end, no nothing after that. Dead controller. And my rep tells me a brand new one is $6 large... ouch. And normally he's pretty good at fixing this kind of stuff, but he's having no luck with mine...

Hope you have better luck! :)

[Lee DeRaud]

What scares me is that your 'dead' machine is still talking to your computer. That just screams 'bad controller' or motherboard or whatever is actually in control of your machine...Yeah, there are two boards in that machine, a USB hub and a CPU. I suspect the USB hub has just enough smarts on it to trigger a relay to enable the P/S and power up everything else. That ain't happening, and it's pretty hard to tell what else is wrong until I can get the P/S to light up.

Haven't had coffee or walked the dogs yet...more later.

[Ruben Salcedo]

It sounds like a power supply, but I'm not 100% sure since you said there is indication of the machine talking with the computer.

I had a power supply problem like 3 years ago, I have the same laser model as you... when mine went it made a sound like a micro explosion, with mine it happen at the time I wanted to plug it in for the first time in a new location I've move to, I was blaming the wall receptacle but when I call Universal I was told that for sure was the PS and it was just about to happen one way or another, it appears that this particular model originally come with a weaker PS that it was common problem, he said that I will be getting a better and more robust PS that it will last longer, anyways it was the PS and it cost about $600.00 at the time.

[Lee DeRaud]

It sounds like a power supply, but I'm not 100% sure since you said there is indication of the machine talking with the computer.

I had a power supply problem like 3 years ago, I have the same laser model as you... when mine went it made a sound like a micro explosion, with mine it happen at the time I wanted to plug it in for the first time in a new location I've move to, I was blaming the wall receptacle but when I call Universal I was told that for sure was the PS and it was just about to happen one way or another, it appears that this particular model originally come with a weaker PS that it was common problem, he said that I will be getting a better and more robust PS that it will last longer, anyways it was the PS and it cost about $600.00 at the time.That's the direction I'm leaning too...but seriously, $600 for a 48V 10.5A DC power supply?!? Even accounting for the remote-on/off circuitry, that's 2X-3X what I'd expect.

(Data point: when I was building my CNC router, $675 covered the P/S, four big stepper motors, and a Gecko 540 4-axis controller.)

[Lee DeRaud]

It sounds like a power supply, but I'm not 100% sure since you said there is indication of the machine talking with the computer.One interesting tidbit from looking at it this morning with the covers off: as near as I can tell, there's no 5V output from the P/S, just 48V. Unless the CPU is deriving 5V from the 48V in some rather non-obvious way, it's powered at least in part by the 5V it gets from the USB: there's an LED on the CPU that turns from flashing to solid and back as you cycle "power" on the VCP. Also, the control signals that turn the P/S on/off appear to come from the CPU, not the USB hub.

[AL Ursich]

Any electrolytic capacitors bulging? On the Power supply board?

http://badcaps.net/index.php?pageid=causes

[Ruben Salcedo]

Yep, $600.00, I thought it was high price... but what could you do?


I don't know what the flashing lights mean, I did not had the opportunity to see them since I didn't plugged my laser for the thought that the receptacle where the problem for my PS going out, although it was plugged to my computer with the USB cable, I don't remember seeing any lights flashing or anything, have you tried unplugging the USB cable to see if the lights goes away?, that is a mystery to me.

[Lee DeRaud]

Any electrolytic capacitors bulging? On the Power supply board?

http://badcaps.net/index.php?pageid=causes Not a power supply "board", a power supply "brick", like a computer power supply with a different form factor.
I'd have to remove it and open it up to see, not worth the trouble unless the ULS guy needs a picture to diagnose it. It's not like I'm at all tempted to try to fix it myself: I don't do analog.

[Lee DeRaud]

Yep, $600.00, I thought it was high price... but what could you do?


I don't know what the flashing lights mean, I did not had the opportunity to see them since I didn't plugged my laser for the thought that the receptacle where the problem for my PS going out, although it was plugged to my computer with the USB cable, I don't remember seeing any lights flashing or anything, have you tried unplugging the USB cable to see if the lights goes away?, that is a mystery to me.Yes, they do. Like I said in post #7, I'm beginning to think the CPU uses the USB as its power supply: it gets 48V from the P/S, but (I think) it just passes that through the stepper controller chips to power the motors. (Except Z-axis, which has an additional 48V and ground direct from the P/S, but that's a much bigger motor.)

[Ruben Salcedo]

Then most likely is going to be the power supply, the good about it is that is very easy to replace, the bad part is that is not cheap. :eek:

[Lee DeRaud]

Then most likely is going to be the power supply, the good about it is that is very easy to replace, the bad part is that is not cheap. :eek:Looks like it...I'll report back after I talk to them tomorrow.

[Dave Hutton]

All is not lost though - bear with me for a moment. I have a very fine Melco embroidery machine made in USA a and built like a tank. Made in 2000.

One day a similar story to Lee's , all went a bit wrong, upon restart nothing except an error message. It was diagnosed as power supply - cost £1600:eek: but sadly no longer available, so bad news as they cost £12k to get another plastic version of the machine (probably better mind you!)

as luck would have it another identical 1997 model becomes available for £1000 so I bought that 'sold as seen' on the basis that I could use the power supply and any other parts I might need. Delivery two weeks.

in the mean time I got talking to another machine mechanic who said ' why not get the power supply fixed?' Gave me an address, I contacted them , Sent it off and it came back, still not working, "no problem send it again" which I did.

so the other machine arrives, is installed and lo and behold it works perfectly :-) mechanic goes and ups arrives literally ten minutes later with power supply, 10 minutes to plug it in and who hoo works perfectly. All for a cost of £300 plus sending it.

so I now have two of these work horses, both working a treat.

so it's possible with the right man to actually repair a power supply for decent money. To be honest they look pretty similar to those in the laser - big goldy coloured metal box with a few connectors.

worth searching out these experts - the Melco suppliers had never heard of that being possible and had just junked a machine with a similar issue.

hope this helps - might be worth a look.

dj

[Lee DeRaud]

All is not lost though - bear with me for a moment. I have a very fine Melco embroidery machine made in USA a and built like a tank. Made in 2000.
...
so it's possible with the right man to actually repair a power supply for decent money. To be honest they look pretty similar to those in the laser - big goldy coloured metal box with a few connectors.Might come to that, depending what ULS says. I doubt availability will be an issue: the one in there now is US-sourced rather than Chinese. (That's both good and bad...it may explain some of the pricing.) I'll certainly check their website, keeping in mind that ULS may have modded it before installation.

[Kev Williams]

What's this guy's name, he may be getting the power supply to my IS7000. My rep says $6000 new, which means roughly $2800 for re-man from Gravograph. I'm still hoping my rep can find the problem...

As for a $600 power supply, for a new one for my LS900 I was quoted $3300, but 'fortunately' they'd just barely finished rebuilding one, which I got the next day for $1700 including shipping. Machine's been fine ever since...

Hey, the machines and their power supplies are built in France for these machines only, whaddya gonna do? Gotta have the machine to make a living...

[Bert Kemp]

Lee ULS is just down the road from me if there's anything I can do to help you out with them just holler. Sometimes a person staring them in the face works faster then email and phone calls:D


Might come to that, depending what ULS says. I doubt availability will be an issue: the one in there now is US-sourced rather than Chinese. (That's both good and bad...it may explain some of the pricing.) I'll certainly check their website, keeping in mind that ULS may have modded it before installation.

[Lee DeRaud]

Lee ULS is just down the road from me if there's anything I can do to help you out with them just holler. Sometimes a person staring them in the face works faster then email and phone calls:DSent them an email this morning...they got back to me in about two hours, probably a lot less than that depending on when they show up for work.

Turns out the connection between the CPU and P/S is an 'inhibit' rather than an 'enable', so unhooking it should allow the P/S to light up on its own. Tried that, and the fan doesn't even come on, much less any voltage at the outputs. So it's either well and truly fried, or at least the inhibit circuit is shorted closed. Waiting to see what comes next.

I found an outfit just five miles from the house that specializes in repairing power supplies, everything from commodity PC units to supplies for medical equipment. Unless the ULS replacement turns out to be an exchange deal like the laser tube, I may try getting this one fixed first. Worst case, the machine is down for an extra week or two, but it's not like I'm running a business off it.

[Ruben Salcedo]

No, you don't need to send the PS, you can keep it as a souvenir, here is mine. :p (...or fix it)


323653

[Bill George]

I am NOT an electronics person who knows circuits well but I have worked on and repaired things I knew little about. Yes I have an electrical background and was active in ham (amateur ) radio when you had to know something to pass the test. I would pull the cover off and look for fried parts or capacitors that have bulged or blew up. You would also be surprised at the number of bad solder connections I have found and fixed. The prices they are charging are almost bank robbery tactics.

[Lee DeRaud]

No, you don't need to send the PS, you can keep it as a souvenir, here is mine. :p (...or fix it)Well, that looks familiar.

Just dropped mine off at the repair place: they're quoting $125 flat-rate to repair that size supply, no charge if not repairable. Current ULS price is $425, for $300 it's worth a shot at getting the old one back up and running.

Regarding that price, I think you got a new one (made by Meanwell) when they were transitioning from the original XPiQ supply. The way the ULS guy worded it, that $425 is for a remanufactured Meanwell unit, which is what you'll probably get if your current one dies.

[Lee DeRaud]

I am NOT an electronics person who knows circuits well but I have worked on and repaired things I knew little about. Yes I have an electrical background and was active in ham (amateur ) radio when you had to know something to pass the test. I would pull the cover off and look for fried parts or capacitors that have bulged or blew up. You would also be surprised at the number of bad solder connections I have found and fixed.I took a quick look before I took it to the repair guy, but nothing jumped out at me. Lacking schematics, I wouldn't have been able to do anything about it anyway.
The prices they are charging are almost bank robbery tactics.True that. Was the 48V 12A unit I had in my CNC router as good as the similar-size ULS supply? Probably not. Did it have the fancy external on/off control? No. Then again, it was only $120 retail. But for $600, I'd expect something a bit more bullet-proof than the apparently fragile one it came with.

[Bill George]

When I did my CNC milling machine controls change over, everything went in the dumpster except the stepper motors and mounts. I built my own power supply and used Gecko driver boards and DeskCNC for the controller. It worked good enough, made a few things and moved on to a purchased CNC router. I have built a few ham radio PS units and built a lot of HeathKits. I wonder how many people remember them?

[Ruben Salcedo]

I don't remember there been an option of a remanufactured PS, I even made a comment of been expensive, the response was that I was getting a much better, more robust PS than the original one, perhaps I did get a brand new one... now $425.00 sounds a bargain to me... $125.00? a gift, hopefully they will be able to fix it for you.

Good luck.

[Paul Phillips]

The prices they are charging are almost bank robbery tactics.
It doesn't make sense to me why manufacturers want to gouge people so bad on their parts, (see my recent thread on the ULS laser tubes going up!) if it was a reasonable price I wouldn't mind paying it, I understand they need to mark it up a bit to make some profit but what is a reasonable amount of markup? 40%-50%? From an end user standpoint I have no idea, certainly anything above 100% seems too much IMO. I dealt with this when I needed to start replacing worn parts on my Multicam CNCs, I had to have a spindle repaired and they wanted about $3000. to repair it, I found the NA distributor and went directly to them and found I could save over $1000, since then I have relied on the internet to help me track down the manufacturer parts and save myself a lot of money, probably a result of the internet age that allows people to do that, but companies should get wise to the fact that people know how to use google!? :eek:

[Lee DeRaud]

Ok, quick update...

The repair guy is having no end of problems: it's one of those "fix A which uncovers problem B, lather rinse repeat" deals, and he's on his third round of waiting for parts to arrive. I went ahead and got a "new" power supply from ULS, installed it, and it works. That's the good news.

The bad news is, there is apparently a short somewhere in the laser tube itself. If it's plugged in, the P/S goes into overcurrent shutdown mode every time you shut the lid and the CPU enables the tube. Not clear if the old P/S fried the tube when it let go, or the (nearly new) tube let go and fried the P/S. At least the tube is still under warranty, in theory anyway. I'm working with my distributor to verify
the diagnosis, we'll see how it goes from there.

Regarding the new power supply: $425 from ULS, including an adapter cable that probably cost $2 in parts and 1/2 hour of labor to fabricate. Unless there were some unobvious and major custom ULS-specific mods, the supply is available for $130, quantity 1, from a US-based distributor. Draw your own conclusions about how much they cost ULS in production quantities.

[Mike Null]

Lee

You have one of the sharpest ULS guys in the US not far from you. His name is Mike Mckenzie. https://www.cemlasers.com/pg--8--Contact-Us.aspx

[Lee DeRaud]

Lee

You have one of the sharpest ULS guys in the US not far from you. His name is Mike Mckenzie. https://www.cemlasers.com/pg--8--Contact-Us.aspxYup, he's who I'm dealing with...bought the laser from him in early 2005.

[Lee DeRaud]

Humped the whole machine down to Mike's shop yesterday, and verified that the tube had a short in it somewhere. ULS has shipped a warranty replacement, which should be here tomorrow. I'll report back on how it goes, but the machine ran fine with Mike's tube installed.

As per Murphy's Law, got home from there to find email from the repair guy that he finally got the old P/S up and running...I guess I'll put it up for sale in the classified section. If that doesn't work I guess I have a spare, for whatever that's worth.

[Ruben Salcedo]

See, I told you that the cost of the PS would be $600.00 :eek:


Can't you return the one from UL?

[Lee DeRaud]

Can't you return the one from UL?Meh. I think that would be tempting Murphy's Law just one time too many, especially not knowing what died first, the P/S or the tube.

If the tube shorted and took down the P/S, it means the over-current protection on the old supply didn't work, which means the repaired one might have blown up again when I installed it. At least now I know the O/C circuit works on the new one. It's equally likely the old P/S died and took down the tube, which would certainly make me nervous in the future.

As it stands, I'm getting what I paid for (give or take the reasonableness of the price on the new P/S), and a set of parts that I trust and have a good warranty. And I certainly can't complain about ULS's customer service: they're shipping the new tube next-day-air.

[Lee DeRaud]

New tube is in...everything works now. Headed for the UPS store to return the dead tube.

Kudos to Mike McKenzie at CEM and the support staff at ULS.