How to tighten a chuck inside a bowl?

[Ben Pierce]

I've been turning with faceplates for years and have finally come to see the benefits of using chucks (sometimes). I'm working with a hurricane chuck at the moment but thinking of buying a Supernova 2 and the long nosed jaw set. I turn almost every bowl green, so I have to remount later. If I want to hold the inside of a bowl with the chuck, either by tenon or recess, how can I tighen the chuck when it's "buried" inside the bowl? Is there a wrench with a 90 degree angle available?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Ben, when I go to finish turn a rough out, I first have to true up the tenon. I have a Talon chuck and normally use the #2 jaws - anyway, I open the jaws as far as they go and then use it as a jam chuck so I can true the tenon. After that I finish turn the outside of the bowl, then the inside. When it comes time to remove the tenon, then you have a number of other options - donut chuck, jam chuck or vacuum chuck.

[Roger Chandler]

I've been turning with faceplates for years and have finally come to see the benefits of using chucks (sometimes). I'm working with a hurricane chuck at the moment but thinking of buying a Supernova 2 and the long nosed jaw set. I turn almost every bowl green, so I have to remount later. If I want to hold the inside of a bowl with the chuck, either by tenon or recess, how can I tighen the chuck when it's "buried" inside the bowl? Is there a wrench with a 90 degree angle available?

Wrong process, Ben... You should leave the tenon on after rough turning green wood, and then use a jam chuck in your chuck and a live center in the tail stock to true up the tenon on the roughout. Once the tenon is trued up after the blank has dried, then you mount it in the chuck again, and final turn the bowl. You do not tighten a chuck inside a bowl for the most part........it would have to be a pretty small bowl to do so, and if warped, the hold might not be that good anyway.

Many styles of jam chucks can be used....even a flat piece of plywood with a piece of carpet pad glued on it. It will give you enough grip to drive the bowl, but for safety, ALWAYS use the tail stock and live center for support!

Looks like Steve and I were replying at the same time to your post........see the similar responses! ;)

[Ben Pierce]

So mounting w/ the chuck inside the bowl is not standard practice. Ok, got it (it didn't seem very intuitive). So the tenon is trued up while the bowl is held by a jam chuck, the bowl is re-chucked by the tenon, and both the inside and outside are finished. Then the bowl must be re-mounted in a jam chuck or vacuum chuck to remove the tenon (or clean it up and turn it into a foot)?

[Roger Chandler]

So mounting w/ the chuck inside the bowl is not standard practice. Ok, got it (it didn't seem very intuitive). So the tenon is trued up while the bowl is held by a jam chuck, the bowl is re-chucked by the tenon, and both the inside and outside are finished. Then the bowl must be re-mounted in a jam chuck or vacuum chuck to remove the tenon (or clean it up and turn it into a foot)?


Yep! ;) That pretty much sums it up!

[Steve Schlumpf]

Yup... that about covers it. :D

[Mark Greenbaum]

I have on occasion left the chuck installed and used a cushion (mouse pad) and brought the tailstock up to the center point of the tenon to re-true the tenon. Then reverse the bowl and finish cut the inside, and most of the outside. Jam chuck from the inside and remove the tenon, create the foot and finish up. It's the way my mentors have taught me, and it seem to work well enough. The very small nib that I cannot remove while the tailstock is in place can be carefully chiseled off, and sanded by hand.

[Thomas Canfield]

One minor thing not mentioned is to be sure and leave a center point in the original tenon to use when jamming the piece to true up the tenon. On larger bowls, I find that it is best to only true up the tenon and a couple of inches outside the tenon and then mount in chuck to finish truing up the outside. I will use the live center inside to hold pressure against the chuck and work from the headstock side but have a firm grip on the larger piece and be able to withstand the rough cuts. I will also leave the live center in the interior when starting to true up the inside just for a little more security.

[Aaron Craven]

... and the painful lesson I'm learning... leave enough material on the bottom to create your foot... I keep running out of wood to turn away on the bottom and have trouble removing my tenon during the last step because I'm too close to the tail stock.

[Russell Neyman]

What about Cole-type soft jaws? Of course, much of this process is determined by the shape of the bowl and which side (inside or outside) can be held.

For what it's worth, my process is (a) using a faceplate, turn the outside of the bowl, creating both a bottom lip and a mounting tenon; (b) after re-mounting the bowl with a four-jaw chuck onto the tenon, I turn the inside; (c) reversing it again, I mount it onto a chuck with Cole soft jaws, turning off the tenon and leaving the bottom lip.

It should be noted that engaging the tailstock until you're down to the smallest nub is the safest way to turn off a tenon with soft jaws.

There's some good advice on getting the alignment true during the reversing process in the "Your Best Nifty Shop Top" sticky.

[Ben Pierce]

My process so far has been to eschew the chuck entirely, and turn the bowl inside and out on a faceplate. Then to the jam chuck for finishing the foot and turning away the waste from the faceplate screws. Of course, the main problem is the limitation of foot size dictated by the faceplate. Doesn't work for small bowls. I'm learning. :)

[Jeffrey J Smith]

If I want to hold the inside of a bowl with the chuck, either by tenon or recess, how can I tighen the chuck when it's "buried" inside the bowl?
Ben - I have, on occasion been there. I often turn a small recess in the interior of a roughed bowl before reversing to finish turn the outside and true up the tenon. The process seems to work well enough for RR, so I figure it's good enough for me. It is very quick and secure and does not require me to change the chuck or create a jam (basically, I'm a little on the lazy side). I generally use it on large open bowl forms. I use Oneway chucks - both Strongholds and Talons. Tower jaws will get you deeper into the vessel, but, depending on the vessel regular jaws work fine.
If you're using a chuck with a closed back and you've turned the recess too deep and the rim does not allow direct access to the keyhole, you'd need an angled or bent key (Vicmark makes one http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=615, don't know if others offer anything) to tighten the jaws in the recess. Using the largest jaws you have available will allow you to place the recess as close to the rim as possible. Since the Oneways have an open back, I often move the scroll by hand until the jaws are snug to the recess, then give it a gentle bump with a large, long screwdriver through the key hole to tighten (I doubt that the folks at Oneway would endorse this practice). It doesn't take very much pressure to secure the piece with a recess, but it is good practice to bring up the tailstock for safety's sake before turning the outside.
There's more than one way to get there.

[Mark Greenbaum]

One minor thing not mentioned is to be sure and leave a center point in the original tenon to use when jamming the piece to true up the tenon. On larger bowls, I find that it is best to only true up the tenon and a couple of inches outside the tenon and then mount in chuck to finish truing up the outside. I will use the live center inside to hold pressure against the chuck and work from the headstock side but have a firm grip on the larger piece and be able to withstand the rough cuts. I will also leave the live center in the interior when starting to true up the inside just for a little more security.

My mentor uses a golf ball on the live center to not mar the wood, and add a bit of resiliency to the cuts. I think he said not to use a liquid center ball, but don't quote me on that one.

[John Grace]

You'll find there's as many methods used and touted as different lathe tools for us to buy. Personally, I like to use a glue block tenon on the back side of my bowls. They don't shrink or warp as the rest of the bowl drys and I can readily mark the tenon with where to remount back on the jaws after the rough turned bowl has completed drying. We all find what makes us comfortable...good luck.

[Ben Pierce]

Jeffrey- thank you, that's exactly the tool I was looking for but it doesn't appear that there's one on the market for the Hurricane chuck. It uses a square wrench rather than a hex bit; I'm not sure what size offhand. I'll measure it and if it's a standard size perhaps I can find a non-OEM wrench that will do the job.

I may need to add another chuck to my tool collection. I have roughed out several bowls at this point with a recess inside (just a ridge in the inside of the bowl), and it would be nice to finish them the way I planned to, mainstream or not.

[Aaron Craven]

What about Cole-type soft jaws?

Ah... My wallet is trying to resist my strong desire to shell out for a set of Cole jaws... Want want want... :)

[Jeramie Johnson]

Ah... My wallet is trying to resist my strong desire to shell out for a set of Cole jaws... Want want want... :)
I have a cole and longworth. Both work very well. There are many plans out there on making your own longworth style. Since I never make the same style bowl, the adjustment of the cole and longworth come in handy verses having tons of jams. I have made a few jams that taper, so they can be used on multiple sizes.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

[QUOTE=Ben Pierce;2480176]it doesn't appear that there's one on the market for the Hurricane chuck. It uses a square wrench rather than a hex bit;

Ben - you might be able to locate a square drive that fits a standard socket drive and use it in combination with a 'universal joint' type drive. I only use the procedure I outlined when absolutely necessary, but it works.

As for the process you're using that many seem to want you to change, you might want to investigate Richard Raffan's books and DVD's. He describes the process quite well. I've found it to be very useful, when re-turning dried blanks. I stick the warped tenon in the chuck and true the rim, then turn a very shallow recess to reverse the bowl. From there I can confidently hold the piece to finish the outside and cleanup the tenon in preparation for completing the inside without needing to change chucks or jaws. Once in a while I find, like you, that the recess falls just beyond the point where I can get the standard key into the chuck, so a work-around is necessary.

Just keep in mind that safety is key and make certain you've got a good hold on the piece before turning.

[Geoff Whaling]

Ben, Both face plates & chucks have their plusses & minuses. I use both depending upon my mood & the project. Faceplates are far “safer” for suspect punky / spalted wood or blanks with other character traits like voids, bark inclusions, cracks etc. - just my opinion.

Your safety should dictate which method to use on any project.

The depth & diameter of a bowl will dictate foot size, hence the available tenon / recess size. Glue blocks (generally) aren't a good option for green turning. Smaller face plates are available if you wish to stick to face plate turning & reduce the size of the foot, ;) Vermec make a particularly good face plate system that uses a standard Vicmarc chuck insert, & have 3" to 8 " face plates available. All can be fitted with a removable wood screw as well. http://vermec.tripod.com/PDFs/faceplates.pdf I'm not sure what offerings you have from US suppliers.

As others have said there are many ways you can modify the turning process to suit your bowl projects, but if you are new to using chucks in expansion, into a recess, or contraction mode, onto a tenon, be aware that you must leave sufficient cross sectional area of the wood in the circular tenon or the donut shaped ring around the recess to resist the shear forces created while turning & with recesses the expansion force of the chuck itself. To many turners attempt to turn with dicey tenons / recesses by using undersized jaws (i.e. 2") with the jaws opened to max dia, when they should really be using 3" or 4" jaw sets on their chuck for larger bowls on a tenon. Or vice versa they open a jaw set to wide into a recess leaving only a small cross sectional area of wood when they could easily have left more. A 3" tenon has over twice the cross sectional are of a 2" tenon; 4" is 4 times that of 2". Far "safer" to err on the larger size. As always it’s a trade off – design aesthetics Vs safety.

Next thing turning bowls on chucks is a little different than using face plates. Face plates tend to offer a larger “contact area” for the mounting so are (probably) much more stable for turning larger bowls - again just my opinion.

You may notice that you may get unexplained catches initially on the rim etc when converting to a turning with a chuck, especially if you are using green wood and relatively small tenons. The wood will move as you turn, the gripping power of the chuck changes (weakens) as the wood compresses from the jaw pressure & the turning activity. That wood movement can allow the bowl to move, wobble & even weaken the tenon / recess ring from vibration etc. So stop regularly and re-check / re-tighten the jaws during the turning process until you get familiar with chuck jaws. Its a good idea to incorporate that checking routine in any case.

For “twice turning” from green to a rough out for drying, then remounting to finish the dried bowl, many turners leave a recess inside and a tenon outside to give them two options. Of course some start between centres to create the true surface for the face plate or tenon etc for a chuck, but in any case leaving a centre is very helpful for reversing. Coring bowls usually means that the bowl has to be held in some manner until a face plate or chuck can be fitted.

Check out Glen Lucas’ or Mike Mahoney’s bowl turning DVD’s – both are gifted & excellent production bowl turners. Richard Raffan employs some rather unique tricks of "chucking into a detail" which will be left on the finished bowl.