Glue for a Gate

[Richard Line]

I'm building a gate for our new fence. It is using western red cedar, the joinery for the gate's frame is mortise and tenon, with dovetails used for the diagonal brace. There will most likely be pegs in the m&t joints. This is in the NorthWest, so it will be wet all winter and dry almost all summer - a lot of movement. What glue would be good for this - titebond 2, titebond 3, polyurathane, 4 ?

[Chuck Hart]

I have had good luck with Titebond 3. I live in the Northwest also. The thinner viscosity bothered me at first but it has held on a number of outdoor projects.

[Jamie Buxton]

I've occasionally had odd results with Titebond III. A joint that seemed to glue up correctly just popped apart. Dunno why.

I'd use epoxy. Very water resistant. Long assembly time. West Systems 105.

[bridger berdel]

I live in the desert, so different conditions, but I use polyurethane construction adhesive- in a caulking gun tube, basically top of the line liquid nails type adhesive- and have had very good results.

[ken hatch]

Just a suggestion.....Forget the dovetail and glue instead use MT's with robust draw bores for all the joints.

ken

[Daniel Rode]

+1

Just a suggestion.....Forget the dovetail and glue instead use MT's with robust draw bores for all the joints.

Using M&T with draw bore pins will hold tight across the seasons. Glue is secondary since this is primarily a mechanical fastening.

[Malcolm McLeod]

.. with draw bore pins...

I built similar cedar gate (...twice, but that's another story) and arbor, and I would be skeptical of draw bore in western red cedar (at least what is available here). Admittedly, I've not tried it, but it just seems too soft. I'd be willing to bet that the end-grain would simply crush and you'd lose any mechanical compression in the joint...? The same may apply for pegged joints as well. I would use them decoratively, but they would not be the primary fastener.

Dan/Ken, sorry to be a burr under the saddle, but my advice is to use a really good glue joint.

[Richard Line]

Thanks for the good advice. Of course it is a mix. What would any of use expect from a group of woodworkers. :) The dovetail joints are more of a timber framing joint, a single large dovetail on the ends of the diagonal strut that is half lapped into the mating pieces of the frame. I agree with Malcolm on the ability of the WRC to stand up to the compression of a draw bore pin. I'm still thinking of a combination of pins and glue. The pins to help joint stability and the glue to help seal the joint areas from water intrusion.

[Jeff Ranck]

I'd also go with polyurethane glue if you need to use glue.

[Kent A Bathurst]

100% WRC [except post caps]. Glued M+T joints [in the gates, for example] used T-III.

6 years old. Still looks the same. Except the non-varnished arbor and fence have gone gray, of course. These were taken on a rainy day, so the streaks on the arbor and fence are water.

Glued & pegged M+T gate joints are just ducky.

FWIW - Gate and post caps varnish is 7 coats Epifanes. The large top members of the arbor are roughsawn WRC and they darkened with the rain. The corbels are scaled-down matches to the corbels on the house's front porch - they were machined, so the rain affected them differently.


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[Brian Holcombe]

Asolutely gorgeous!

[Jeff Ranck]

Beautiful. Back to the original concern about pegging MT joints in cedar, if you are worried that cedar is too soft and will just elongate the pegged holes, perhaps reduce the offset in the tenon, that way it won't pull so tight to crush the fibers on the outside of the mortise. Enough to help mechanically keep the joint tight but not enough elongate the hole.

[Richard Line]

Kent, great work on the gate, fence, arbor, et al. My gate won't measure up to your standard.

Jeff, I have some experience with draw boring cedar in a bench I build. I think cedar is too soft for draw boring. I'll just peg the MT joints and maybe use 2 pegs, at angles to each other, in the dove tail joints (dove tail the pegs) that should keep them from lifting out of the mortice.

Thanks to all that have help with my worries.

[Pat Barry]

My suggestion would be to get some high qualty non-staining deck screws and couple that with the best polyurethane construction adhesive, not Titebond.

[george wilson]

They use Gorilla glue repairing outdoor furniture for the numerous benches in Williamsburg.

I don't care for it because it is no stronger than a styrofoam cup when you pare off the foamy residue.(It is like styrofoam to cut off). But,I guess they know what they are doing in the millwork shop. Plus,they use West System epoxys.

[Daniel Rode]

I'd suggest doing what Kent did :)

The results speak for themselves. Very nice!

[Mike Henderson]

I've used epoxy, TB III and Gorilla glue outdoors and all have held up well.

Mike