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View Full Version : One RF 31 style mill drill set up for mixed wood and metal working… (long post)



ian maybury
10-14-2015, 11:41 AM
Having put up and/or partcipated in several threads over a couple of years on the currently pretty unsatisfactory situation regarding the availability of decent quality new woodworking drill presses i in the end plumped for an RF31 style round column mill drill bought from Axminster Tools in the UK (as their Zx30M) for mixed woodworking and light machining. Care is needed to stay safe given the higher power of machines of this type - power off when changing tooling for example.

I'm nearing the end of setting it up, and thought i'd share where i've ended up (photos below) - guys like Mike Heidrick, Matt Meisner and Keth Outten (hope my memory is correct) had some positive things to say about the genre.
The jury has still got to be out so far as the quality to be expected if you just buy the first RF31 clone found (especially the cheaper ones), but this example has so far proven very decent as budget eastern machines go. A bit rough at the edges (surface finishes and materials are in places marginal - i changed some fasteners and fittings including the locking levers and belts for better quality stuff) but well aligned, quite smooth running, an accurate chuck (about 0.003in runout on a ground steel dowel) and effectively no measurable run out at the quill taper.

It's a very accurate and by woodworking standards heavy duty drill, has a decent work envelope (except that it's more like a bench than a pillar drill) and if not overstressed is capable of producing fairly accurate milling work - maybe within a thou or two on small parts. I have hopes of using it for some overhead routing/slotting/mortising work in wood (it cuts very nicely with an end mill at 2,000rpm). I may switch the motor for a three phase and fit a VFD to give higher speed capability, although that may require balancing the heavy cast iron pulley on the top of the quill first. (or replacing it with a light weight aluminium one)

It's a round column machine which means that if tall work or tooling requires raising and lowering the head (unlike on a square column type) register will be lost. It's customary for the machine tool mob to knock this, but it's not insurmountable with forethought and definitely not an issue on woodwork where very high precision isn't required. It delivers much of the capability (tilting head excluded) and i think a somewhat bigger work envelope than a square column RF45 mill - for 1/3 of the price.

I've just bought a laser edge finder as posted about by Keith O - it should go a long way to resolving this issue on woodworking jobs at least: http://www.lasercenteredgefinder.com The possibly more precise Starret wobbler type may still be needed for fine machining.

The Woodpeckers drill table is from my old drill press, i also had a length of the Incra Track system and stops stashed away and so used them to set up for woodworking jobs. I like the Incra stuff, i have it on both my router table and Hammer saw and it's so far been accurate, useful and reliable.

I wanted a better stop system and a heavier and straighter main fence than the original Woodpeckers one. My DIY Incra Track system based fence accepts their stops and includes their toothed incremental positioning rack - so it's possible to return to previous settings, they can be set up left or right handed, there's fine position adjusting screws, and nothing slips.

The gold anodised Track extrusion is precisely located by dowels and screwed down on to a lapped straight and anodised 20x40mm solid aluminium packing bar (the Track extrusion and the packer form a single flat vertical fence surface), it's also slotted for the socket head screws that lock it down on the table. The aluminium used for the packing bar and the table stiffener (both 20X40mm in my case) needs to be a good strong heat treated grade - something like 6061 T6 in the US.

The Track extrusion and the bar need to be drilled for the dowels while firmly clamped together with the two vertical faces aligned by a cross clamped flat faced block - this to guarantee that they end up precisely aligned to form the required single fence face. The fence slot allows it to angle to about 35 deg on the table if needed. I use a ball driver to reach and tighten the 1/4 UNC socket screws in a milled hole and slot that lock it down in the bottom of the channel in the middle of Track rail.

One nice feature of the Incra stops is that they have a vertically adjustable stop face. This with raising the Track system on the above packing bar means that (as in the general photo) it's possible to use them over a sacrificial piece of 18mm ply or whatever used as a backer panel and to protect the table. (on the table in the last photo) The W/peckers table has a disposable central 1/2in MDF insert, but it seemed a pity to always drill into it - and with the X/Y movement capability of the mill/drill there's no guarantee that e.g. a drill will always be over it anyway.

The Woodpeckers table still accepts their original fence and Incra work clamps as normal http://www.woodpeck.com/wpdrillpresstable.html - it's possible to trap work between the two fences at once, and to then clamp it.
It's also possible to mount the fence to the front of the table to free up extra reach/width capacity - the mill drill has a similar swing to a drill press, but it's not all that far from the column to the chuck centre line.

As a trial of the milling capability I milled up some proper T nuts from key steel (photo) to fit the table tracks for use with the fences and the clamps - i'm not wild about the stock set up which had just 1/4-20 screw heads bearing on the aluminium table T tracks.

Having X/Y positioning on the mill/drill complicates the question of where to locate the woodworking table on the mill table. Mine centres the drill chuck over the centre of the MDF insert when the X/Y table on the mill/drill is at mid travel in both directions. The cut out to the rear of the table (cut on the machine) means that the full Y travel of the mill table is available for some distance each side of centre. (very useful when using the X/Y table for positioning over a mark, or spacing holes width-wise)

The W/peckers table drops into the machine vise, there's an anodised 20x40mm aluminium bar screwed to the bottom of it that it clamps on. (last photo) David Best on FOG while using a slightly different system inspired mounting it in the vise. The socket head screws in the bottom surface of the table act as positioning stops each side of the vise jaws. The bar together with the length of aluminium angle to the front also pulls the table flat. It's not perfect, but is within a few thou.

When the woodworking table is lifted off (a moment's work) the machine vise (bought separately - a genuinely precision one is a critical requirement) is available (or can be removed) for metal milling work. (first photo) It's been a boon to have milling capability again, but getting tooled up is quite expensive. I've probably spent considerably more than half the cost of the machine on this.

Cleaning up is a right PIA after machining work since a lubricant (i've used both camellia oil and WD 40 successfully - the former has the advantage that it doesn't smell and is good for the skin) is advisable for a most milling jobs. Careful choice of the right brushes for cleaning out the T slots pays dividends (nylon bristle and open enough so that chips don't get caught in oily bristles and they will knock clean), next up are a pair of boards that will fit over the left and right wings of the machine table
to prevent chips falling into the T slots.

Time will tell how it all works out, but so far it seems fine. It's proven accurate enough to drill the interference fit holes ( a hair under nominal) for the 6mm dia dowel pins pressed into in the mounting/stiffening bar to locate the Track extrusion using an end mill with blunted side flutes - even a hair of runout would have made that impossible.

It's such a pleasure too to be able to chuck up a good quality brad point and see it run true. Better still when it drills a precisely sized and perfectly clean hole….





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Bruce Page
10-14-2015, 12:38 PM
Very nice Ian, you will discover a lot of uses for a milling machine in the wood shop. I went from a horrible quality Asian drill press to a full size knee mill with digital readouts. I have not tried the laser edge finder on the mill although I have one on my cnc router. I use this type: http://www.penntoolco.com/starrett-edge-finder-827a-10-961-1/?gclid=CLb-m4SxwsgCFQcbaQodi8gIxQ it will get you within .001, or even less if you have a good feel.

Keith Outten
10-14-2015, 12:56 PM
Ian,

Your mill/drill setup is really nice. I haven't taken the time to build a table for mine yet, I normally use a double thickness plywood "T" table that is held in my mill vise. Its become a long term temporary type of situation but it has been serviceable.
I've said many times that I would never trade my little mill/drill for any drill press. The mill is just to valuable in my shop given its capacity to perform so many tasks besides drilling holes accurately.

I designed and built the stand for my mill/drill. Its built from 3" by 3" by 1/2" thick angle iron so the base of the mill bench allows me to swing the head of my mill over the side when I need to drill or mill long pieces by clamping the material to the edge of the stand.

After seeing your table design I'm going to have to make my own in the near term, it looks just to valuable to put it off any longer.

Thanks for the pics.
.

Jim German
10-14-2015, 2:57 PM
I also recently ditched my drill press but instead went for a full up Bridgeport Knee Mill. I got fed up with the short quill travel on my drill press and the inaccuracy of it. I replaced the chuck on the Bridgeport for a nice keyless one, and am thrilled with the accuracy I can get. The bridgeport has a little more than 5" of quill travel, but then you can move the table up almost as easily for however much vertical travel you need. My mill came with a digital read-out (DRO) which for those of you who aren't familiar is a digital LED display that tells you exactly the position of the mill. I've found it to be hugely helpful, you can clamp a door in place and mill a slot in it thats precisely the right length or very accurately drill the holes for a hinge without having to mess with any jigs.

It obviously can also mill metal, which is very useful even if you are just a wood shop. I'm going to mill a miter slot in my bandsaw table (it was cast with a reinforcement for it) and I'm going to make a new fence for the bandsaw.

My mill cost $1500, which isn't much more than a big drill press. New genuine Bridgeports are actually still being made, but they are in the $10k range. Used ones are available all over the place and if as long as it was treated with just a bit of respect it will work beautifully with just a bit of cleanup.

There are only two downsides. The first is that they are big and heavy. Mine weighs about 2200lbs and they take up about twice the width of a drill press. I was able to get mine into my basement without too much difficulty however if you're on the 2nd floor or something I could see it being an issue. The second issue is that the ways need to be lubricated and in a wood shop that means you're going to get sawdust in the oil which will need to be cleaned regularly.


Ian, I've had good luck using kerosene as a lubricant, it works well, is cheap and readily available, doesn't smell bad and evaporates quickly so you don't have to worry about getting it everywhere.

ian maybury
10-14-2015, 4:16 PM
Ta guys, i wasn't sure if it would generate any interest - not everybody goes for the idea of upgrading drilling capability. It's for me so liberating to have even basic milling capability - and that's after the basic of accurate drilling, 500mm (X) x 175mm (Y) travel table positioning and decent (130mm) quill travel.

I have that Starrett edge finder Bruce, the double version with the centre finder on the other end. Hard to beat as you say if you have a good feel. The other option as well as a digital read out would be a power feed - on the X anyway. They seem to be a simple bolt on, but you could spend a lot of money on one of these machines.

You probably didn't miss out on much by building your own cabinet Keith. Axminster (surprisingly) supplied a Harbour Freight item with my machine, and while it works it's very rough for what was enough money. Bolt holes blown with a cutting torch, no shelves inside, odd bits of sheet metal tacked together with weld, and paint thrown on over black oxide iron that hasn't even been degreased so it flakes off if you look at it. Maybe you guys get better ones in the US? I cut down an Ikea flat pack melamine kitchen cabinet to go inside mine so i at least had some shelves. (below, 2nd)

Getting set up has been quite a job, so i can understand how it might take a while to get to it. I found very quickly that if i didn't place the common usage tooling and other stuff close by that getting a job set up was going to run me ragged (back and forwards to another rooom where my tools are), so there was nothing for it but to get stuck in. I bought and modifed a cheap Ikea cabinet (below, 1st) to ensure it wouldn't sag. They do the small stainless steel shelves you can see to the RHS of it for pennies - great for anything that may be a bit oily. The small wood finish cabinet to the left of the machine in the first post is a cheap bookcase from them modified to accommodate their wooden cutlery trays to store drills and similar.

Apart from the tooling I ended up buying a good quality stand and (mid range - not jewelled) Mitutoyo dial gauge for set ups too - the cheap eastern ones have far too much slop/hysteresis as they change direction, and can mislead really badly. Well worth the money.

The last job is to set up dust collection. I have a couple of lengths of 75mm positionable/click together hose (below), and will mount these in a ply disc in the end of a 160mm flexible coming up vertically behind the pillar.

An RF31 is no Bridgeport Jim - in terms of both precision and stiffness/cutting capability. I thought long and hard about the possibility of buying a used one as you say, but they are a good bit more expensive here, have often been mistreated, they need a VFD (three phase) which adds more cost and time, and I'm tight for space and only had one corner between a door and an end wall where the drill press had been. Ta for the tip on the kerosene - there's an odourless version sold here too for running indoor heaters.

Despite not having a Bridgeport I may yet as yourself have a go at (slowly) cutting a mitre slot in the table of my Agazzani bandsaw which doesn't have one either….

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Mike Cutler
10-14-2015, 4:25 PM
Ian

Very nice! What you've done is exactly what I want to do. Even your Mill choice is the same.
I'll watch for further feedback, but I'm certain it will be everything you want and need it to be.
I guess I'll have to get off the stick and order an RF 30, or 31.;)

Chris Padilla
10-14-2015, 5:49 PM
Oooo, this is really nice! I got to use a Bridgeport mill back in college along with some kind of a metal lathe. Handy HANDY machines those are. You can make or fix just about anything with those two machine. Sadly, I have neither in my little 2-car garage-ma-hal but it sure would be nice. I think I could handle my Delta DP being replaced by one of these mills. Hmmm....

Group order, Mike?! LOL!

Jesse Busenitz
10-14-2015, 6:32 PM
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Don't want to hijack the thread but whats the max speed for a chuck? Is a router collet a smaller version of what you use on a mill? I ask as I just got my Wadkin LQ Recessor wired in and its set up with a chuck but I was afraid to stick a router bit in it. The motor is dual speed( I need to check what the actually spindle speed is) 3 phs with a double throw switch to change directions. I'd love to see what you guys do with these things!

ian maybury
10-14-2015, 8:11 PM
It's been a long road to get this far guys. It'd have been nice to have the budget to go for a fancier machine, but that's life and i'm lucky to have got this one. The issue to be careful of if buying one of the various RF31 clones is not to get stuck with a machine with a lot of spindle runout, misalignment or other inaccuracy. I don't know what the risk of this is, and don't know how to guarantee avoiding it either except perhaps to avoid the cheaper ones.

:) We're all outgunned by your Wadkin Jesse - I'm not familiar with the type or how it's set up, but seem to recall that they run very high and fixed or limited RPM choices. Permitted RPM on drill chucks varies enormously depending on the type, but i'd be cautious about exceeding say 2 - 3,000rpm (high end power drill capability) with a typical quality taper mounted manual type unless i knew better. Some keyless chucks go to very high RPM (check with the seller), but drill chucks are generally not reliable holders of milling or routing tools. They have more runout, but more to the point a mill will at times screw itself down into the work out of a drill chuck. Split collets grip much more tightly.

A router collet is pretty much a smaller version of the type of collet used with an ER type milling tool holder as described below, but there are other types also.

The choice usually depends in the first instance on size and type of the female taper in the quill of the machine.

The first basic is probably that if you want to rout or mill you likely need a drawbar or some similar system (e.g. Arboga use a system of C washers instead) to retain the male taper on your chucking/tool holding system in the female taper in the machine quill/spindle. They otherwise tend to come loose and drop down when milling for example - it also happens with drill presses on occasion but much more rarely. e.g. if you get chatter with a large drill that's getting up near it's capacity.

A draw bar is just a steel rod that drops down through a centre bore in the quill/spindle and screws into an M10 or 12 (or imp equivalent) threaded hole in the small end of the male taper on the back end of the tool holder that's being mounted, and has a typically hex head on the other so that it can be tightened. My machine above comes with M10, M12 and 3/8th UNC draw bars. Not sure what's on the Wadkin, but given the quite high speeds (and presuming it doesn't use some unique tool holding system) a taper retention device sounds advisable.

There's differing sorts of tapers used in machine quills. The various sizes of Morse taper are common on UK machines (sizes 2, 3 as on mine above, or sometimes 4MT are common), while US machines like Bridgeports tend to use mostly a steeper angled one named an R8. (there's lots of photos of stuff using both on the websites run by tooling supply places - links below)

Eastern machines are often available with the choice of either, although in the UK (e.g. mine above) they typically have Morse. The benefit of the Morse type in a quill is that there's typically (over here anyway) more chucks and other sorts of tooling about with male Morse tapers that can be mounted in it. The disadvantage is that it takes care and a bit of touch to consistently nip a Morse taper up enough on a mill so that it grips securely, but not so tightly that it jams and requires hard hammering on the end of the drawbar to break it free - which risks damage to spindle bearings. Get it too lose and have the tool spin and it probably ruins the collet and the job.

The final variable is the sort of chucking/tool holding device mounted on the end of the male taper that goes in the quill. We're all familiar with drill chucks, but as above they are not very precise and don't transmit high torques so well. Round shanked tools also can be mounted directly in direct collets as here: http://www.warco.co.uk/105-Collets The page shows Morse, R8 and other types. This is the system i have, it takes up less vertical space, is stiffer, and there's less risk of runout.

Another method is the ER type collet holder, they use collets similar to those in a router but to different dimensions: http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-collet-chucks/262-collet-holder-er-25.html and http://www.warco.co.uk/Collets/303034-er-25-collets-17-piece-set.html These come in a range of sizes (ER 25, 32 etc and lots more - each will handle a different range of tool diameters), and mount in the machine using a Morse or R8 taper. The big advantage of ER chucks is that each collet handles sizes a bit below their nominal diameter too - so they can often handle both imperial and metric sizes. e.g. 10mm and 3/8in

Mill holders are the other major option: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Milling-Cutters/End-Mill-Holders

There's a very nice series of pages here from a US supplier that walk a person through the various tooling and work holding options in a really methodical and more comprehensive step by step/page by page way - including some pros and cons: https://littlemachineshop.com/Info/getting_started.php?Chapter=GS_MiniMill_01.htm&d=0 |2|13 Enco is another well known US supplier in this space. It's generally best not to go for the cheapest options in eastern made tooling (loose tolerances and soft/bad materials) - but stepping up a to a slightly higher and still very reasonable peice point buys very decent stuff indeed.

Larry Copas
10-14-2015, 8:35 PM
I have a Bridgeport which is used for wood quite frequently. Top speed is 2,720 rpm but I run it off a VFD so I could double that speed. I use it all the time with router bits. I hold the router bits with an R8 collet. It does great with straight bits. Not so good with profile bits as it is to slow. I use it to drill for barrel hinges and sometimes to inlet for small jewelry box hinges.

A little table top with walnut inlay. A DRO accurate to .0005 makes for childs play when doing such simple things. It was a perfect fit in no time at all.

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ian maybury
10-15-2015, 4:28 AM
Hi Larry. That's the kind of territory i have in mind heading for - small stuff like boxes with nicely cut details that mix hand and machine work. There's all sorts of capabilities that open up once the move is made beyond a basic drill press. Looks like you have a rotary table on there too.

It quickly becomes a slippery slope in terms of spending versus capability (with creativity in digging up used hardware an important ability) - but machines and tooling are incredibly cheap compared to what it was years ago. I guess the one it's important for anybody contemplating heading down this sort of road to not to lose sight of is that while every machine has definite limits that even a minor step up brings all sorts of new capability...

Jim German
10-15-2015, 7:26 AM
It quickly becomes a slippery slope in terms of spending versus capability (with creativity in digging up used hardware an important ability) - but machines and tooling are incredibly cheap compared to what it was years ago. I guess the one it's important for anybody contemplating heading down this sort of road to not to lose sight of is that while every machine has definite limits that even a minor step up brings all sorts of new capability...
Tooling and accessories can eat up money very very quickly. I got a VFD, a boring head, some carbide bits, a rotary table, and some lights and I'm getting close to the purchase price of the machine. Plus now I'm thinking of CNCing it, which will be another slippery and expensive slope!