Interested in washita stones. Which one(s)?

[Bill White]

After using water stones for many years with success, I've begun looking at Washita stones. What brand(s) and hardness should I consider?
Not many listed for resale on the bay, and pics make me a bit nervous in regards to specs offered and condition of offered stones.
I would use them/it on plane irons, chisels, knives, etc., so larger stones would be best.
What say you?
Bill

[Tony Zaffuto]

I would search for a vintage Norton, preferably a "Lily White" or a "#1". Probably only find on that "auction site", as I don't believe any of the stone "miners", such as Dan's or Norton's, are selling washitas at the present time. Some of the stones being marketed are not true washitas-probably closer to a soft arkansas. Search the archives here and you'll find better descriptions of what washitas look like in the wild and probably a photo or two.

[Reinis Kanders]

Lookup David Weavers videos on YouTube, he has a couple of good ones about washita and other oilstones.

[Barry Dima]

Lookup David Weavers videos on YouTube, he has a couple of good ones about washita and other oilstones.

I'll do the legwork since I love his videos--even if I do understand about only 1/3 of the content on average.

Here's one with "Long Washita Ramble" in the title (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc02mxDhX6A). Don't let the title mislead you, though; most of his videos are rambles. That's part of their charm. I try surreptitiously watching these videos at work, and it doesn't work. He really gets into his topics--all 4,000 of them--in depth and in a kind of touch-and-go-and-touch-again manner, so focusing is key. (This criticism isn't to knock him; he and Richard Maguire, the English Woodworker, are the two who showed me how to use a chipbreaker effectively. David has great, if unpolished, content. I owe him for that.)

And here's Sharpening A Chisel (or Plane Iron) with Two Oilstones (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G85B6iVCyMo) and Various Types of Oilstones (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQ1xhMtoBQ).

[Bill White]

I'm a BIG fan of David's vids, but I still don't have sources for the stones. Ideas?
Bill

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'm a BIG fan of David's vids, but I still don't have sources for the stones. Ideas?
Bill

I think you find his stones were basically vintage, with sources such as Ebay, flea markets, antique stores and tool sales/auctions (Martin J. Donnelly, I think, still may have one auction this year, and you can bid online & at the end of October, there is the Brown Tool Sale & Auction, in Harrisburg and you can bid online for the auction portion).

[Reinis Kanders]

I'm a BIG fan of David's vids, but I still don't have sources for the stones. Ideas?
Bill

I think you just have to regularly check ebay. I found one stone called "Mechanics friend", it was a bit less than $50 and 7" long, it has worked well for me, another one I got for even less, maybe $30 and it was a combo stone by Norton, one side washita, other coarse india, that stone is pretty good as well. So you just have to wait, if you are willing to pay over $100 then lily white can be seen often on ebay.

[Jim Koepke]

You may be paying more for the name.

Have you tried a soft arkansas stone?

Dan's has some soft arks listed:

http://www.danswhetstone.com/bench_stones.htm

jtk

[Ian Tompkins]

I bought an 8" x 3" x .5" (my size preference) stone from Woodcraft that is labeled as a Washita, though from the sounds of it, it's questionable wether or not that's actually the case. I haven't had it long, but using it with a course india and translucent hard ark seems to work well. I think the brand is Pinnacle, it was around $30 when I bought it a few months ago.

[Reinis Kanders]

I have a similar new washita that Dan's sells, it is a different stone than old washita, much softer. I doubt you need a coarse india with new washitas, mine is pretty fast cutting.


I bought an 8" x 3" x .5" (my size preference) stone from Woodcraft that is labeled as a Washita, though from the sounds of it, it's questionable wether or not that's actually the case. I haven't had it long, but using it with a course india and translucent hard ark seems to work well. I think the brand is Pinnacle, it was around $30 when I bought it a few months ago.

[Charles Bjorgen]

I'm a BIG fan of David's vids, but I still don't have sources for the stones. Ideas?
Bill
Patience seems to be the requirement. I've also watched all of Mr. Weaver's videos on sharpening with his emphasis on a single Washita followed with a strop. It winds up being a pretty simple, uncluttered sharpening system. I recently picked up two Washita Lily White stones from a seller on another woodworking forum. The two stones are different enough in their scratch patterns to show that Washitas are just not extra coarse, but can vary. I tried them out followed by a strop on a block plane blade and this system seems to work although I've not compared it to using my water stones. I also have one of the Woodcraft stones marked Washita bought nearly 20 years ago, and it in no way compares with the Lily Whites I just acquired. It does have the mottled appearance that Weaver shows in his videos though. It just doesn't cut the same as my newer Washitas that I felt lucky to find.

I sharpen my kitchen knives with a 2 x 6 combo soft/hard Arkansas stone occasionally followed with a blue translucent. The combo stone was $23 and the trans was considerably more. I probably would not be willing to pay over $100 plus for some of the Norton Lily Whites that show up on eBay.

But I understand your quest about Washitas.

[Jonas Baker]

I have a bunch of washita stones and they vary greatly in their coarsness. Like any stone, they settle in, and depending on how coarse of a diamond stone you flatten them with, they will be initially coarser or finer. If I flatten them with my extra extra coarse DMT diamond stone, they are initially coarser than if I flatten them with my settled in coarse DMT diamond stone, but that is the same with any water stone or oilstone. Either way, the Washita stones settle in from their beginning level of coarseness, but some end up finer than others, and some start finer than others.

I find that the labeled Lily White Washita's are a bit coarser than the ones labled No. 1 Washitas, from my experience. But, you pay a premium for the labeled stones. The Lily White Washita's also seem to cut faster once they have settled in. I find there is no better or worse, as long as they are older Washita stones, and not the new ones such as from Woodcraft, which are nothing like the older ones. Anyway, I'm sure David explains all this in the videos.

I have some Washita stones that cut very coarse and don't leave as fine an edge, which is good for using before another finer stone, then I have some that leave an edge nearly as fine as hard arkansas stones, requiring only a strop to make a fine edge. My favorite stone somehow sharpens quickly, can cut coarse if I push into it, but leaves an edge similar to a hard arkansas.

Anyway, don't expect Washita stones to cut as fast as a coarse waterstone, or as fine as a 8000 grit waterstone. I like to have one at the bench for quickly touching up plane blades and chisels though.

Jonas

[Archie England]

I have a bunch of washita stones and they vary greatly in their coarsness. Like any stone, they settle in, and depending on how coarse of a diamond stone you flatten them with, they will be initially coarser or finer. If I flatten them with my extra extra coarse DMT diamond stone, they are initially coarser than if I flatten them with my settled in coarse DMT diamond stone, but that is the same with any water stone or oilstone. Either way, the Washita stones settle in from their beginning level of coarseness, but some end up finer than others, and some start finer than others.

I find that the labeled Lily White Washita's are a bit coarser than the ones labled No. 1 Washitas, from my experience. But, you pay a premium for the labeled stones. The Lily White Washita's also seem to cut faster once they have settled in. I find there is no better or worse, as long as they are older Washita stones, and not the new ones such as from Woodcraft, which are nothing like the older ones. Anyway, I'm sure David explains all this in the videos.

I have some Washita stones that cut very coarse and don't leave as fine an edge, which is good for using before another finer stone, then I have some that leave an edge nearly as fine as hard arkansas stones, requiring only a strop to make a fine edge. My favorite stone somehow sharpens quickly, can cut coarse if I push into it, but leaves an edge similar to a hard arkansas.

Anyway, don't expect Washita stones to cut as fast as a coarse waterstone, or as fine as a 8000 grit waterstone. I like to have one at the bench for quickly touching up plane blades and chisels though.

Jonas

This seems good counsel IMO. I've only got two old Washita stones, a Pike and a Lily White: both are excellent. However, my older ones came dished and misshaped, so I'm having to flatten them along the way (choosing not to give up so much good edge areas). My experience apparently matches Jonas'--good for restoring an edge but not as quickly as my waterstones, and the washita stones refine well but not as well as my 6k or 8k waterstones. As a single stone that exhibits quality cutting and polishing traits, however, my old Washita stones are great!

[Jonas Baker]

This seems good counsel IMO. I've only got two old Washita stones, a Pike and a Lily White: both are excellent. However, my older ones came dished and misshaped, so I'm having to flatten them along the way (choosing not to give up so much good edge areas). My experience apparently matches Jonas'--good for restoring an edge but not as quickly as my waterstones, and the washita stones refine well but not as well as my 6k or 8k waterstones. As a single stone that exhibits quality cutting and polishing traits, however, my old Washita stones are great!

Yes, that is also something to remember. All of the Washita stones I've ever gotten (at least 10) have all needed to be flattened. Some were very concave in the middle. They're worth flattening as they don't need to be flattened much at all for a long time if used properly. Even ones that were never used were not perfectly flat, though I'm sure they're perfectly usable like that in actuality.

As far as resources, ebay comes to mind. I know david would find stones that were just sold as "sharpening stone" or "oil stone" and he was able to tell if they were Washita stones, but you can't always tell, but these do go for cheaper than a marked Lily White, etc.