Proper Technique for Edge jointing

[Nick Stokes]

I am trying to improve in this... I consistently get the same result. Help me diagnose.

To give you an idea of my setup, when I am edge jointing boards I secure them horizontally in my face vise. I am right handed, so I stand to the right and somewhat behind the board.

I play with different Left hand grips, but I consistently end up with the Left side of the board lower than the right... Try as I might, I remove too much material such that I plan an angle on the edge, instead of 90* to the face.

Can anyone identify with this, and suggest something to try for a remedy? Is it too much pressure, is it a particular grip? Could it be plane setup? I dont have much camber on my blade, but I suppose too much could cause this problem right? As well as a blade that is not properly setup? There are alot of variable I guess and I have a hard time putting my finger on what is causing the problem. I need it go go away, and I need to be able to plane a 90 degree edge on a board.

Thanks for any tips or links.

[Brian Holcombe]

Has the board been face jointed, and all twist removed? Since the face is your reference if this has not been done than you'll drive yourself s bit crazy hunting down the error (damhikt).

[Chris Cohick]

I learned the answer to this the hard way back in the mid 70's in wood shop class. My instructor was of no help, I figured it out by accident. Too much pressure was causing my troubles then, and I'd give that a try for the issue you are experiencing. As soon as I let up and let the plane do the work, I got square edges. Good luck. I am interested to hear how this works out.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Hard to tell what your problem might be, but there are a lot of variables, and if you are focusing on one, you are probably letting the others slide. You have to kind of look at all the things at once and not get too focused on one thing. If you are competely focused on 90, you probably aren't paying as much attention as you need to be sure you are ending up with a square board and not some kind of triangle, hump backed whale, etc. If it is square, but not straight, or if the edges are not parallel, you still end up with a problem.

Some have talked about clamping the board face down on the bench top, and using the bench as sort of a long shooting plane. Others like the match planing, on the theory that whatever error you put into one board is canceled out by the complementary error in the other board. Like most things, there are lots of ways to approach it, and some work better for some people, and some for others.

My solution was to cut down on some of the variables, and I got a fence for the jointer. That does a good job of holding the 90, and I can focus more attention on keeping edges parallel, etc. I could probably get decent results without the fence at this point, but it helped me get from frustration to producing usable boards. Slowing down and checking frequently with square and straightedge, marking problem spots, and trying to keep the whole board in perspective helps a lot too.

However you do it, it is important to get the face flat before you try to joint it. I start with that, and then generally will check the edge with a string. If it is badly out (bowed or whatever), I will rip it to get most of the problems out before jointing. It is a lot quicker and easier to get a good edge if you start with something that is pretty close to 90 and pretty straight to begin with.

[Nick Stokes]

Has the board been face jointed, and all twist removed? Since the face is your reference if this has not been done than you'll drive yourself s bit crazy hunting down the error (damhikt).

Wow. This has a great chance of being the culprit... I can confess that because I do not have winding sticks, I usually skip the checking for twist part of flattening... Seems a bit silly now, doesn't it.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Nick,

There are a lot of things at play here. Your work could be a bit too high compared to your height among other things.

Also can't neglect to mention the lateral adjustment on your plane. It should be set so the shaving is even on both sides.

My planing was also always off 90º like yours. Over time I became used to the awkward feel of holding my plane "off square." In reality it was square.

If your off amount is pretty much consistent, try countering it.

For me, most of the time when the saw marks are almost gone or when a consistent full length shaving emerges I check my work and then make any adjustment necessary to get to 90º.

Here is a post of mine with a technique I use:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076-Getting-Started-With-Hand-Planes&p=1515247#post1515247

You might try the "fingernails and knuckles as fence grip" along with the slight tilt and see if it helps.

Good luck and let us know how it goes and what works for you.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Wow. This has a great chance of being the culprit... I can confess that because I do not have winding sticks, I usually skip the checking for twist part of flattening... Seems a bit silly now, doesn't it.

I have the Veritas winding sticks. I'm sure Lee Valley would be happy to send you a set.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have had this issue at times. I think you are getting good advice. I am just wondering what exactly Brian et al. mean by face jointing to remove the twist?

What I find works for me is checking for the high spots on the surface of whatever I am trying to make flat. I start out just eyeballing to see if there are easily visible high spots, then I may use a square or a winding stick/any flat surface. Running a plane set up to take a little larger cut may help, say a jack with a cambered blade. The cambered blade obviously does not leave a dead flat surface but it allows you to remove wood from a section of the surface without having to plane the entire surface. So I am wondering if this is what Brian is talking about when he suggests jointing the surface first? Basically the idea being to work just high areas until the surface becomes flat enough for a jointer plane to level the entire surface instead of following existing contours?

One could also look at this as the rough/medium/smooth approach to planing. A jointer or smooth plane set up with straight blade, removing thin shavings, can follow existing contours or make new sets of contours that may not be flat. The rough and medium planes get the surface to a point that the jointer and smooth planes can finish the job. For me the most important thing I have learned abut planes is they do not automatically flatten a board without thought and physical adjustments from the operator. I have to remind myself that hand tools are not machines that you just put the work on and remove it perfectly dimensioned. Hand tools require a certain amount of thought and operator influence which however much we may appreciate sometimes we may forget.

[Brian Holcombe]

I have had this issue at times. I think you are getting good advice. I am just wondering what exactly Brian et al. mean by face jointing to remove the twist?

What I find works for me is checking for the high spots on the surface of whatever I am trying to make flat. I start out just eyeballing to see if there are easily visible high spots, then I may use a square or a winding stick/any flat surface. Running a plane set up to take a little larger cut may help, say a jack with a cambered blade. The cambered blade obviously does not leave a dead flat surface but it allows you to remove wood from a section of the surface without having to plane the entire surface. So I am wondering if this is what Brian is talking about when he suggests jointing the surface first? Basically the idea being to work just high areas until the surface becomes flat enough for a jointer plane to level the entire surface instead of following existing contours?

One could also look at this as the rough/medium/smooth approach to planing. A jointer or smooth plane set up with straight blade, removing thin shavings, can follow existing contours or make new sets of contours that may not be flat. The rough and medium planes get the surface to a point that the jointer and smooth planes can finish the job. For me the most important thing I have learned abut planes is they do not automatically flatten a board without thought and physical adjustments from the operator. I have to remind myself that hand tools are not machines that you just put the work on and remove it perfectly dimensioned. Hand tools require a certain amount of thought and operator influence which however much we may appreciate sometimes we may forget.

Mike,

Since the OP is jointing an edge I took the assumption that he is checking it for squareness against the face of the board. Unless the face is actually square and without twist than he is actually trying to mimic the twist unknowingly since his square is referencing off of a twisted face.

I start by setting the largest area first, so that is usually a face, I'll do that with winding sticks for larger boards, or for small parts I'll check against a true flat reference. Once the largest face is trued and accurate than the reminder of the cutting can be referenced off of that.

My procedure varies, but basically I'll gauge thickness next and plane the board to thickness, then my final steps are to joint the edges square and check them. Checking, checking and checking along the way to make sure I'm not coming out of square as material is removed.

Nick, hopefully that is the cultprit and it works out. Cheers!

[Prashun Patel]

What happens when you stand to the left of the vise and plane in the opposite direction? Standing to the left (on a short board) will allow you to stand completely behind the board and plane strictly away from your body, instead of across it.

Do you find that you need to bear down pretty hard on the surface to get a full length shaving? If yes, then you may try sharpening at a slightly shallower angle or waxing the sole to make the plane slide easier. This will enable you to focus on balance instead of pressure.

Last, I hate to suggest something glib, but the fact may be you just need to practice more. I received the same advice last year, and just like steering a bike with nary a shift in your body weight, the same is possible with a jointing plane. Just keep at it and shift your balance and focus and weight to compensate. Even if your blade is cambered or there are other maladies, learning how to adjust your balance will cure most of those ills.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

It is helpful to understand ways that you might be going wrong. These are a few things that pop into my head.



Is the board face properly prepared (already discussed by others)
Is the blade flat (parallel to the bottom of the plane)? If not, then you must tilt your plane or adjust the blade appropriately.
Is the board properly vertical? (like say if your bench is not level) If not, then you must adjust accordingly.
Are you holding the plane perpendicular to the board? You may be able to use a "mini level" on your plane to watch if you need the help.


I have heard of people laying the board face down and then using the bench top as a shooting board to make things perpendicular. I have never tried this.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the answer Brian. So you were thinking in terms of transferring error from a reference side that is not square.

It seems that the whole idea of flat has a certain "degree" of relativity to it. I have read a number of posts on this site in which people have asked just how flat things like table/work tops need to be. Lately, when I have been able to work, I have been working chair spindles, chair legs and chair seats, essentially curved surfaces, which may not have, or even ever had, a square reference surface. Working those types of surfaces may give me a little different perspective than those who typically think in terms of rectangular pieces or pieces made from rectangular boards.

[Nick Stokes]

I knew you were the men to ask. Can't wait to get in the shop and get to the bottom of it.

[Steve Voigt]

I am trying to improve in this... I consistently get the same result. Help me diagnose.

I am right handed, so I stand to the right and somewhat behind the board.



Plenty of good suggestions here, but I'll add one more. You mentioned that you are using "some" camber. That can help, but it can also cause problems when combined with the statement above.

If you are looking at the board from the left, the plane will look centered on the board when it is actually a little left of center. If your iron is cambered, and the plane is always a little left of center, you will naturally take more meat off the left side. So, just like a saw cut, make sure you are lined up visually over the edge of the board when you begin your stroke. I would not mess around with changing direction; if you are a righty, plane right to left.

Also, keep in mind what Brian said: it's a constant process of plane, check, adjust; plane check, adjust. Don't expect to get an automatic square edge. If you are using camber, and you are low on one side, just shift the plane over.

I encourage you to keep trying to joint edges freehand. Here's a thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?113498-Jointer-plane-skills/page3) from the wayback machine; I recommend reading the third-to-last post by Don McConnell. His remarks are among the best I have ever read on using (or really not using) aids like match planing or jointing fences.

[ian maybury]

As usual only limited handtool experience here.

To Brian's point about needing the face to be flat. Twists can presumably can bite one up the bum if a twisted face is used as a reference, but it's also the case that if a twisted/out of flat board is clamped hard to a flat surface problems are inevitable. (or to a less than flat surface for that matter) Issues must arise if for any reason the clamps or the vise is required to spring the board to get it face to face with the supporting surface. That's because it'll spring back to being twisted when released, and will take the planed edge out of alignment at the same time.

A cupped board or support surface might well consistently result in one side of an edge being low. A less than flat and straight bench apron and vise jaw would cause problems too - a really true bench has to be a huge help or even essential.

The second issue to my mind in this territory is technique related - there's a tempation to keep on blindly planing away in the hope an adge or face will somehow come straight. It may well do so in the case of a very experienced woodworker for whom the technique is almost unconscious, but on the few occasions i've tried ( i use a powered jointer most of the time) i've found it necessary to be very methodical, and to plan each stroke of the plane. That's in terms of figuring out where the edge being jointed is high/material needs to be removed, and deciding where on the width of the iron the plane should cut. So that the camber angle acts to tilt the edge back to square. Get it wrong and each cut will worsen the situation.

As ever in many of these matters of basic technique David Charlesworth has been there and wrote about it in detail in mag articles years ago. There's a very comprehensive write up on the technique of hand planing square and straight faces and edges on p 44 'How to Unwind' in his book 'Furniture Making Techniques' (actually the first book of mag reprints i think) by the Guild of Master Craftsman Publications ISBN 1 86108 125 1, and an even more comprehensive treatment of edge jointing in particular on p74 in volume 2 on of the same series titled 'The Method'. That's ISBN 1 86108 295 9

All here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=david+charlesworth

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I encourage you to keep trying to joint edges freehand. Here's a thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?113498-Jointer-plane-skills/page3) from the wayback machine; I recommend reading the third-to-last post by Don McConnell. His remarks are among the best I have ever read on using (or really not using) aids like match planing or jointing fences.

I don't disagree with any of that. But I look at a fence on a jointer the way I look at training wheels on a bicycle. I don't ride a bike with training wheels, but they sure helped me learn to ride by temporarily eliminating balance from the many variables you have to learn to control simultaneously in order to ride without crashing (speed, steering, braking, looking out for obstacles, etc). Jointing is similar in having to develop subconcious or muscle memory in order to simultaneously manage a number of variables and I think a fence can serve a similar purpose for a beginner.

[Daniel Rode]

I'm not super experienced with hand tools. Just a couple of years now, but I can joint a square edge without much fuss. Perhaps I just stumbled onto a decent process early on and with a bit of practice it became repeatable? The other posters have covered it pretty well but maybe it will help if I go through my step-by-step process to make a flat and square edge.

First of, I choose flat reference case. If the reference face is twisted the edge is not going to be square. I use the same face the check my progress every time.

Next I mount the board in the face vice. Certain boards require different holding methods, but most from 1" to about 12" wide go in my face vice. The ordination of thew reference face doesn't matter to me so I choose the direction that best goes with the grain.

If the edge is rough or has a significant hump or dip, I will probably use a scrub (jack) plane to hog off the excess. I just check for square by eye a this stage. It's often pretty close.

Now I grab the jointer plane. Depending on the length of the edge I may use a #5, #6 or my #7. The process is the same. It it's under 12" I'll probably use my shooting board.

Check the plane's set. The iron should be finely set to start and the edges should protrude evenly. My irons except my scrub are flat in the center with edges that feather. I shallow camber works just as well. A flat iron will work, but it's a bit more effort to correct and out of square edge.

I check the edge to see if it's off one way or another (or both). I'll start to correct using the method below, but mostly I want to get to the next step before I really concentrate on squareness.

I take a pass on the edge with the plane centered on the board. I use my fingers to pinch the plane just behind the iron or just in front with smaller planes. This acts as a fence to keep the plane centered. I repeat this until I get a shaving the entire length. I'm adjusting the cut as I go as well. I want fine shaving, but not gossamer thin. I'm also watching the shaving carefully, reading it for clues on the condition of the edge. For example, if the shaving is sharp on one edge and ragged on the other? That tells me that the ragged edge is low or my plane is somehow tipped.

I have a secure but loose grip on the tote. If I'm doing it right, I can open my hand and push with the web/palm alone. This is important. Like hand saw, the plane wants to be straight and square. If you squeeze to hard you'll throw it off. If you are always dipping to one side, it's a good bet it's body mechanics. My arms don't move much. Most of the work comes from my legs and back. The more I do this, the better my results are.

Relax. Breathe. Push with your legs.

Pressure along the length is important. The beginning is pressure on the front of the plane and an smooth push forward. In the center of the board, the pressure is evenly (and lightly) downward front and back. For the last 1/3rd I have virtually no pressure on the front. I am registering off the rear of sole totally. This helps reduce planing a hump, but it still happens. I probably need some more practice with this. To remove a hump, take a few strokes in the center 1/3 - 1/2 until the plane stops cutting, then take 1 or 2 full length strokes.

As this is happening, check the edge with a square. Check all along the edge. If one side is low, move the plane off center to compensate. Use your fingers like a fence to keep a steady cut. The camber will make the iron cut less on the edge and more toward the center. Moving to the very edge of the plane will take no cut at all on that side. Move the center of the iron toward the high side.

Sometimes the edge is twisted in this case, you can work a it on each end until they are both even or, start got the full length moving the plane from one side to the other. This is easier to do that it sounds. Watch the shavings, check with a square and move the plane from side to side.

With practice it gets easier and easier.

[Joel Thomas Runyan]

My first guess is that your bench/piece is at an awkward height, which forces your right elbow too close to your body, which will make it very hard to not tilt the plane toward you. This effect is compounded in the event of a less than sharp iron or a harder wood, which will invariably cause you to press down hard on the plane in order to keep it cutting, which--especially in the case of a metal jointer--shouldn't be so necessary.

[Jim Koepke]

If one wants to use a fence, it is fairly easy to make one.

323293

This is just a block of wood to ride on a face. The sides on the block are square. There is a groove cutout with a gouge for the blade. Most of the time my use of such a fence is when something needs to have a precise angle.

It is a bit awkward at first, but one gets used to it.

jtk