Veritas Shooting Plane Tolerance

[Stew Hagerty]

Hey all... It's been quite a while since I posted. The last year or so hasn't been great. Anyway, that has absolutely nothing to do with this post.

A couple years ago out in Iowa at Handworks I so a thing of beauty. It was the plastic prototype for a Veritas Shooting Plane. Now the Stanley 51 is sweet, as is the Lie-Nielsen version of it. But I really like the the new approach that Lee Valley took. One of my favorite things about all their planes is the use of set screws to help position the blade. I also like the Norris adjuster. But the biggy is the adjustable mouth. Plus, no offense Tom, I just like the feel of Veritas planes. They fit me.

So anyway, flash forward to today, I finally took the plunge and got one (complete with the PM-V11 blade). It arrived today and I felt like a kid on Christmas opening it up. I started cleaning it up and, having just watched Chuck Bender's video, I put my Woodpeckers Try Square on it and was actually shocked to see that it wobbled. It appeared that the plane was out of square. Now, I trust my Woodpeckers Try Square, but I pulled out my Starrett Double Square to double check and got the same results. So I checked each of them on my Woodpeckers Precision Angle Reference Plate which clearly indicates angle from 0 to 55 degrees in 1/4 degree increments, and both squares were... well square. Now I was completely convinced already but I dug out my "in the box, only used once before" Bridge City TS-2V2 Try Square and got the exact same wobble. Finally, with the utmost care and reverence I checked it with my 150+/- year old (and still perfectly dead accurate) Mathieson & Son Try Square and guess what? Yeah, still out of square. So I pulled out a Bevel a Bevel Gauge and checked it against the before referenced Angle Reference Plate and it is a quarter of a degree off. Instead of 90 degrees, it's 89.75 degrees.
OK, I don't know what is an acceptable tolerance so I call. The guy I talked to said that they talk in thousandths of an inch, so I got out my feeler gauge and with my Woodpecker's Square I measured the gap along the face (the one with the blade) referenced from the base I got anywhere from .003" to .005" of a gap depending on the width of the face. Some parts of the face are wider than others, and naturally the gap gets wider the further away you measure from the reference edge. He said I could return it and they would send me another, but that it may be exactly the same.

So, here's my question:
What is an acceptable tolerance? He said I their limit was typically 3-4 thousandths, but if I exchange it and the next one is just the same what have I achieved? Before you all start saying that I can sand & sand & sand until I get it perfect, I am disabled and do not have the strength or stamina to do that. No, a quarter of a degree isn't much, but is it enough that you will see it in an assembled project? I mean, assuming I build it accurate, the shooting board and the plane should give me perfect 90 degree joints in one direction. Rob, if you see this, I am in absolutely NO WAY disparaging your products!!! I love your stuff, and have spent my fair share of money on your things to prove it. Your Low-Angle Block Plane with the Tote & Knob options is my favorite plane. I reach for it more than any other.

I don't know, what would you guys & gals do?

[Tom M King]

Mine was dead on square and straight on both sides to start with, and has stayed that way. I'd call LV, and I'm sure they will exchange it. Three thou sounds like a lot to me. That's the thickness of a piece of paper, and I regularly take shavings a third of that with mine.

[Chris Griggs]

I agree, 3 to 5 thou sounds out of spec. I think LN and LV both advertise 1.5 thou. Have them send you a replacement.

[glenn bradley]

That would definitely not work for me. Sorry you got a guy from the gardening department to answer your call. Lee Valley supplies a return label right in the box. Wrap 'er up and ask for a replacement. Easy-Peasy.

[Mike Cherry]

I gotta agree with the guys on this one. This planes sole purpose is to shoot 90 degrees. Your not at 90. It sucks but I think you'll be happier in the end if you get a replacement. Let us know how it goes mate!

[Stew Hagerty]

I called back and got someone that wasn't a guy
from the gardening department - Glenn Bradley. In fact "she" was a guy at all. So she is going to have their head of quality control (or something very similar) call me on Tuesday, Monday is Canadian Thanksgiving. She said that he, I think she said his name was Glen, would hand pick one as a replacement for me, and be the one to inspect my return.
I will let you all know how it goes.

[Jim Belair]

I agree, 3 to 5 thou sounds out of spec. I think LN and LV both advertise 1.5 thou. Have them send you a replacement.

If their spec is 3-4 thou as they told you I suspect the assumption is you'll correct using the lateral adjustment? I'm just asking- I don't usually work to such close tolerances.

[Tom M King]

That sounds more like I would expect.

[Jim Koepke]

It is close to impossible to catch a small error on every piece made. There may have been a small ship in the milling machine when your plane's sole was mounted for machining.

An exchange from a company that stands behind their product is as much as one could ask.

It is a shame that small errors get shipped, but it happens.

jtk

[Mike Gottlieb]

After reading this thread I checked my LV shooting plane with two different Starrett engineers squares. Mine was dead on at 90 degrees for the full length of the sole. I have been using this plane since introduction and just love it. Contact LV and I am sure they will make it right.
Mike

[Stew Hagerty]

It is close to impossible to catch a small error on every piece made. There may have been a small ship in the milling machine when your plane's sole was mounted for machining.

An exchange from a company that stands behind their product is as much as one could ask.

It is a shame that small errors get shipped, but it happens.

jkt

Absolutely Jim. This kind of thing falls into the "shit happens" category. As I said, Lee Valley/Veritas is an amazing company with amazing people and amazing products. I basically just didn't know what was considered acceptable.

[Adam Cruea]

Hrm, I did not see that on the Spacez of Facez. :(

Don't be surprised if you get your replacement before actually shipping the bunk piece back. I've had to replace a couple of cap irons and before I got off my duff to the UPS store, the replacements were at my door.

[Stew Hagerty]

Hrm, I did not see that on the Spacez of Facez. :(

Don't be surprised if you get your replacement before actually shipping the bunk piece back. I've had to replace a couple of cap irons and before I got off my duff to the UPS store, the replacements were at my door.

Yeah Adam, I expect that might just happen. They were closed today for Canadian Thanksgiving, but their QC guy'll be calling me tomorrow.

[Stew Hagerty]

Hrm, I did not see that on the Spacez of Facez. :(

Don't be surprised if you get your replacement before actually shipping the bunk piece back. I've had to replace a couple of cap irons and before I got off my duff to the UPS store, the replacements were at my door.

Well Adam you must be psychic. I spoke with their person on Tuesday and was told unequivocally that anything not 90 degrees was not acceptable. They said that they would check by hand to be sure to send me one that was dead on. Oh, and there would be a mailing label with it for me to return the original one.
Well it arrived today. I pulled out that Bridge City TS-2V2 and it looked perfect. For kicks, I set my bevel on it and checked it against my Woodpeckers Angle Reference Plate and it looks as close to 90 degrees as I am able to measure. So I popped the PM-V11 blade that I had honed to razor sharpness while I was waiting for the plane. And yes, for your information, I do mean razor sharp. I always test blades, chisels, whatever by shaving the hairs on my arm. if it doesn't do as good a job as my 4-blade from the Dollar Shave Club, then it's not sharp enough. I adjusted the 3 set screws to align the blade perfectly, I set the mouth to about as fine an opening as any plane I own, locked everything down and was ready to give it a try. Now, I also bought the 16" track (Rob Lee, if you read this I think 16" is about the bare minimum for a shooting board. On the other hand 24" like the larger track is too long in my book. If it was up to me, I'd offer a 20". I think it'd be just perfect) but I have not yet built a new shooting board for it yet so I pulled out my old one to give the plane a test drive.
I love it... nuf said.
Here are pictures of the new arrival:

323535323534323536

[Jim Koepke]

Glad to hear it all came out well.

Thanks for letting us know.

jtk

[Mike Cherry]

Rather than start a new thread, I wanted to just chime in and mention that I just took delivery of a veritas shooting plane. This one appears to also be out of 90 degrees and, like Stew, believe it to be just barely out as well. I admit, I dont have as many ways to check its variance but it is definitely not 90. I have called Lee Valley and the gentleman I spoke to wanted to forward the case to, I assume, someone more familiar with the tool. I think he might have been a bit hesitant to just send a replacement, but hopefully I can get someone to hand pick a plane like what happened for you Stew.

[Mike Cherry]

Less than 6 hours after calling, I have a new plane being shipped. Just shows how awesome Lee Valley is and why I have invested as much as I have in their tools. I must say, aside from this issue the plane is an absolute stunner. I was able to hand LN's shooter a couple weeks ago and it felt great as well but this thing is awesome.

[Mike Brady]

I wouldn't use Dollar Shave Club blades as any sort of reference other than "not sharp". Probably the worst razor I ever shaved with. I belonged to the club for a year and never even used my last month of blades. Now I have a beard and don't care.

[john zulu]

I bought mine when it was first released. It was dead on square. LV makes good on the tools it produces. Kudos on that!

[Stew Hagerty]

Less than 6 hours after calling, I have a new plane being shipped. Just shows how awesome Lee Valley is and why I have invested as much as I have in their tools. I must say, aside from this issue the plane is an absolute stunner. I was able to hand LN's shooter a couple weeks ago and it felt great as well but this thing is awesome.

It sounds like they took good care of both of us Mike. I've been using mine quite a bit since I got it. In fact, quite a bit more than I had anticipated. I am extremely pleased!


I wouldn't use Dollar Shave Club blades as any sort of reference other than "not sharp". Probably the worst razor I ever shaved with. I belonged to the club for a year and never even used my last month of blades. Now I have a beard and don't care.

On the contrary Mike, for me they do a much better job than my old Mach III Turbo. Now, I did start out with their 6-blade razor
but I think it was just too darn wide to follow all hills & valleys tight enough. I switched to their 4-blade model and have never looked back.

[Mike Cherry]

Stew, are you still using the veritas track too? I was more leaning towards building my own

[Adam Cruea]

Well Adam you must be psychic. I spoke with their person on Tuesday and was told unequivocally that anything not 90 degrees was not acceptable. They said that they would check by hand to be sure to send me one that was dead on. Oh, and there would be a mailing label with it for me to return the original one.
Well it arrived today. I pulled out that Bridge City TS-2V2 and it looked perfect. For kicks, I set my bevel on it and checked it against my Woodpeckers Angle Reference Plate and it looks as close to 90 degrees as I am able to measure. So I popped the PM-V11 blade that I had honed to razor sharpness while I was waiting for the plane. And yes, for your information, I do mean razor sharp. I always test blades, chisels, whatever by shaving the hairs on my arm. if it doesn't do as good a job as my 4-blade from the Dollar Shave Club, then it's not sharp enough. I adjusted the 3 set screws to align the blade perfectly, I set the mouth to about as fine an opening as any plane I own, locked everything down and was ready to give it a try. Now, I also bought the 16" track (Rob Lee, if you read this I think 16" is about the bare minimum for a shooting board. On the other hand 24" like the larger track is too long in my book. If it was up to me, I'd offer a 20". I think it'd be just perfect) but I have not yet built a new shooting board for it yet so I pulled out my old one to give the plane a test drive.
I love it... nuf said.
Here are pictures of the new arrival:

323535323534323536

Very nice, I'm glad you're happy with it and they treated you right.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Very nice, I'm glad you're happy with it and they treated you right.

Adam, how's your LN one that you bought about two years ago?

[Mike Cherry]

Adam, how's your LN one that you bought about two years ago?
I'm interested to hear some feedback on the LN one as well. I'll be honest, a big seller for me is the low angle and the fact that it uses the same blade as their other low angle planes. I love that versatility.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I'm interested to hear some feedback on the LN one as well. I'll be honest, a big seller for me is the low angle and the fact that it uses the same blade as their other low angle planes.

The Veritas has those features, not the LN.

[Mike Cherry]

The Veritas has those features, not the LN.
i realize that. I'm interested in hearing about Adams experience with his LN. I might not have been clear.

[george wilson]

It is good that you sent the plane back. Had you worked on it yourself you would likely have voided the warranty. And,you might not have gotten the plane perfect either. Could have made it worse.

The first plane I ever bought from LV was a block plane(not the NX60!). When I tightened the sliding throat plate,it would bend and become concave. Of course,this affected the depth of cut that the iron would make,and generally threw everything off,such as sole flatness. I thought about slipping a washer inside of the adjustment mechanism and filing it to just the right thickness that it'd keep the throat plate from being bent concave. I called LV to advise them of a potential problem with this plane model. They insisted in my sending it back. I did. Turned out that my plane had been ground .010" too thin. That's the thickness of 2 sheets of typing paper. But,it was enough lost thickness to allow the cast iron to suck hollow when the screw was tightened. I was surprised that .010" was enough to weaken the throat plate,especially in cast iron,but it was.

[Mike Cherry]

That's pretty tight tolerances! I'll be honest, I remembered reading this thread a while back and when I took delivery I checked it for 90 and immediately came back and read this thread all
over. Big thanks to the people here that share their knowledge and time!

[Stew Hagerty]

Stew, are you still using the veritas track too? I was more leaning towards building my own

Well, I have the track Mike but I haven't had time yet to actually build the new board. I’m still using my old one for now, but I very much am enjoying the plane. I’ve got too many things to get done before Christmas. Come January I have several shop projects to start on.

[Mike Cherry]

Well, I have the track Mike but I haven't had time yet to actually build the new board. I’m still using my old one for now, but I very much am enjoying the plane. I’ve got too many things to get done before Christmas. Come January I have several shop projects to start on.

i hear ya, I got several items for the shop that I've been putting off as well.

[Tony Shea]

Luckily my original shooting board that I built was wide enough to accept a stri[ of wood to make my own track with. I have been absolutely loving my LV shooting plane since getting it as an Xmas present last year. It already has payed for itself in my hand tool only shop and is sooo much more comfortable than just laying any other plane on its' side to use as a shooting plane. I highly reccomend the LV version and can even highly reccomend the LN plane after trying it out a lot at the different hand tool events that have it. I actually slightly prefer the LN one due to the extra mass, the standard angle blade is not noticable especially with the extra mass of the plane, but the LV one is not far behind.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

I've also got this plane recently and it is such a joy of cutting end grain with it! At first I even cut too much that I needed so easy it was! :)

However, when I checked result for square it was quite a bit off. I know I can laterally adjust the blade to compensate for imperfections. Or I can make the shooting track slightly inclined. For now, I just attached duct tape on one side of the track to compensate for this. But I also checked sides for square. And it seems it is about half degree less than 90. See the picture below:

330836

So, if I did the math correctly, about 1.39 mm at the far edge of the sole represent one degree of angle. The gap looks like slightly less than or almost 1 mm. Thus, angle is around 89.3 - 89.5 degree.

Is it according to tolerances and should be accepted for such expensive plane?

[Derek Cohen]

You know, I have never measured any of my shooting planes for accuracy - I have three (!): Stanley #51, LN #51, and LV Shooting Plane. They all just work as well as I could hope. There is more potential inaccuracy in the way you set the blade.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom M King]

One thing about setting the blade: Once you find "right", it's easy to get back there next time.

[Chris Hachet]

I bought mine when it was first released. It was dead on square. LV makes good on the tools it produces. Kudos on that!




I have had nothing but fantastic luck with them.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

You know, I have never measured any of my shooting planes for accuracy - I have three (!)

Might be just me that is the problem. As we usually say, bad dancer thinks he has bad legs. :D

On the other hand, I have nothing to compare to and limited time to file a complain about faulty item to the seller. In other words, it is indecisive nightmare that I'm going through which doesn't help me sleep sometimes.

To make things worse, I've also got Veritas Skew Rabbet plane and it has fence not parallel to the sides of the plain and slightly out of square on one end. So much that nose of the plane goes 2 mm deeper from the edge of the wood than the tail.

330854
330855

[Jim Koepke]

Did the plane come from LN or LV?

They have replaced such inaccuracies for others here. The shipping might be a bit high in your case.

jtk

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Did the plane come from LN or LV?

That is Veritas plane that was bought through one of distributors in Europe - fine-tools.com. That have not yet answered to my email, takes a day or two. Going directly to Lee Valley with this might be indeed too expensive due to shipping costs.

Also I've got twisted Veritas Variable Fence... like 3 mm twisted out of the plain on one corner. And slightly twisted Veritas aluminium straight edge. I should be totally unlucky or that seller tries to sell returns to the newbie. :( Package seemed to be original though. I understand that Veritas is trying to hit optimum balance between price and function. But these sort of things are easy to spot by looking briefly at it.

[Derek Cohen]

Andrey, contact LV. They will sort you out. There is nothing worse than owning tools, or any prized object that is imperfect. It takes all the pleasure away. LV understand this - very approachable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

That is Veritas plane that was bought through one of distributors in Europe - fine-tools.com. That have not yet answered to my email, takes a day or two. Going directly to Lee Valley with this might be indeed too expensive due to shipping costs.

Also I've got twisted Veritas Variable Fence... like 3 mm twisted out of the plain on one corner. And slightly twisted Veritas aluminium straight edge. I should be totally unlucky or that seller tries to sell returns to the newbie. :( Package seemed to be original though. I understand that Veritas is trying to hit optimum balance between price and function. But these sort of things are easy to spot by looking briefly at it.

FWIW I have basically all of the items that you list, purchased directly from LV, and none of them are problematic. My 50" Aluminum straightedge appears to be in spec, my variable fence is dead flat, and with one exception my Veritas planes are all square and flat to within 2 mils. The vast majority of them are tighter than that, and are slightly better on average than my 3 L-Ns and much better than my 2 WoodRivers, though all are within reasonable tolerances for woodworking.

The exception is the pair of Veritas edge planes - Those had significant (~0.5 deg) angular errors between base and fence. The reason is obvious and understandable: The geometry of the plane prevents Veritas from employing their usual surface grinding. I lapped them to flat/square using PSA sandpaper on a 90 deg machined form and have been very happy with them ever since.

I've also dealt with and had good experiences with fine-tools in the past, but never for Veritas stuff (for obvious reasons - I live in the US, so Dieter Schmid only makes sense for stuff that doesn't have distribution here)

What I'm working to here is that it sounds like there's some sort of distribution channel issue with the combination of Veritas and Dieter Schmid. They're both class acts, though, so you should be able to get it resolved as others have said.

[Jim Koepke]

I've also got Veritas Skew Rabbet plane and it has fence not parallel to the sides of the plain and slightly out of square on one end.

You seem to be having all kinds of bad luck.

If these are from a walk in retailer my suggestion is to bring your squares and other measuring devices with you next time you purchase a tool from these folks.

It seems very strange that one person would get all the out of spec tools.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

You seem to be having all kinds of bad luck.

If these are from a walk in retailer my suggestion is to bring your squares and other measuring devices with you next time you purchase a tool from these folks.

Per his previous post he bought them from Dieter Schmid (http://www.fine-tools.com/) a.k.a. fine-tools.com. They're reputable and I've personally had good experiences with them.

[Jim Koepke]

Per his previous post he bought them from Dieter Schmid (http://www.fine-tools.com/) a.k.a. fine-tools.com. They're reputable and I've personally had good experiences with them.

Yes, I saw that. I do not know if Dieter Schmid, fine-tools.com has a brick and mortar presence or not. Woodcraft.com, highlander.com are other internet vendors that do have outlets one can visit and purchase items, just like leevalley.com.

To me it seems strange to have so many items all with problems. If it were me it might shake my faith a bit.

They do have an address and show up on Google Maps:

330866

jtk

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Thanks Derek, Jim, Patrick and all for your attention.

It takes two days for them to reply. So, hopefully tomorrow they will write something. I've got almost all my expensive hand tools from them. I think about 20 orders over last two years and just these 4 items that raised some questions.

I've also got pair of longer rods that fit other planes. I put them to Veritas Custom #7 and observed the same thing. Should be the fence fault. The fence has fittings pressed in to ductile iron and they look done unevenly. In worst case I can order separately just the fence (comes with short rods) for 60 EUR. That is my plan B that let me sleep alright again :)

Driving there would take me 10 hours one way, even on German highways without speed limit. And 120 EUR for diesel. Worth the price of 10 deliveries from them. Perhaps when doing vacation trip. Berlin is a nice city, almost as huge and grant as Moscow, among other European capitals. I was doing my diploma there for one year.

[Patrick Chase]

Thanks Derek, Jim, Patrick and all for your attention.

It takes two days for them to reply. So, hopefully tomorrow they will write something. I've got almost all my expensive hand tools from them. I think about 20 orders over last two years and just these 4 items that raised some questions.

I've also got pair of longer rods that fit other planes. I put them to Veritas Custom #7 and observed the same thing. Should be the fence fault. The fence has fittings pressed in to ductile iron and they look done unevenly. In worst case I can order separately just the fence (comes with short rods) for 60 EUR. That is my plan B that let me sleep alright again :)

Driving there would take me 10 hours one way, even on German highways without speed limit. And 120 EUR for diesel. Worth the price of 10 deliveries from them. Perhaps when doing vacation trip. Berlin is a nice city, almost as huge and grant as Moscow, among other European capitals. I was doing my diploma there for one year.

If one of the collets that holds the fence on the rod were tilted as you say then it should be almost impossible to move the fence all the way in - is that the case?

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

If one of the collets that holds the fence on the rod were tilted as you say then it should be almost impossible to move the fence all the way in - is that the case?

I can only guess how free it supposed to move. But it is moving with some difficulty it tends to stuck on one side or another. Also very hard to remove from the rods. Had to use mallet to slightly tap it out. It moves better on other set of rods I attached to Custom #7 and goes off much better. I think if it would barely movie it would be noticed by manufacturer's personal.

There is a visual difference how they pressed in. And measurable distance from the collet to fence working surface that doesn't match between the two.

Meanwhile, I've got a reply and will ship it back to the seller for inspection.

[Patrick Chase]

I can only guess how free it supposed to move. But it is moving with some difficulty it tends to stuck on one side or another. Also very hard to remove from the rods. Had to use mallet to slightly tap it out. It moves better on other set of rods I attached to Custom #7 and goes off much better. I think if it would barely movie it would be noticed by manufacturer's personal.

There is a visual difference how they pressed in. And measurable distance from the collet to fence working surface that doesn't match between the two.

Meanwhile, I've got a reply and will ship it back to the seller for inspection.

That sounds like a canted collet. Did you happen to notice whether the rods move freely through the collet when not attached to a plane? (i.e. no angular constraint)

[Glen Canaday]

I only own two LV tools..the cutting gauge with the mortising wheels and the tiny little router. The router is cool even if it's really difficult to get that iron loaded in just right, and the cutting gauge works just like it's supposed to. I prefer the traditional design for a marking gauge because I like a one-handed set, but I have used this one a few times.

But the mortise marking wheels did not impress me in the slightest. I am not a fan of the design to start with (micro-size set screws to fasten to the shaft and total inability to mark less than about 3/8"?) but when they bent on first use in construction pine, they went back into the baggie and haven't seen the light of day since. They were a gift so I didn't want to hurt the sender's feelings by returning them.

I'll stick with an English gauge personally, but they have lots of other stuff in my wish list...like router cutters and maybe the bahco files.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I only own two LV tools..the cutting gauge with the mortising wheels and the tiny little router.

But the mortise marking wheels did not impress me in the slightest. I am not a fan of the design to start with (micro-size set screws to fasten to the shaft and total inability to mark less than about 3/8"?) but when they bent on first use in construction pine, they went back into the baggie and haven't seen the light of day since.


Firstly those wheels are hardened so either you received a dud (and then should have returned it for a replacement) or you accidentally tried to mark a concrete pillar ;)

I'm also not sure what you mean by;
mark less than about 3/8"?

If you have the dual marking gauge, then those wheels can effectively mark a mortise width one ball hair thin. If you mean the length of the mortise, then you're using the wrong tool.

I'm also not sure what your beef is regarding the;
(micro-size set screws to fasten to the shaftYou could swap this out for a 1/2-20 machine screw but I suspect this will affect the balance :cool:.

[Patrick Chase]

If you have the dual marking gauge, then those wheels can effectively mark a mortise width one ball hair thin. If you mean the length of the mortise, then you're using the wrong tool.

He has these (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=60488&cat=1,42936). I have them as well, and saw the same thing - the minimum mortise width is limited to about 3/8 unless you reverse them such that the bevels are on the outside, but that obviously brings its own issues. They also clearly spell out that limitation on the product page so I'm not sure why anybody would be complaining about it after the fact...

I use the dual gauge (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=67466&cat=1,42936) for narrower mortises, which as you say has no such limitations. I still use the wheelset on the single-beam gauge sometimes because it's a little less cumbersome and a little easier to adjust to match the width of a mortise chisel. The trick to doing that on the dual gauge is to retract the inside arm so its wheel is flush to the gauge face, lay the chisel across the gauge face and adjust the outer arm to match, then lock down the shaft clamp (a mandatory accessory that they should just include with the dual gauge IMO) and extend both arms to the desired offset.

The wheels on all of my Veritas gauges are reasonably hard. You can also buy extras fairly cheapy. I keep a couple sets on hand so that I can keep working if I do something silly.

[Dennis Peterson]

Took delivery of the Veritas Shooting Plane and the plane was out of Square by 3 1/2 thousands (.0035) at the tallest point, contacted Vertitas and they said the their tolerances for there planes was .003. I have sent it back as they wanted to inspect the plane, All my Lie Nielsen planes are at most .0015 thou out. So the 3 1/2 thou, is not acceptable to me, for a shooting plane.

So sent an email to Veritas Customer Service, and Shannon in that department sent back this reply... i quote..." In what way was it out of spec, and do you recall how far out of square was it?. We ask because some people do not realize that the plane is intentionally slightly under square so that the plane leans a tiny bit away from the shooting board up to .003" for clearance. If this is what you ran into this is normal. Tha lateral adjustment capability of the blade allows you to ensure the blade cuts your wood square." end quote.
This is not my first rodeo with a plane, but this reply is not consistent with other peoples experience and replies from Veritas, on out of speck planes.
Any body care to reply on this matter?
Thanks
dennis.

[Brian Hale]

I'm curious how you measured .0035"

Brian

[Frederick Skelly]

Took delivery of the Veritas Shooting Plane and the plane was out of Square by 3 1/2 thousands (.0035) at the tallest point, contacted Vertitas and they said the their tolerances for there planes was .003. I have sent it back as they wanted to inspect the plane, All my Lie Nielsen planes are at most .0015 thou out. So the 3 1/2 thou, is not acceptable to me, for a shooting plane.

So sent an email to Veritas Customer Service, and Shannon in that department sent back this reply... i quote..." In what way was it out of spec, and do you recall how far out of square was it?. We ask because some people do not realize that the plane is intentionally slightly under square so that the plane leans a tiny bit away from the shooting board up to .003" for clearance. If this is what you ran into this is normal. Tha lateral adjustment capability of the blade allows you to ensure the blade cuts your wood square." end quote.
This is not my first rodeo with a plane, but this reply is not consistent with other peoples experience and replies from Veritas, on out of speck planes.
Any body care to reply on this matter?
Thanks
dennis.

I'm sorry but I must be missing something, because I don't see anything improper with his response. It sounds like he is trying to understand the problem so he can address it.

They arent BS'ing you about the 0.003 tolerance. They have been consistently forthright about that. In fact, mine came with an insert saying that was so and to adjust the blade accordingly.

I haven't had an ounce of problem adjusting-out the .003 - have you?

Fred

[Dennis Peterson]

Hi Brian, measured with a Mitutoyo 6" master square, that is only used to check tools and is checked with my known cast iron L gauge. So holding up the square to the the plane body and sliding a .0035 shim under the square where the plane shoulder was out you get .0035 out of Square.
So the Veritas Tolerance, i know , is .003 thou and this plane was .0035 so it is out of their tolerance,. by their standards. Also when I make a shooting board it is square, and this is the first time i have herd that they (intentionally) make the plane out of square?, so which is it , the tolerance is .003 or the plane is made out of square, so it does not hit your Square shooting board fence.
i personally would rather have a Square shooting plane that is in tolerance. I have 3 veritas planes and the last two have been out of spec, so 2 out of 3 is not a good track record. When I sent back
the Custom Jointer the service rep said they were having production problems with the custom jointer planes.
Would just like to get an in spec plane that I paid for that's all. with out having to correct something on my part.
thanks For your replies.

[Charles Guest]

I would imagine that 'in spec' encompasses every point between perfectly dead square and whatever the advertised tolerance is, three thousandths I think is the number being quoted. Disclosing this fact doesn't necessarily make it palatable to the guy or gal who gets one at the extreme end of the range. Not every plane that rolls off the line is .003 out, some are perfect and some are at points in-between. Knowing this is how it works would make me a bit of an unhappy camper if I got one at .003 -- just barely in spec. Others received planes in closer tolerance.

Whoever is guaranteeing one at 1.5 thousandths (I think I read this in the thread) has a more sensitive finger on the pulse of the woodworker who would own one of these planes in the first place and probably deserves the business. They are guaranteeing a spec 100% better than the other company. No brainer. Anybody guaranteeing 1. 5 has a lot of confidence in the material and how they're handling it, their design, their machinery, and their employees.

[Derek Cohen]

Took delivery of the Veritas Shooting Plane and the plane was out of Square by 3 1/2 thousands (.0035) at the tallest point, contacted Vertitas and they said the their tolerances for there planes was .003. I have sent it back as they wanted to inspect the plane, All my Lie Nielsen planes are at most .0015 thou out. So the 3 1/2 thou, is not acceptable to me, for a shooting plane.

So sent an email to Veritas Customer Service, and Shannon in that department sent back this reply... i quote..." In what way was it out of spec, and do you recall how far out of square was it?. We ask because some people do not realize that the plane is intentionally slightly under square so that the plane leans a tiny bit away from the shooting board up to .003" for clearance. If this is what you ran into this is normal. Tha lateral adjustment capability of the blade allows you to ensure the blade cuts your wood square." end quote.
This is not my first rodeo with a plane, but this reply is not consistent with other peoples experience and replies from Veritas, on out of speck planes.
Any body care to reply on this matter?
Thanks
dennis.

Dennis, did you try the plane out? Are you deciding that it does not work purely on specs?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Simon MacGowen]

So the Veritas Tolerance, i know , is .003 thou and this plane was .0035 so it is out of their tolerance,. by their standards. Also when I make a shooting board it is square, and this is the first time i have herd that they (intentionally) make the plane out of square?, so which is it , the tolerance is .003 or the plane is made out of square, so it does not hit your Square shooting board fence.
i personally would rather have a Square shooting plane that is in tolerance. I have 3 veritas planes and the last two have been out of spec, so 2 out of 3 is not a good track record. When I sent back
the Custom Jointer the service rep said they were having production problems with the custom jointer planes.
Would just like to get an in spec plane that I paid for that's all. with out having to correct something on my part.
thanks For your replies.

Yes, I agree with you that if it is out of spec. it is out, whether or not they intentionally make their shooting planes a hair out of square. And a 2 out of 3 out of specs record isn't anything anyone would brag about either.

That said, I must say I have never checked any handplanes from Veritas or from anyone else against whatever tolerances they set for their tools. Same for power tools. I have the Veritas shooting plane and shoot pieces dead square, or for that matter, dead mitered (with a miter add on) by adjusting the blade. Is my shooter square or within 0.003"? Frankly, I don't know and I don't care, as I judge its performance by the work it produces, not by its stated spec.

Even if your shooter came dead square, you would not shoot dead square unless your blade was properly set.

Yet, you are entitled to getting a tool within spec as provided by the vendor, and I am confident Veritas will exchange you with one that falls within spec. Money back if they can't find one.

Simon

[Dennis Peterson]

Hi Derek , good to here from you, how are things from down under?
Well, i was going to try it out but after the custom jointer plane I received a couple of months ago, and the way they dropped the ball on handling the whole issue , by the way it was way out of spec. both , length wise and width wise , and the fact it took someone 3 1/2 weeks to even look at the plane, i was a little gun shy on this purchase, when I inspected it, out of the box.

If in fact , as the customer rep said it is designed to be out of Square intentionally, so it would not hit your shooting board fence, that should be published on their web description, but it is not as i suspect they would loose sales on the shooter plane, if that was added to the description. I wonder if LN has the same feeling in Mfg his Shooter?

Any way , i like some of the Veritas tools , but with the response that Shannon replied back to me, it put me back on the wrong foot. I would rather have the plane machined Square, then I can adjust MY shooting board and MY ,plane angle to get me to 90.degrees proper., in stead of the other way around.
So we will see what they say after they get the plane back.
Best to you Derek
Dennis.

[Dennis Peterson]

Just a note to fellow members concerning the Veritas Shooting Plane, as noted in this thread.

Veritas sent me an inspected Shooting plane and I am very happy with it. It specked in at .002thou so very nice. So Cudos to them for their excellent service, and care for this customer.
Dennis.