Broken laser tube on new laser - need advice!

[Keith Winter]

Hi friends,

So I ordered my first Chinese laser, the laser itself is nice, it's a Mars-130 with a EFR ZN-1650 tube. However I drew the short straw on the tube. The tube is completely fried, lasted for less than 30 minutes of cutting. You can see the expanding black spot in the photo below and the top part of the tube just strobes when you are cutting, it does not fire the length of the tube (stopped firing correctly when same time as the black spot spread).

The manufacturer says they have an SPT 130w tube in stock but that seems like an awful trade to me. Switching from the EFR 130w I ordered. They claim it will take 45 days to get another EFR tube, which I called them on and they still insist it will take that long. What are you guys thoughts on this, am I getting screwed if I take the SPT tube? Is a reci tube more of a comparable trade if they will not budge on the EFR? What would you suggest?

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[Gary Hair]

I don't know anything about any of the Chinese tube manufacturers so I don't have an opinion on which is best (or least worst...), but I would tell them you'll take the SPF tube as a loaner until they can get you the EFR, seems very fair to me.

[Dave Sheldrake]

SPT S series are fine, basically a higher rated version of RECI (same layout) but avoid the C series, they are the cheaper versions

[Matt McCoy]

The same tube is available on Ebay with an expected delivery date of about a week. It's probably by DHL, though.

[Keith Winter]

Second question. Let's say I buy a tube and then wait for them to send me the tube I ordered. They say it will take 45 days if I insist on the EFR tube they insist on testing it prior to shipping it to me. This means I would have two tubes that had been fired if only for a few times.

Does the clock start from the first time a chinese tube is fired, or would I be able to expect a couple years shelf life on the spare tube if I stopped using it, and kept in a in a climate controlled room with ac and humidity under control?

[Jerome Stanek]

Second question. Let's say I buy a tube and then wait for them to send me the tube I ordered. They say it will take 45 days if I insist on the EFR tube they insist on testing it prior to shipping it to me. This means I would have two tubes that had been fired if only for a few times.

Does the clock start from the first time a chinese tube is fired, or would I be able to expect a couple years shelf life on the spare tube if I stopped using it, and kept in a in a climate controlled room with ac and humidity under control?

It starts on the day that is stamped on it for warranty

[Dave Sheldrake]

The mechanism of tube failure is pretty complicated brother, much of the time it's oxide contamination (tubes contain tiny amounts of oxygen) after being used that causes them to peg out, that said a tube that has just been test fired then stored will live for *some* time.A tube that has had a significant amount of use then stored won't live very long.

Problem is "some" time is an unknown factor....I've seen stores dead inside 6 months, I've seen stores work fine after 3 years....

Personally I never keep spare tubes these days, given most of mine are between $3,000 and £20,000 it's dead money if they fail before use :(

[Walt Langhans]

It starts on the day that is stamped on it for warranty

I know this to be true... but for some reason seeing it made me chuckle :D

[Keith Winter]

So thunder laser is being completely unreasonable. Trying to pawn off a SPT c series on me instead. They said the "SPT company boss" comes to their factory every week but that even an SPT S series will take a month to send. if he's there every week why can they not replace it with an S series SPT then as an secondary alternative?

Since they are unwilling to budge. I think I might buy one of those ebay EFR tubes as Matt suggested, and wait the month for them to send the proper replacement rather than take a cheapo tube. I ask because I have a couple more to potentially buy at the start of the year, their machine quality was better than expected, but this bait and switch on the tube is irritating. I wonder if I should give them a pass if they get the efr to me in a month or take this as a sign they are bad to do business with? Or is this just par for the course with chinese manufacturers?

[Kev Williams]

Would you consider the 'c' tube if they doubled the warrantee? If so, see what they say- ?

I mean, what the hey-- how long did the 'good' tube last you? ;)

[Keith Winter]

Would you consider the 'c' tube if they doubled the warrantee? If so, see what they say- ?

I mean, what the hey-- how long did the 'good' tube last you? ;)

Haha very true Kev the "good" tube didn't last at all. ;)

They only want to do a SPT C series it's pretty clear, no reason they couldn't just ask their supplier who already supplies to the SPT C to get the SPT S series for me, they even claim it's the same cost. They also claim even claim the "SPT company boss" comes by once a week, if they are so close, a SPT S series wouldn't be any trouble to get. I think they are telling tall tails :cool:.

I can see their side they have more experience with the SPT C since they sell it the most, but it's not good customer service to refuse to replace the same tube that was sold to the customer unless he "waits 30 days for testing". :mad: Lame excuse for digging in their heels because they just don't want to do it I think. My concern is I get the C series tube and it dies in 6 months I'm screwed and completely out. It's rated for 1/3rd the hours of the EFRs. if I get the EFR replacement and it's DOA at least they will send another replacement you know? I'll ask about doubling the warranty, doubt they will do it, but a great idea worth trying. Anyway I just feel like I'm venting now, wound up because I've been talking in circles to China all night, two nights in a row. Going to head to bed now. Have a good evening!

[Dave Sheldrake]

C series in no better than the basic average chinese junker tune Keith :(

The retail price is around half of the S series

[Scott Marquez]

I ask because I have a couple more to potentially buy at the start of the year.
Keith,
Sorry to hear about your problems, since it sounds like you will be purchasing more Chinese machines in the future my suggestion would be to purchase a " spare" tube to get by. Don't give these guys any wiggle room, make them replace your original tube.
Now that you have seen the build quality of a "good" Chinese machine, you might ask around to see which manufacturers are of similar quality. Hopefully they will have better customer service.
Scott

[Matt McCoy]

Can you ask them to refund the cost of the tube (since they can't supply it in a reasonable time) and then purchase a new one from another vendor?

[Keith Winter]

Yeah I'm glad you're here Dave, without your insight into the difference of the tubes I might have got stuck with one of those junkers. Thanks buddy. :)

Thanks Matt, Scott, Kev, and everyone else who has posted. :)

I'm going to make them send me the EFR even if it takes a month, I'll keep it in reserve. The replacement I found on ebay says it will ship via fedex air and be here by next friday. Assuming that goes smoothly I will just put their tube in storage. They want to give me only $600 back for the bad EFR ZN-1650 130w tube (new one is costing me $1350 including shipping + any duties/taxes) or force me to take the junker C series as Dave said, so I think it makes sense to risk it in storage. Christmas is coming up and if I go down it's going to costs me hundreds of dollars a day. Worth the extra money to have it in reserve, especially when they will only credit me a fraction of what a new one costs.


C series in no better than the basic average chinese junker tune Keith :(

The retail price is around half of the S series

[Ron Gosnell]

Hi Keith,

I just read about your dilemma. I feel really bad for you. I am discouraged at Nolans responses to you.
I have personally endorsed Nolan and Thunder Laser to several potential buyers. I have always had a
positive bias towards them and give them high recommendations. I guess I will have to readjust my attitude.

Although I have not had any problems with my equipment it does alarm me that service after the point of sale is that poor on their part.
I believe a new tube should have been sent by air immediately to you. They don't need to test it. Just send it.
In a way I feel responsible for giving you a recommendation and take note that I will not defend them in any way.

Trust is everything in this world and without it we are nothing. I hope it all works out for you and that you do not lose any business from this.

My respects buddy,

Gozzie

[Bill George]

FYI I have purchased items including a tube from LightObject dot com. Located in California they stock tubes and may have what you need on hand.

Well they are out of stock also and here is what the website says.

Reci Z6 130W is out of stock in US warehouse. It must be shipped from China through DHL International Air. Shipping fee is $585 Priced at $1650 ouch!! Plus shipping double ouch.

[Keith Winter]

No need to feel bad Gozzie! It's impossible to tell what a company will do when they have to actually respond to a support request.

I have really mixed emotions on it to be honest. They lied about testing the machine in advance. Which he initially said was part of the "two week testing delay" in shipping the machine. Nolan said they would then when I asked them on how could this have passed a break-in period he claimed they did before sending the laser, he then said the tube manufacturers won't let them so they no longer do that. Then he later claimed "all tubes cost them the same" SPT C SPT S, EFR ZN but when I asked him to refund me for my cost in ordering from someone else because he could not get me a proper replacement he said they would only give me $600 because the ERF F series was $600 and the ZN which was around $1000 was the same cost to them so they could only refund the lesser amount. Really a twisted set of logic going on there. I have to assume the EFR tubes cost them more that's why they want to send me the cheaper SPT C, and wouldn't consider the more comparable SPT S series Dave mentioned either. If I had started with the SPT C this would be no issue, but the EFR costs about $500-$600 more in the 130w here in the US. I'd be shorting myself a lot of money, and have not as good of a tube. The thing they are really concerned about is getting a second video so they can get a refund on the tube. I feel they are changing their tune however it suits them. I'm not getting anywhere with Nolan so I just ordered the other tube and I'll wait for them to send me an EFR replacement as a spare.

That being said, I was very pleasantly surprised with the quality of the machine in the 30 minutes it lasted (the tube aside :p). The build quality appears to be good, the table was level, it appears to be fairly in focus, the cords are all neatly bundled, the doors all fit nicely, no off square surfaces or hinges on the doors that don't line up, worked correctly on the very first power up, software was easy to install, they sent a few spare nuts and parts even. The Z up and down of the table was smooth, the XY movement is very smooth, so far in my brief tests I was ecstatic about the quality of the machine. Better built than 99% of all chinese lasers I read about, and I read about ALL of them. I read every single post I could find on here since Roney Gold went to China all the way to present, and also most of them on cnc laser forum. Probably over 200 threads and thousands of posts prior to buying.

So that's where the mixed feelings come in. Superior build quality but a bad experience with support on the tube. Support on other things might be better. Example: If my lcd panel was bad for instance, it's unlikely they would try to send me another brand, they would just send me the same one since it's the same on all of their lasers. Anyway this is the thought my brain keeps tossing around... Build quality is probably more important than the support. The build quality will last, but the support will end after a year or two. At least that's the way I'm reasoning it out right now, if they mess-up again I reserve the right to change that thought ;)

[Dave Sheldrake]

You can pretty much count on support ending when you reach #10 on the "is the customers machine not working" song sheet. Nature of chinese machine assemblers sadly :(

[Keith Winter]

You can pretty much count on support ending when you reach #10 on the "is the customers machine not working" song sheet. Nature of chinese machine assemblers sadly :(

Exactly what I'm thinking. So dave would you say build quality is more important than service on most Chinese machines? If you had to choose one? Just thinking if I should exclude them for future deals or not based on this, as the machine build quality is quite nice...

[Dave Sheldrake]

hard call my friend, A well built machine doesn't need to weigh as much as the average house to be good. Most of my Chinese machines are HX (King Rabbit) and the build quality is very very good, slim line rails and panel section but quality welding rather than just spots or hand welded fillets.

For me service is really important, I'm not a believer in buying a load of spare parts in case something I paid good money for goes wrong, that in reality is down to the supplier to fix. If they recommend buying a load of spares to save postage in reality that's usually because all the Chinese sales staff are commission and target based and are trying to make the numbers for the month and is rarely about making the customer happy (If I'd paid £100k for my Merc and they wanted me to buy a load of engine spares I wouldn't have been a happy bunny).

Spares are there to remove a lot of support problems for China, not to help the buyer :)

In general across all the machine builders support is close to worthless, they have a sheet that the sales girls use to diagnose problems and if they reach the end they usually just say "Buy this new part or that new part"...

Actually I'd prefer it if they made machines that didn't turn up broken.

The truth of it all is that the cabinets are just steel sheet with one of usually 3 sets of electronics that none of the companies make, few ,very few Chinese sellers actually make the machines they sell so support is essential.

If I was in the position you are, it would be a very short email...along the lines of "fix this or read about for the next 3 lifetimes"....your current experience would stop me buying from Thunder for sure. The tube may be Thunders fault, it may be a bad tube from EFR but the way they have dealt with it would make me very wary of giving them money in future.

After all, you paid Thunder...not EFR, what happens between EFR and Thunder is between them and shouldn't include you.

If I called Chris at HPC over here on a new machine and the tube died within a day it would be a phonecall and I know it would be sorted with no cost or delays to my workload.

Put it this way...a Chinese flatbed goes down for a month due to bad service and it will have cost me more than the machine by the end of that month :(

[Keith Winter]

Thanks Dave for putting this into perspective. You are truly an expert of experts. Excellent food for thought.





hard call my friend, A well built machine doesn't need to weigh as much as the average house to be good. Most of my Chinese machines are HX (King Rabbit) and the build quality is very very good, slim line rails and panel section but quality welding rather than just spots or hand welded fillets.

For me service is really important, I'm not a believer in buying a load of spare parts in case something I paid good money for goes wrong, that in reality is down to the supplier to fix. If they recommend buying a load of spares to save postage in reality that's usually because all the Chinese sales staff are commission and target based and are trying to make the numbers for the month and is rarely about making the customer happy (If I'd paid £100k for my Merc and they wanted me to buy a load of engine spares I wouldn't have been a happy bunny).

Spares are there to remove a lot of support problems for China, not to help the buyer :)

In general across all the machine builders support is close to worthless, they have a sheet that the sales girls use to diagnose problems and if they reach the end they usually just say "Buy this new part or that new part"...

Actually I'd prefer it if they made machines that didn't turn up broken.

The truth of it all is that the cabinets are just steel sheet with one of usually 3 sets of electronics that none of the companies make, few ,very few Chinese sellers actually make the machines they sell so support is essential.

If I was in the position you are, it would be a very short email...along the lines of "fix this or read about for the next 3 lifetimes"....your current experience would stop me buying from Thunder for sure. The tube may be Thunders fault, it may be a bad tube from EFR but the way they have dealt with it would make me very wary of giving them money in future.

After all, you paid Thunder...not EFR, what happens between EFR and Thunder is between them and shouldn't include you.

If I called Chris at HPC over here on a new machine and the tube died within a day it would be a phonecall and I know it would be sorted with no cost or delays to my workload.

Put it this way...a Chinese flatbed goes down for a month due to bad service and it will have cost me more than the machine by the end of that month :(

[Nolan Yang]

Hi, all user in this forum,
this is Nolan from Thunder Laser, we have solved this problems with Keith.

[Keith Winter]

Hello all. So to give you all an update... After King from Thunder Laser (manager) jumped on the cnc forum they have refunded me the $1350 for the tube I had to air mail in as a replacement. My laser tube died on 10/8 and I got the air mail replacement I ordered today and got it going this afternoon 10/20, so 12 days I was down. Nolan also said they mailed me another EFR ZN-1650 tube free of charge, DHL has contacted me about it so I know it's on the way.


So far most everything has been good aside from the bad tube and having realign everything after replacing the tube. I was also experiencing an issue with the engraving being darker in the middle of the text than the sides, and the top and bottom of cuts, but this seems to have gotten better with the realignment I did today. The bed appears to be level, all of the wires and electronics appear to be secured and neatly tied away, the software is working (very limited on the features I have tried at this point) and it's cutting wood like butter so far.


I'll know more in a couple weeks once I have more experience with it, and learn more of the software. However, I can say I am VERY pleased with the cutting quality of the Thunder Laser with the EFR ZN-1650 tube in my initial tests.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I might buy a thunder machine just to review it, something with a ZN1850 and possibly a flatbed sized thing.....

You can be pretty sure it will be comming apart as soon as it arrives for a full breakdown ;)

Edit: Just looked...a Mars 160 it is then :)

Who did you contact to buy Keith?

[Ron Gosnell]

Great news Keith,

I'm glad that you got it all worked out. I know it's been an ordeal for you.

Gozzie

[Keith Winter]

Thanks Gozzie, glad they resolved it as well.

Hi Dave. My salesperson was the same as Gozzie's:
Nolan AT thunderlaser DOT com

Also I've been dealing with King (the boss) a bit too. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Steve Morris]

amazing what a bit of publicity can achieve ;)

[Keith Winter]

I got the refund and the spare tube. I can tell they tested it, it has water in it unlike the first tube. So I'm sure it will work but I'm wondering about this flaw in the nipple area though. Those with chinese tube experience, will this lead to premature failure? Is this anything to worry about ?
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