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Braden Todd
10-07-2015, 3:30 PM
Has anyone had any experience with these mimaki printers? I'm curious how well they'd work on laser cut shapes in metal, acrylic, etc.

I saw one running at the nbm show in Denver, but I'm curious if they work as well as they're advertised and if the ink truly sticks well to all substrates.

Or if anyone has a better uv solution I'd love to hear that too.

Thanks!!

Scott Shepherd
10-07-2015, 6:13 PM
Mimaki doesn't have the best reputation in UV flatbeds on larger machines. Their little machines are awesome, probably the best in the business. The larger ones, not so much.

Flatbed printers are an interesting thing. I've seen so many complaints about so many of them. Seems they are all a little prone to issues. I haven't found one yet that gets rave reviews. The CET's are decent and they have been getting better. You need to look and see who makes the print head. There's only a couple of people that make them, and some are really good and some aren't as good. I spoke to a Mimaki sales person not long ago and they told me they wouldn't recommend the large format Mimaki. If that's coming from the people that rep them, then I'd be careful with it.'

If you can make it to Atlanta in a month, then that's the place to do the research. It's the SGIA Show and it's a monster of a show. Everyone with a flatbed will be there. You'll see things you didn't even know existed.

As far as the UV inks sticking, they stick really well.

Mike Null
10-08-2015, 8:22 AM
I know a couple of people with the smaller Mimaki's and they don't adhere well to some substrates. Neither of them has found the machine to be profitable either but that may be their own marketing problem.

Glen Monaghan
10-08-2015, 10:09 AM
There is a "conditioner" or "primer" that you can spray on to promote adhesion on problematic surfaces. I was testing some of the UV printers at an NBM show and found the prints tended to pop off a powder coated substrate I was using for the tests. After applying the spray, the prints adhered quite well.

Scott Shepherd
10-08-2015, 10:19 AM
The Mimaki's have built in Primer as one of their ink sets. If you use that, it lays down a clear primer to increase adhesion, but there are certainly some known problem materials for UV flatbeds, metal and glass being a few.

Braden Todd
10-08-2015, 10:54 AM
Figures that I'd want to go full on with metal and it being one of the tricky substrates. I sent in for information from CET to see what all they have to offer, thank you for the tip Scott. I'm curious why the mimaki rep told you to stay away from their flat bed unit, would you mind letting me know what they said the issues were? I looked at the print head and all I could find was that it was a piezo.

I thought about the table top sized units, but I'm afraid of the ink not coming in bulk and getting expensive to run through and the overall speed for what I am trying to accomplish. Now it was the rep that told me this but it seems to make sense, he said one large unit will have the output of 6 smaller units.

I am hoping to run off metal pieces on the laser today to send in for sample printing, I'll keep you guys posted on the results.

Thanks for for all the advice and input!!

Kev Williams
10-08-2015, 11:08 AM
I've been giving thought to a UV printer, I know very little about them other than what they do is pretty cool, and they cost a bloody fortune..

"haven't heard any rave reviews" etc... Sounds like the whole 'industry' is in beta mode.

One of my customers bought a small UV printer a few years ago, to custom-print watch faces with it. They could never get the high detail or precision positioning required, so they sold the thing.

Guess for now I'll stick to swivel-knives, spinning carbide tools and laser beams... :)

Scott Shepherd
10-08-2015, 12:23 PM
The general overview that I get of them all is that when they work, they are awesome. The problem is they are very touchy about what they need and when things aren't working right, I've seen horror stories from all of the manufacturers, from the customer standpoint of feeling abandoned. I've seen a number of stories where the printer isn't working or won't stay running and it's a year later and they still can't make it run and the factory seems content with repeatedly flying techs out over and over and over. I've seen examples where people say that the machine rocks, and it's the best running thing they have ever bought, and in the same thread, someone posts that it's the worst mistake in business that they've ever made because they can't keep it up and running.

They are complicated beasts. For example, let's say that the head height is supposed to be 1.5mm from the work face. You have 2" tall items, you set it 1.5mm above that. It prints great. However, you can't do that, because the 2" drop off causes the ink to swirl around in an eddy and stick back to the print head. Then it's UV hardened, so you're cooking the ink that's being sucked back up into the print head area. Instead, you're supposed to block it off or build a jig to make sure that there's not a 2" drop next to the print area for that item.

I've also seen humidity levels cause people's machines to do really odd, random stuff. Those are hard to trace issues, I suppose, when you don't know what you don't know. Add to that dampers, wipers, etc, made from rubber, and it's just a miracle that any of them stay running to me.

I suspect most of the issues are user errors that are making things go wrong, but in the end, I've seen all of the big names leave customers hanging out there. This is one case where support would be critical. If I didn't have someone I could have in my shop in a short period of time, I wouldn't be buying one. Plus, we'd make sure there was a clear understanding of what's going to happen if the machine turns out to be a lemon, and what the milestones are for replacing something like that.

Keith Bielat
10-08-2015, 12:27 PM
When researching for my purchase I heard lots of stories of downtime, troubleshooting, and fixing of the large bed printers. I wasn't looking to purchase a large bed but I knew a few people who did own one from different companies so wanted to hear their thoughts. I did end up with a Mimaki 6042 (16.5" x 24" bed) and am happy with it. It just allowed me to do more items in house instead of sending out to have some processes done. It does have limitations and there are a few materials that do not work well with it, but with primer it works on most of my and my customers items.

Braden Todd
10-08-2015, 10:28 PM
When researching for my purchase I heard lots of stories of downtime, troubleshooting, and fixing of the large bed printers. I wasn't looking to purchase a large bed but I knew a few people who did own one from different companies so wanted to hear their thoughts. I did end up with a Mimaki 6042 (16.5" x 24" bed) and am happy with it. It just allowed me to do more items in house instead of sending out to have some processes done. It does have limitations and there are a few materials that do not work well with it, but with primer it works on most of my and my customers items.


What all materials would you say do not work well? I was also looking at the 6042 but I thought the larger I went the better off I'd be in the future, but that seems to not be the case with the potential equipment issues.

Thanks!

Keith Bielat
10-09-2015, 11:36 AM
I haven't really had time to try out everything yet (I have a pile of ToDo testing that I feel like I may never get to with how busy things can be). Any metals with lacquer (tested with stainless steel tumblers and a few other stainless items) does not hold up, even with a primer. Mainly what I do is acrylic, engraving plastic, engraving metal sheet stock, finished wood/veneers. I use the LH-100 inks CMYKClPWW setup. I have found the white ink doesn't have the same strength bond as the other colors, but has rarely been an issue, just something I noticed.

Braden Todd
10-09-2015, 12:41 PM
I haven't really had time to try out everything yet (I have a pile of ToDo testing that I feel like I may never get to with how busy things can be). Any metals with lacquer (tested with stainless steel tumblers and a few other stainless items) does not hold up, even with a primer. Mainly what I do is acrylic, engraving plastic, engraving metal sheet stock, finished wood/veneers. I use the LH-100 inks CMYKClPWW setup. I have found the white ink doesn't have the same strength bond as the other colors, but has rarely been an issue, just something I noticed.

When you say metals with lacquer, do you mean ones that have been sealed already? My desire is to be able to use this on raw steel and then use their sealer on top, but if it wont stick to that I will be finding a new option I guess.

Thank you for your advice and input!

Scott Shepherd
10-09-2015, 12:56 PM
Braden, I suspect raw steel is going to be a problem. I say that from just from being around them a little. I have never once seen any of my customers printing on raw metal, ever. Not saying it can't be done, just saying that I've seen a lot of different products made on them and I have yet to see anyone printing on raw steel. If someone can do that, I'd like to know as well. If you find out they will, please report back, I'd like to know.

Braden Todd
10-09-2015, 1:01 PM
Braden, I suspect raw steel is going to be a problem. I say that from just from being around them a little. I have never once seen any of my customers printing on raw metal, ever. Not saying it can't be done, just saying that I've seen a lot of different products made on them and I have yet to see anyone printing on raw steel. If someone can do that, I'd like to know as well. If you find out they will, please report back, I'd like to know.

Will do Scott, I like to push the envelope as much as possible here. Maybe mimaki would want to send me a unit for r and d to help them with a new market possibility!

I should know next week if it'll work, I am cutting the steel and shipping it out today to their facility for samples.

Keith Bielat
10-09-2015, 2:17 PM
I would probably say no on the raw steel, but no harm in letting them try and prove us wrong!

edit: They do have a selection of primers that are suppose to be geared towards certain materials. I received a sample pack with my machine, but haven't used it much yet. According to the packaging there are 2 primers that are good to use with metals, but I have no experience with them yet. They might use different primers if you ask to in your sample request.

Braden Todd
10-10-2015, 10:02 PM
Mimaki doesn't have the best reputation in UV flatbeds on larger machines. Their little machines are awesome, probably the best in the business. The larger ones, not so much.

Flatbed printers are an interesting thing. I've seen so many complaints about so many of them. Seems they are all a little prone to issues. I haven't found one yet that gets rave reviews. The CET's are decent and they have been getting better. You need to look and see who makes the print head. There's only a couple of people that make them, and some are really good and some aren't as good. I spoke to a Mimaki sales person not long ago and they told me they wouldn't recommend the large format Mimaki. If that's coming from the people that rep them, then I'd be careful with it.'

If you can make it to Atlanta in a month, then that's the place to do the research. It's the SGIA Show and it's a monster of a show. Everyone with a flatbed will be there. You'll see things you didn't even know existed.

As far as the UV inks sticking, they stick really well.

Just found out that mimaki and the CET's have the same Ricoh Gen 5 print heads.

Still anxiously awaiting my samples!