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Keith Winter
10-07-2015, 10:17 AM
Hello friends!

I just got back from drinking some fantastic microbrews and the Broncos game in Colorado last weekend. While there, I stopped by one of my suppliers to meet them in person and they showed me around their shop. In the laser room I was shocked to find they had 3 older universal lasers powered by one networked pc. They print the job and when they print they tell it which laser it should go to. The laser then receives the job and prints once they hit the go key. On thier larger and newer 4th laser it even had a menu you could scroll and pick jobs from.

It was a huge space saver compared to my one pc per one Trotec layout I have now. Why I started doing this, was when I'm running a job on my Trotec it noticeably slows down the pc, not to a crawl, but definitely enough that it hinders productivity. Also each of my Trotecs is typically doing a different job.

Interested to hear your thoughts... I'm wondering if this is just a limitation of the Trotec job control, and the Trotecs being reliant on a pc to run, or if there is a better way to do jobs on multiple Trotec lasers?

Braden Todd
10-07-2015, 11:05 AM
Glad you got to make it to Colorado! It's tough living here with the microbreweries everywhere and the sun beating down on you while you're in the mountains!

I use one laptop to run both of my epilog lasers and my kern has its own dedicated computer. Our Epilogs run off a Ethernet cable so I just switch the cable to send jobs to the desired laser. I've considered adding a network to stop switching the cable, but it only takes a second and I know it works!

Good luck!

Brian Leavitt
10-07-2015, 11:35 AM
ULS started making it so you can only run one laser per computer, which is why I did NOT buy one the last time I got a new laser at the shop. Opinions differ on this, but the last thing I want is to have to jump on different computers to run different lasers. To me, that just seems inefficient (again - opinion). I run the three I have at the shop from a single PC - two older ULS machines and the Epilog.

I think it has to do with the way the machines handle files. From what I read, Trotec's and newer ULS machines rely on the computer to do the processing, and thus require the PC connection and PC's processing power to operate. With my machines, I send the file over and the lasers handle the rest. I could turn off my computer while a job is running on any of my machines and they would be unaffected, which is the way I like it.

Kev Williams
10-07-2015, 1:19 PM
One machine per computer? That's ridiculous! Look at my signature, I'd have to have a separate building just for all the keyboards & monitors!

Specifically speaking on driving machines- my main computer 'area' consists of 3 computers- a win98 that drives one 5000XT, and 'sometimes' the small 5000 (which is still usually connected to its original Motorola proprietary), an older Compaq/XP that houses 3 hard drives and acts as my main file storage, plus its loaded with LPT and serial ports for the machines run thru the network, and a Dell/XP that's my 'hub' computer. From the Dell I run the ULS, the LS900, the other 5000XT, two 3400's and my vinyl cutter. The only reason I don't run the second XT from this computer is the machines limit in Gravostyle (which I can increase for more $$$).

About 4' away, my win8 computer runs only my IS400. I could run it from the Dell, but Gravostyle 5 and 7 running on the same computer bogs it down. I could also run the IS400 from Gravo 5 but I lose the point 'n shoot functions. My Gravo 7 is just 'entry level' so I can't just use it in the Dell... always something!

In my garage shop, my win7 computer runs 3 machines; my 3400 cylinder machine, the IS7000 and the Triumph...

My BIL runs the Concept machine exclusively, so he has his own computer for that. It also runs the 3200, which doesn't get used much...

My whole business is packed into our 1200 sq. foot house. "Packed" is an understatement! If these newer machines with their fancy "machine controls" make running 2 machines off one computer impractical or impossible, people like me working with limited space will never be able to use them...

Dan Hintz
10-07-2015, 4:19 PM
Should you decide that one computer per machine is all you can do with the systems you have (or plan to get), consider a KVM switch. The systems can be "hidden" and you only have one keyboard, mouse, and monitor to worry about.

Mike Null
10-07-2015, 4:59 PM
I used to operate 2 Epilogs with one pc using parallel cables. That was almost 20 years ago. Today I use 2 pc's with a a KVM switch but that's due to the need to use an XP machine for my Newing Hall.

My Trotec did slow the pc before I updated JC but I don't know about running two of them on one pc.

Gary Gardner
10-07-2015, 5:56 PM
I have a trotec speedy 100 and now have a speedy 300 on the way. I was told by trotec that I need to supply a separate computer for the new machine. When you install job control on your computer you need to register it to the serial number of the laser so that is an issue but I was told the computer needs to be dedicated to a single laser.

Kev Williams
10-07-2015, 7:02 PM
I love KVM switches but they don't love me. I have a half dozen or so KVM switches that don't work anymore. They last about a year, then pffftt.

My true love now is "remote desktop". I can run almost any computer FROM almost any computer. "Almost" meaning win98 don't do remote, and I
refuse to use it with Win8 due to not being able to override the password function. (I don't know why they MAKE you use a password when you don't NEED one!!) :mad:

Keith Winter
10-08-2015, 12:57 PM
Should you decide that one computer per machine is all you can do with the systems you have (or plan to get), consider a KVM switch. The systems can be "hidden" and you only have one keyboard, mouse, and monitor to worry about.

I'll have to check into this, thanks Dan!

Kev that's exactly what I was wondering. I think it might be a limitation of the trotecs and the newer universals as Brian said. They have great software but this might be the drawback. It also slows the a bit machine when running (new quad core 16gb ram computers) using some of the computer processing power to run. I'm thinking your machines don't do that, the machine does all the processing likely.

I'll look into the KVM switch as you all have suggested. On dual monitor setups, does it lag or make mistakes at all when using one of these switches in programs like adobe illustrator (corel for those of you on that software instead :) and job control?

Anyone successfully running two or more trotec lasers off one computer? Alternatively has anyone tried the networked trotec features where you print the jobs into a spool pool on one pc, the design pc, then all the laser pcs get updated with the job files in near real time and then you just choose the art on the laser pc and go?

Chris Edens
10-10-2015, 7:15 PM
Just use Dropbox to sync design files to all the computers. Easy and no networking BS.

Kev Williams
10-10-2015, 8:47 PM
Seriously, how much computer power can it take to tell a Trotec or Epilog what to do, considering a plain old print spooler and a USB2 port can feed most jobs into a typical machine buffer within seconds...??

...if I was Trotec or Epilog, the LAST thing I'd do is engineer is a way to cripple the computer running the machine. I'm sure "job control" is nice, but there's NO reason it can't be done AT the machine...

Scott Shepherd
10-10-2015, 9:00 PM
Seriously, how much computer power can it take to tell a Trotec or Epilog what to do, considering a plain old print spooler and a USB2 port can feed most jobs into a typical machine buffer within seconds...??

...if I was Trotec or Epilog, the LAST thing I'd do is engineer is a way to cripple the computer running the machine. I'm sure "job control" is nice, but there's NO reason it can't be done AT the machine...

Sure there is, I can look at 1000's of jobs I've run before, pull up a job I ran 6 months ago and run it again or see the settings, I can grab multiple jobs and put them on one plate without opening Corel or anything else. Also, all updates to the system are in the computer so you are never stuck with legacy hardware on the machine.

Dont knock it until you try it. I'd never go back to a machine that didn't run off a job control system, and we own machines that use both methods.

We havent seen the machines slowing down at all. On our computer we drive the Trotec with, it runs a $5000 RIP that drives our wide format printer as well. It's not uncommon to be running the laser, our wide format printer, and jobs to out Summa plotter as well, so I'm not sure where the slowdown is from.

Mike Null
10-11-2015, 12:21 PM
I run 5 printers from the same pc that i use to create art and run the Trotec. (One is a postage printer, two sublimation printers, a card printer and and HP for invoices etc.)

Keith Winter
10-11-2015, 12:45 PM
Slowdown is Adobe Illustrator is a memory hog :) Seriously though it's really slow to print another job to the Trotec job control while it's running. Makes cuing up jobs doable but not as fast as it normally would be. Might be if you were just cuing up jobs while the laser was running for other devices like a large format printer and other devices that aren't the laser that you wouldn't experience noticeable delay. That's not really what I'm talking about... I'm talking about cuing up new jobs for the same laser and printing them to job control is when I experience the slowdowns. Still workable, but slower. Happens on all 3 of my trotec lasers and pcs, so it's not pc specific.

As for the benefits of Trotec job control. Even if you can run only one laser per pc with job control. The power to save and reopen jobs like Steve said is amazing. Also the ability to create plates you can drop work into without having to create them in corel is a huge time saver. I can also load a dozen or more jobs on one plate without opening corel. I can even drag and old saved job from an old plate onto a new plate with new settings along with other old saved jobs without corel. Again a huge time saver. Any trade off of having to have an extra $500 pc to run job control is well worth it in any production environment.

What I'm wanting to explore is potential methods to run two or more Trotec lasers via one pc AND still be able to have job control. However if that's how it has to be I'll gladly take job control over anything else. If I did more repeative cut jobs or exactly repeating jobs of hundreds or thousands, no job control would be fine. However I do dozens, sometimes hundreds of small jobs, each slightly different, each changing every day, for which job control is well suited. That being said it does take up significant space to have a pc for every laser, and the operator has to go machine to machine to machine, that's why I started this thread. To think outside the box, get the benefits of Trotec Job control but take less space to run those lasers.

Make sense? :confused:

Keith Winter
10-11-2015, 1:05 PM
Kev having recently gotten a chinese machine I see you point here, the software is much more simple and "transfers" to the laser then you hit play to run it on the laser. This works great and has it's benefits. Downside is you loose a lot of the powerful features of job control, and it's also significantly slower to setup multiple jobs at once than it is in job control since multiple jobs can be dragged into one plate in job control. You also loose the ability to repeat jobs in the exactly the same spot over and over days or even weeks later. Lot of features in that job control that if you don't have it you don't know what you're missing, but once you have it, it's hard to go back. ;)



Seriously, how much computer power can it take to tell a Trotec or Epilog what to do, considering a plain old print spooler and a USB2 port can feed most jobs into a typical machine buffer within seconds...??

...if I was Trotec or Epilog, the LAST thing I'd do is engineer is a way to cripple the computer running the machine. I'm sure "job control" is nice, but there's NO reason it can't be done AT the machine...

Scott Shepherd
10-11-2015, 6:00 PM
Keith, I don't have any insight into Austria, but in my years of dealing with Trotec, one thing I have learned. They don't get in a hurry about anything new when it comes to software. They are VERY methodical and calculated. If there's a way to do it, I'm sure it's in the pipeline. 4 years ago, I heard there was a Mac driver coming. Still haven't seen it. I also haven't seen any digital "Suggestion Box" for them either :) I wish there was. Just my personal opinion, but I believe the European market users are quite different than the US market users. I my conversation with the guy that wrote JCX, I got the impression that I didn't understand how the software was supposed to be used, and how it was being used by their European base. I think they missed that the US market and the European market work differently. I don't even think they acknowledge that we are different. I could be wrong, that's just my impression.

The only thing I see causing slowdowns is the splwow (maybe I spelled that wrong) file gets massive. That resource will build and build and build until it's using 4GB of memory. I've never figured out how to fix that. Only thing I have found to get around it is rebooting windows more frequently.

I spoke with Epilog at a trade show and they are going the opposite direction you asked about. Instead of running more lasers with less computers, they are working on being able to send files from any computer to one laser.

I haven't heard anyone talk about doing what you're asking, as a new feature. I'll start asking around in my travels through the laser dealers :)

Keith Winter
10-11-2015, 6:37 PM
Thanks Steve.

They do have a feature, in a two laser example, the third pc makes the jobs it also acts as a master spooler the other two three or even ten computers pull jobs from. Problem here is I still have to drag that job onto the computer attached to the laser. And I have even one more computer in the mix lol. :rolleyes: Would be nice if that spooler computer ran the job control for the two other lasers as well and an operator just had to press the play button on the laser. Also if jobs could be cycled through on an lcd screen on the laser like the new universals (their latest software has come a long way) for those that do repeatative jobs. I'm not complaining I love my Trotec and job control, just thinking of ways to save space and do things more efficiently, my engraving room is getting quite full ;)

Scott Shepherd
10-11-2015, 6:55 PM
LOL, I hear you Keith! The Universal's have been doing that for a long, long time. Our 8 year old PLS has the screen you can cycle through. I wish people in Austria, mainly the developers were on this forum and we could interact with them. If they understood what we use on a daily basis, I think it would radically change their direction and speed.

They are rock solid, but man, they are slow and calculated on their improvements. I suspect that's why their machines rock. They don't make sudden or hasty decisions and aren't chasing the latest fads, just continuously improving and refining their products.

Kev Williams
10-11-2015, 7:48 PM
With all due respect to you guys, I hear nothing about 'job control' that I don't already do with Corel every day.

Every job I've ever done in 14 years (aside from off-the-street stuff or basic nameplates, etc) I have saved in Corel, by customer name, description and date, and I can recall them within seconds.
Every job that has specific settings I can save right in the print driver. I also have many 'generic' settings saved. Likewise, recall within seconds...

If I want to find a job I saved for Tradestar in October of 2004, and another job I saved last week, I open both jobs, copy one of them and paste it into the other, re-position the 2 jobs, group what I want lasered, hit the 'print' icon, hit the drop down menu, click on "500-800 with cut" (my basic lasermark setting), hit "ok" and "print" and away we go...

Takes me about 1 minute to do all that. And while that job's running, I can work on or recall and stack more jobs into the machine. Also, the way I have my network set up, I can access any job from any computer (both Corel and Gravostyle) and can send jobs to both lasers from any computer (except my useless win8). Works the same way with most of my rotary machines too...

FWIW, when doing laser work, I never enter a 'plate size'. I always work with the machine's table size. So, wherever it was on the table when I did it, it'll be in the exact same place next time. If I need to add to the job, I just add to it...

I'm not saying my way's better or the job-control on those things isn't a great tool, but for how I work, I believe it would slow me down...

Scott Shepherd
10-11-2015, 7:53 PM
And with all due respect to you Kev, until you try it, don't knock it. I started with an Epilog and did the same thing as you. After using the Universal's version of Job Control and Trotec's, there's a LOT that it will do outside of Corel Draw.

I don't have to type any settings into Corel, or even open Corel. If you started using it, you'd understand it's power. Many of us have done it both ways and we now wouldn't live without it. I suspect once you had it, you'd think the same thing, especially with all your years and experience. You'd be able to make it really shine.

It's just a lot simpler than having to combine files in Corel and move things all around. I know it's a long shot, but I hope one day you get a machine that has it because I think it would serve you well.

Gary Hair
10-11-2015, 8:10 PM
I have a customer that I mark 17 different parts with any combination and quantity of over 135 designs - thousands of parts every week. The parts are all different height (thickness), and some need the power/speed settings a bit different than the others due to the way they anodize them. I have each part saved in JCX with all of the parameters for that part, right down to the focus height! I don't have to do anything at the laser besides load and unload trays of parts. I select the tray I loaded from the list of jobs, click "AutoFocus" and then the "Go" button, lather, rinse, repeat. I loved my old laser but JCX is so different and so powerful that anything else I have seen pales in comparison. Oh, and if I notice that I sent the job to JCX with the wrong settings, I can change them in JCX, even on the fly! Oh, and when the job is done running it notifies me on my phone... it's only 3' away, but it's still cool :)