Contact Cement Question

[Tony Falotico]

About to experience my first attempt at formica laminate. I remember my childhood days in my father's shop and the pungent oder of contact cement.

Now a days they have two contact cements to choose from, the regular (I assume the same stuff Dad used), and the Water-based / odorless type. Is the odorless / Water-based type good or should I stick to the (Mineral?) based type??



Also -- Side Bar Question ---- I tried to search Contact Cement and it found all posts with the word contact and / or Cement. I tried 'contact cement' and got the same results. Is it possible to search a phrase and get just the phrase ?? If so, HOW ??

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Tony. I just finished putting Wilsonart laminate on the top of the miter saw stand/cabinet I am building. I bought the Wilsonart cement along with the laminate from the orange borg.

The cement smells, but not outrageously. The directions recommend two coats of cement over plywood. My process was to put one coat on the plywood substrate and let is dry to the touch. Then I put a single coat on the laminate and another on the plywood. When mating the two, I used a dowel rod every foot and started at the middle removing a dowel and rolling the area. I then proceeded to one side one dowel at a time. I then went back to the center and repeated the process toward the other side.

Another bear skint ;)

Regarding the search, go to the advanced search feature on Google and it has an option for the exact phrase. :)

[Russ Massery]

Ditto what Ken said on the water based stuff two coats is mandatory. I use solvent base mostly.

[Lee DeRaud]

I've had excellent results with Titebond "Neoprene Contact Cement Plus" for veneer...no reason to think it wouldn't be just as good for laminate. Nearly odorless, goes on kind of a turquoise blue and turns green as it dries: ready to go when you don't see any blue left.

[Tony Falotico]

Regarding the search, go to the advanced search feature on Google and it has an option for the exact phrase. :)

Thanks Ken, Sorry I wasn't specific, I'm referring to search feature at SMC ..........

[Steve Aiken]

Put the phrase in double quotation marks, like "contact cement." The SMC search tool supports this architecture. You can also click on search, then select the "advanced search" link.

Steve

[Cecil Arnold]

Tony, I used the water based contact cement on my router table top (BB with laminate over) about 4 years ago and have not had a problem with it. I did, however, store the can in the garage and when I tried to use it last year it had gone bad, so the shelf life is limited in our kind of heat.

[Bart Leetch]

Just don't use water based contact cement for gluing new laminate over old laminate where you strip off the old edges & back-splash & just sand the old top. The new top will not stay stuck down to the old top over time.

I was told this by 2 different counter installers. They will only use water based contact cement for a all brand new installation on a new substrate.

Another trick is to use a extension cord between the laminate & the substrate. After the glue is dry to the touch just zig zag the cord back & forth front to back & lay the laminate on top of it & start in the middle removing & sticking the laminate down & working toward the ends rolling or tapping the laminate down . This is how the laminate installer did it for the kitchens & baths here at the apartment complexes. I ask why he used the extension cord. He said it works great & I don't have to carry anything more then the tools I need.

[Steve Clardy]

I use 3M water base glue. At 65.00 per gallon.
As above, with water base, 2 coats on your substrate, as it soaks it up.

[Tony Falotico]

I bought a small can of Weldwood Water Based at the blue borg, I'll try it out tomorrow and see what happens. The humidity has been pretty high (currently 83%), so it may take some time to tack up, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Tony Falotico]

A friend and I laminated a 3/4" plywood sheet he will use as a sanding table on his back porch (he builds and flys radio controlled aircraft). I used the Weldwood water based contact cement. Not sure I liked it. Painted a good coat on the plywood, let it set 20 minutes, painted a second coat -- first coat on laminate, waited 40 minutes and applied. It DID NOT have the contact we thought it would (should), ended up clamping the edges down and letting it set for another 1/2 hour.

The laminate I used was some scrap pieces I had purchased. they were rolled up and taped, don't know how many years ago and sat in a hot warehouse. Darn things wouldn't flatten out no matter how much we tried!! I will definitely lay the rest out in the back of my truck under cement blocks and let 'em sit in the sun for a day or two before using anymore. Bottom line, the roll in the laminate was stronger than the contact cement.

Basically, for what it is, the job was a success, not something I would take $$ for. Messed up with the flush trim bit and gouged along two spots on the side.

Next time I'm gonna use the mineral based stuff and see if it sticks better.

[Norman Hitt]

Tony, sounds like your experience with the water based contact cement is the same as I had the few times I tried to use it. I know many use it and swear by it, but I personally will never buy another can of it as long as they make the old "Regular" formula, which has never failed me yet. I do know though, that the "Touch" method for determining when to place the two parts to be laminated is the most reliable method (for both the water based or solvent based cements). I don't rely on the Wait/dry time listed on the can, as there are too many variables, such as humidity, temperature, porosity of the material to be laminated, etc., that can have a considerable effect on the drying/wait time to make the contact.

[Steve Clardy]

Water base is a litle touchy. Sometimes three coats is necessary. And as above, humidity is a factor. With the regular stuff, oil base, once it's on, it's on. WIth waterbase, you can actually remove it before it sits. Just roll it down good, or, as I do, a 4" smooth square block and a mallet to get it pressed down, especially around the edges.

[Phil Phelps]

Tony, I do this for a living. I understand the problems of the solvent contact cement. Many times when I laminate EPS foam, I have to use a water base product. The best I've used is 3M Fastbond 30-NF. Usually bonds in 30 minutes. Finding it, in your area for non commercial use, may be a problem. But, I'm sure you can. The only word of caution with the 3M contact is you won't be able to reuse what ever you use to apply it. So, use an inexpensive brush and or roller cover.

[Phil Phelps]

Basically, for what it is, the job was a success, not something I would take $$ for. Messed up with the flush trim bit and gouged along two spots on the side.

Next time I'm gonna use the mineral based stuff and see if it sticks better.[/QUOTE]
When a roll of laminate hits the shop, it's layed flat immediatly on a table. I have some here in the shop that has curled over the years. You can use it, but usually under pressure. About gouging the flush trim, you know the roller bearing will follow what it comes in contact with. On plywood, you need to fill the voids. Edges go on first, and top last. However, when trimming, you usually have to clean off the roller bearing and re-trim. And for the professional touch, always file. Lamination takes longer than most think it should.

[Steve Clardy]

Tony, I do this for a living. I understand the problems of the solvent contact cement. Many times when I laminate EPS foam, I have to use a water base product. The best I've used is 3M Fastbond 30-NF. Usually bonds in 30 minutes. Finding it, in your area for non commercial use, may be a problem. But, I'm sure you can. The only word of caution with the 3M contact is you won't be able to reuse what ever you use to apply it. So, use an inexpensive brush and or roller cover.

Same as what I use. Couldn't remember the part#.
And a 4" foam brush, which gets throwed away.

[Byron Trantham]

I've done a lot of laminate work over th years and always used the mineral spirits type of cement. I have looked at the WB stuff but was not certain about its performance. This thread has convinced me to stay with the original stuff. Thanks for the feedback.

[Allen Bookout]

I have done some laminate work (none with water based cement) and am now going to make a router table that I want to have perfectly level. I am concerned about using contact cement as I feel that it is difficult to make the coating of cement non lumpy and level without an appropriate press and some heat, so I am considering trying two part epoxy since it is fluid and self leveling. It seems to me that also it would hold even better than contact cement. Anyone tried this approach or have any thoughts? Allen

[Byron Trantham]

I have done some laminate work (none with water based cement) and am now going to make a router table that I want to have perfectly level. I am concerned about using contact cement as I feel that it is difficult to make the coating of cement non lumpy and level without an appropriate press and some heat, so I am considering trying two part epoxy since it is fluid and self leveling. It seems to me that also it would hold even better than contact cement. Anyone tried this approach or have any thoughts? Allen

Allen, if you use a J roller I am pretty sure you will not experience any "humps". I used the stuff to build my router table and out feed table for my table saw without a hitch. I have also laminated several counter tops, some with gloss finish, which would scream any unevenness.